Attendances

[Proudtobeblue&white]

It comes back down to the "owners" I'm afraid. I fully accept the majority of ST holder's of this season would buy ST's next year if we nosedived down the league and suffered further relegation. We do have a "mean" figure, call it 8.000-12,000 in the Championship/Division 1. As a grown up professional, I feel the club are taking the piss. They are losing rupees hand over fist. They still are on these prices. If, as some say, we need to have 20,000 every home game to break even, the club is a million miles away (or 6,000 home fans?).

So why is Waggott so good? We have stability. I hate that word in our situation. We are only as stable as TM's tenure. But even then his tenure is only as sound as the Pune three decree.

I'm still very dubious as to our future. They do nothing to encourage my permanent return. Neither does Waggott.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Proudtobeblue&white

[OldEwoodBlue]

Josh,

    please can we have a poll ?

Do you want to increase attendances at Ewood ?

• yes
• no

 

debating ridiculous surcharges which may stop 1 additional fan or family attending, suggests either I have lost touch with sense and reality... or Biz and Chaddy are fake fans who just want to be “Mr Opposites”.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Franky

[JBiz]

Just now, Franky said:

Josh,

    please can we have a poll ?

Do you want to increase attendances at Ewood ?

• yes
• no

 

debating ridiculous surcharges which may stop 1 additional fan or family attending, suggests either I have lost touch with sense and reality... or Biz and Chaddy are fake fans who just want to be “Mr Opposites”.

Grow up. There’s purposely being outspoken and then there’s being allergic to basic bullshit.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

@blueboy3333 has repeatedly asked you for quotes backing up your claim as to Waggotts reasoning to the surcharge, which contrast Chestons reasoning from the fans forum. His reasoning which has correctly been pointed out by @Oldgregg86 as a load of rubbish.

In regards to your initial point, no one has mentioned anything about sudden demand. We are talking about marginal boosts to the attendance. Most may decide before the day of the game but that still leaves some that dont that may be more reluctant to attend with the price increase in place on matchdays.

Your posts have a frustrating inability to look at anyone in any position other than your own, as shown by the fact that you have rubbished a cash turnstile partly because you never buy tickets using cash.

Your desire to get the kids into the ground is again one that would suit you, that said I must say that it seems like a very logical step to improve attendances so fair play.

And Rovers themselves should do research towards why lapsed ST holder have left, the LT article was just a few carefully selected few paragraphs showing a few different reasons, the club needs far more than that.

 

I have blueboy3333 on the ignore list and he will be staying on there aswell. I have no desire to read his posts either. Paul on here has told you the reasons and aswell as Cheston aswell. 

The figures that the club has told the fans forum that we are getting about 800 people per game buying tickets after 12 pm. so that surcharge isn't a major problem but I can understand its a pain in the ass at time like Biz says. 

Most people paid by card for most things in life. I can understand Rovers having a turnstile for late tickets sales but then what the point of having a ticket office then? 

Why would it suit me to get kids in the ground? cos of my kids? if that's your implication then you are very wrong. My reasons to get kids in the ground so young is to get them hooked into the club and get them passion about Blackburn Rovers and football so they want to come back each and every game. I remember my childhood and me being hooked on Blackburn Rovers from 7 years old. I loved going to watch Blackburn Rovers every week back then and still do now.  Plus then parents would spend more in club shop and food/drink

1 hour ago, Biz said:

 

Its not a potential cost... it’s like gumboots said, years of the club being run like a joke. Yes, the 3 quid stuff is a bit of pain in the ass but it’s definitely being trotted out as an excuse when the reality many of those not currently attending are hurt by the “Danny murphy years”..

You ask for 40 quid a ticket for premier league games, you’ll see an increase. I agree we need creative ways to engorge regular numbers in the championship, but eliminating a 1pm-3pm charge is not the answer.

 

agreed

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The fact that it happened in 2 seperate areas of the ground is an even bigger scandal.

I dont understand why you are looking down your nose at those who are "trotting out excuses." The club needs to remove these "excuses" wherever possible because they surely realise that the fans they are targetting are not the hard core regulars, but that doesnt mean we should look down our noses at them as if they are expendable. 

Its not going to cause a sudden hike in attendances, no one has claimed that but all of these different things only have the potential to cause marginal increases. If removing any excuses could cause even the most modest of potential attendance increases then it shouldnt be dismissed.

I have suggested 2 or 3 things and each time you have turned badly on each idea like Kids season tickets for 1 pounds and weekend season tickets saying I've only suggested it cos it suit me when it has no affect on me alll but you shot do each idea. I did also said suggestion for the 2 games around Christmas have a family ticket which would be priced at 42 pounds for 2 adults and 2 kids for each game

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[tomphil]

11 minutes ago, Biz said:

Grow up. There’s purposely being outspoken and then there’s being allergic to basic bullshit.

Pardon me for asking but which one are you ?  ?

[OldEwoodBlue]

22 minutes ago, Biz said:

Grow up. There’s purposely being outspoken and then there’s being allergic to basic bullshit.

like I said. Mr opposite. Proven beyond doubt. 

[roversfan99]

38 minutes ago, Biz said:

RF - football clubs in 2018 compete by revenue. If you’re lucky enough to be owned by billionaires with their fingers on the pulse, you’ll probably be successful.

If you’re relying on a more moderate platform for some success- you need the locals to regular boost those coffers.

 I accept that others don’t see this as “their club” the same way as I do, but I simply won’t accept that the pricing is in anyway a barrier. 

The barrier is level of opposition and interest in division two. Pricing is an irrelevant part of it and this surcharge is the perfect excuse for those who simply cannot be arsed to support their club.

Until we are promoted, those missing thousand will not return. That is unless we have an attractive fixture in the cup.

The irony has never changed- if we had those fair weather fans regularly, we’d be in a much better position to invest in the team. The funny thing this summer, despite millions of debt - we’ve added more quality and invested...

If that can’t encourage those fans on the fence, a reduction of the 1pm-3pm cost is absolutely negligible.

I just dont understand your attitude at all. Every team has different types of fans, regardless of ownership, success, whatever, they have fans who are season ticket holders and go barring exceptional circumstances like you and I. But they also have those less interested, less loyal, however you want to put it. 

"Cannot be arsed" is such a strange thing to say. Supporting a football club should not be considered a chore or an obligation, nor does anyone have to justify attending. Its a very costly hobby so unless you are dedicated like you and I then I can see how it would be difficult to justify such an expense. Its up to the club to draw as many people in as it can. It can either turn its nose up at those who it feels make excuses not to go, who dont consider Rovers their primary hobby/a critical part of their life, or even those who have become less inclined to intend for whatever reason. Or it can empathise, and do what it can to get them in the ground, as when they are in they are just as needed as the regulars. I feel like the principle of a what I consider to unjustifed increase on match days (something youve also acknowledged is unnecessary if im not mistaken so im not really sure where the conflict of opinion lies!) may have a marginal impact, without proof either way, on drawing in more walk ons on match days. 

I appreciate that we are reliant on our revenue but I believe that some of the decisions made by Waggott including surcharges are potentially reducing attendances and therefore potentially revenue so im not sure how that comment is regulant.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I just dont understand your attitude at all. Every team has different types of fans, regardless of ownership, success, whatever, they have fans who are season ticket holders and go barring exceptional circumstances like you and I. But they also have those less interested, less loyal, however you want to put it. 

"Cannot be arsed" is such a strange thing to say. Supporting a football club should not be considered a chore or an obligation, nor does anyone have to justify attending. Its a very costly hobby so unless you are dedicated like you and I then I can see how it would be difficult to justify such an expense. Its up to the club to draw as many people in as it can. It can either turn its nose up at those who it feels make excuses not to go, who dont consider Rovers their primary hobby/a critical part of their life, or even those who have become less inclined to intend for whatever reason. Or it can empathise, and do what it can to get them in the ground, as when they are in they are just as needed as the regulars. I feel like the principle of a what I consider to unjustifed increase on match days (something youve also acknowledged is unnecessary if im not mistaken so im not really sure where the conflict of opinion lies!) may have a marginal impact, without proof either way, on drawing in more walk ons on match days. 

I appreciate that we are reliant on our revenue but I believe that some of the decisions made by Waggott including surcharges are potentially reducing attendances and therefore potentially revenue so im not sure how that comment is regulant.

Thing is - those fans you are labelling as “different types” had no problem being regular attendees or season ticket holders between 2005-10 so I’m not quite sure why you’d go so far to justify their stance now, especially on ticket cost. We’d agree all day on the multitude of anti Venkys reasons for turning your back but a 3 quid Saturday late comer fee?

Its basic bullshit.

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, Franky said:

like I said. Mr opposite. Proven beyond doubt. 

 

22 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Pardon me for asking but which one are you ?  ?

Must say, when the argument turns to the personality - it’s pretty much discussion over. 

 

[MCMC1875]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

RF - football clubs in 2018 compete by revenue. If you’re lucky enough to be owned by billionaires with their fingers on the pulse, you’ll probably be successful.

If you’re relying on a more moderate platform for some success- you need the locals to regular boost those coffers.

 I accept that others don’t see this as “their club” the same way as I do, but I simply won’t accept that the pricing is in anyway a barrier. 

The barrier is level of opposition and interest in division two. Pricing is an irrelevant part of it and this surcharge is the perfect excuse for those who simply cannot be arsed to support their club.

Until we are promoted, those missing thousand will not return. That is unless we have an attractive fixture in the cup.

The irony has never changed- if we had those fair weather fans regularly, we’d be in a much better position to invest in the team. The funny thing this summer, despite millions of debt - we’ve added more quality and invested...

If that can’t encourage those fans on the fence, a reduction of the 1pm-3pm cost is absolutely negligible.

£50 on season tickets not discouraging?

[MCMC1875]

3 hours ago, meadows said:

Bradford at home Christmas 87. People with pre-bought tickets were turned away.  

Why?

[tomphil]

29 minutes ago, Biz said:

 

Must say, when the argument turns to the personality - it’s pretty much discussion over. 

 

More touchy than normal tonight owd lad !

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, Biz said:

Thing is - those fans you are labelling as “different types” had no problem being regular attendees or season ticket holders between 2005-10 so I’m not quite sure why you’d go so far to justify their stance now, especially on ticket cost. We’d agree all day on the multitude of anti Venkys reasons for turning your back but a 3 quid Saturday late comer fee?

Its basic bullshit.

Im not justifying it in that it doesnt need to be justified. You get fairweather fans at every club, I dont understand why you seem to think thats a problem. Or something you are seemingly quite bitter about. Attendances vary on the success of a team. We still would like them fans to come back if possible.

I never said that hoardes of fans are claiming to not want to go because of the surcharge. Im saying its a potential and marginal additional barrier for those weighing up the idea of attending last minute to not go. One that doest need to be there and one that you dont agree with anyway!

[tomphil]

36 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

Why?

Thousands more walk ons than expected turned up at the last min, not sure why it wasn't all ticket in the first place though as was the norm back in the day when a big crowd was expected, many ST holders probably couldn't get in although i'm not sure there'd be many back then.

Riverside was closed for rebuilding which meant reduced capacity plus Bradford brought a few, another classic Rovers crowd balls up, that would've gone down well on here had this existed ?

Edited November 16, 2018 by tomphil

[blueboy3333]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

Sorry I don't like good news? I hope you're not serious with this remark? For years anyone with a positive comment to make on here about any aspect of the club has been shot down in flames. A few have tried to remain positive in the face of some of the darkest times the club has seen. I'm putting my view in here because I disagree with the views being expressed, that is, as you have requested, discussion.

Do I need to join in commenting on Charlie Mulgrew? No. I know it's positive, I'm delighted.

So there you go, you only comment on what you see as 'negative' posts and ignore the 'positives'. Like I said, you're the problem. You're no different to JAL, but from the opposite end of the spectrum.

[blueboy3333]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

. In terms of day to day running in the club's best interest administratively, financially and logistically to have a strong indication, through advance sales, of the numbers likely to attend. This can impact ticket office staffing, stewarding, concourse kiosks, food orders, minimise pre match queues at the ticket office etc. I'm sure with a bit if thought one could come up with more. Controlling these costs, avoiding food wastage etc. all contribute to a better bottom line. This is how the club will view the surcharge. Waggot for obvious reasons isn't going to publicly state this.

What has that got to do with a surcharge imposed 2 hours before the game? Are you saying that Rovers deliberately increase prices to deter potential last-minute attenders?

[SBlue]

“That £3 surcharge is a bit silly isn’t it? Not really a massive problem but, still.”

 

”Yeah”

 

 

AND THEN EVERYONE GOT ON WITH THEIR LIVES

Edited November 16, 2018 by S8 & Blue

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Paul said:

I'm sick to death of being held in a car park till the away support leaves. I think I'd probably pay for the service.

Stop moaning. The club's on the up. All I ever read on here is moaning. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by blueboy3333

[chaddyrovers]

50 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I just dont understand your attitude at all. Every team has different types of fans, regardless of ownership, success, whatever, they have fans who are season ticket holders and go barring exceptional circumstances like you and I. But they also have those less interested, less loyal, however you want to put it. 

"Cannot be arsed" is such a strange thing to say. Supporting a football club should not be considered a chore or an obligation, nor does anyone have to justify attending. Its a very costly hobby so unless you are dedicated like you and I then I can see how it would be difficult to justify such an expense. Its up to the club to draw as many people in as it can. It can either turn its nose up at those who it feels make excuses not to go, who dont consider Rovers their primary hobby/a critical part of their life, or even those who have become less inclined to intend for whatever reason. Or it can empathise, and do what it can to get them in the ground, as when they are in they are just as needed as the regulars. I feel like the principle of a what I consider to unjustifed increase on match days (something youve also acknowledged is unnecessary if im not mistaken so im not really sure where the conflict of opinion lies!) may have a marginal impact, without proof either way, on drawing in more walk ons on match days. 

I appreciate that we are reliant on our revenue but I believe that some of the decisions made by Waggott including surcharges are potentially reducing attendances and therefore potentially revenue so im not sure how that comment is regulant.

very costly hobby? surely this depending on a number of different factors including what you do family and leisure wide plus your job, job wage and private life?

Going to Ewood every season is the same cost as going to cinema every month to watch a movie with the missus. I can spend 40 pounds a time there or going to comedy night on a monthly basis. 

 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Im not justifying it in that it doesnt need to be justified. You get fairweather fans at every club, I dont understand why you seem to think thats a problem. Or something you are seemingly quite bitter about. Attendances vary on the success of a team. We still would like them fans to come back if possible.

I never said that hoardes of fans are claiming to not want to go because of the surcharge. Im saying its a potential and marginal additional barrier for those weighing up the idea of attending last minute to not go. One that doest need to be there and one that you dont agree with anyway!

well at the minute we have a team and manager who are giving everything at this club and showing more desire and passion than the past few years. We are in the mix for possible playoff challenge and considering where this club was when Mowbray was appointed here as manager we are very much a different club and having a team of players who work hard and play with heart on the sleeve. 

You keep going on the surcharge but no idea to get fans back whilst I have suggested 3 ideas and you shot 2 of them down, can I ask why? Plus we have roughly 800 fans each time who buy tickets after 12pm so the surcharge isn't much of a factor surely you would agree. 

[blueboy3333]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

I was asked for reasons why the club imposes a surcharge. Of course fans won't be turned away and would pay more. What could happen though is there would be queues at the TO, people might miss kick off,  increased demand at kiosks might mean fans can't get served or get food/drink etc. Should this situation occur I think we might then see complaints about how the club is unprepared for large numbers, I missed ten minutes etc. I couldn't get a coffee. I think it's a reasonable assumption to assume those are potential complaints.

If the club has a very strong indication of the numbers attending these potential issues can be controlled through staffing etc. By the same token the club can avoid additional costs by not being over-staffed when those 2000 chose not to turn up.

There may also be a safety aspect, I simply do not know. I can though appreciate the club may be legally required to provide "x" number of stewards etc. per 100 fans or other given number.

Why don't PNE impose the surcharge then? Are the issues you raise specific only to Rovers?

 

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

I agree we need creative ways to engorge regular numbers in the championship, but eliminating a 1pm-3pm charge is not the answer.

 

Why?

You're confusing your opinion with fact without anything to back it up. 

Good luck trying to engorge the regulars though?

[gumboots]

3 hours ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

My gripe is being turfed out of the BE upper without consultation, not wanting to sit in the new family stand as I don't like the position, ditto Riverside, and the JW is too expensive in this league. I will pick and choose the odd game as a result. Waggott has missed tricks. Big time.

BTW, I have never been courted by the club, despite being a supporter for forty years plus, and they have my text/email/mobile number.

I wrote to the club when this happened and received a very shirty reply informing me that I had no right to have been sitting there for years as I had no under 16s with me. The club had happily taken my money for years after my youngest turned 16 and there had never been any issues as the BBE upper was never full so we weren't depriving anyone of a seat. The tone of the letter was so dismissive of my feelings that I wouldn't have set foot in Ewood that season if they'd offered me free tickets. I'm not saying they weren't well within their rights to ask me to sit elsewhere but there are ways of doing it that make customers feel valued and not like something the cat brought in. 

Making people feel welcome, like you matter, is important in any business. Dismissing their concerns, making them feel like they are an irrelevance is not good business sense. Things like charging extra for late purchase of tickets are just another way of making people less bothered about attending.

I don't expect concessions from the club or to be wooed by them but nor do I expect to be made to feel irrelevant 

[MCMC1875]

Well Neal you started a good thread there lad. Regards to Nidge.

[MCMC1875]

21 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I wrote to the club when this happened and received a very shirty reply informing me that I had no right to have been sitting there for years as I had no under 16s with me. The club had happily taken my money for years after my youngest turned 16 and there had never been any issues as the BBE upper was never full so we weren't depriving anyone of a seat. The tone of the letter was so dismissive of my feelings that I wouldn't have set foot in Ewood that season if they'd offered me free tickets. I'm not saying they weren't well within their rights to ask me to sit elsewhere but there are ways of doing it that make customers feel valued and not like something the cat brought in. 

Making people feel welcome, like you matter, is important in any business. Dismissing their concerns, making them feel like they are an irrelevance is not good business sense. Things like charging extra for late purchase of tickets are just another way of making people less bothered about attending.

I don't expect concessions from the club or to be wooed by them but nor do I expect to be made to feel irrelevant 

The general treatment of supporters has gone down the pan since John Williams, Tom Finn and Martin Goodman left.

[MCMC1875]

Just now, renrag said:

Some season ticket holders who I regularly stood with were locked out. One of them never went on Ewood again.

They had just signed Steve Archibold, who was making his debut.

Back to the subject. What some don't appreciate is that going to football for many is purely habit and, within reason, anything that could cause fans to break that habit should be avoided. After the events of 1960, no club should appreciate that more than Rovers. Not only were the disgruntled alienated but, in many instances, their children were never taken to experience the emotions of being a football fan and it took 30 years to recover the lot numbers

Remember now, Archibald and Ardiles debut. Huge queues. Billinge End Blue was last in one BBE turnstile before it shut. Exciting days.