Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[wilsdenrover]

12 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Classic Venky’s- get the closest to the play offs since we were relegated from the PL, with a good manager, then pull the funding.

Imagine what JDT could have done with the funding/players TM had…

Player’s from 20/21…

                         Kaminski

JRC.        Lenihan.     Ayala.         Giles

                 Buckley    Rothwell

Dolan                  Elliott                Brereton

                        Armstrong

 

Passing out from the back might still have been sketchy!

 

 

Edited January 2 by wilsdenrover

[NeilInBristol]

Anyone manage to read the recent JDT quotes in LT ?

[tomphil]

So time for a debate....

1 win in how many ?

Yet another player who has been a steady performer and often a rock at time despite his topsy turver form is now out the door because he doesn't fit JDTs 'style'.

Kaminsky a great goal keeper for us and now starring for Luton suddenly looked ropey under JDT's 'style'.

Buckley, showing green shoots under Mowbray and becoming a decent 1st team squad member struggles with JDT's 'style' and is loaned out, only coming back through injury.

Hirst a goal scoring prospect from league 1 now banging them in and getting assists as a cnetre fwd at 2nd placed Ipswich clearly couldn't hack this style here.

Ennis , poor signing but now fit doesn't appear to fit the style.

There are many more and although iv'e been mostly a defender of him i'm now very skeptical that he isn't really a big part of the issues here now. We just don't have the money to rebuild the team in how he wants to play yet persist with it and instead start to replace everyone in it with a younger cheaper downgrade and try and coach them into this style so they are supposedly worth more money.

Must say i'm not feeling it anymore and when he fires off what is he going to leave us with ?

[wilsdenrover]

16 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So time for a debate....

1 win in how many ?

Yet another player who has been a steady performer and often a rock at time despite his topsy turver form is now out the door because he doesn't fit JDTs 'style'.

Kaminsky a great goal keeper for us and now starring for Luton suddenly looked ropey under JDT's 'style'.

Buckley, showing green shoots under Mowbray and becoming a decent 1st team squad member struggles with JDT's 'style' and is loaned out, only coming back through injury.

Hirst a goal scoring prospect from league 1 now banging them in and getting assists as a cnetre fwd at 2nd placed Ipswich clearly couldn't hack this style here.

Ennis , poor signing but now fit doesn't appear to fit the style.

There are many more and although iv'e been mostly a defender of him i'm now very skeptical that he isn't really a big part of the issues here now. We just don't have the money to rebuild the team in how he wants to play yet persist with it and instead start to replace everyone in it with a younger cheaper downgrade and try and coach them into this style so they are supposedly worth more money.

Must say i'm not feeling it anymore and when he fires off what is he going to leave us with ?

I’m still just about in the keep him club but the problem as I see it is this.

He tries to get players to do what he thinks they should be able to do rather than what they actually can do.

It’s ‘this is my style and you must fit into’ rather than ‘this is what you can do and I’ll adjust my style accordingly’

In terms of the bit I’ve emboldened, subject to no further outgoings, I think we’d be left with the basis of a good team who need to play a slightly different way.

[belfast_rover]

18 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So time for a debate....

1 win in how many ?

Yet another player who has been a steady performer and often a rock at time despite his topsy turver form is now out the door because he doesn't fit JDTs 'style'.

Kaminsky a great goal keeper for us and now starring for Luton suddenly looked ropey under JDT's 'style'.

Buckley, showing green shoots under Mowbray and becoming a decent 1st team squad member struggles with JDT's 'style' and is loaned out, only coming back through injury.

Hirst a goal scoring prospect from league 1 now banging them in and getting assists as a cnetre fwd at 2nd placed Ipswich clearly couldn't hack this style here.

Ennis , poor signing but now fit doesn't appear to fit the style.

There are many more and although iv'e been mostly a defender of him i'm now very skeptical that he isn't really a big part of the issues here now. We just don't have the money to rebuild the team in how he wants to play yet persist with it and instead start to replace everyone in it with a younger cheaper downgrade and try and coach them into this style so they are supposedly worth more money.

Must say i'm not feeling it anymore and when he fires off what is he going to leave us with ?

You fundamentally misunderstand JDT's brief.

 

He has been given the job to manufacture saleable assets and avoid relegation, not necessarily to win football matches.  It is clear he has little say in transfers, responsibility there appears to lie with the director of football who appears to be in a similar position in that the club has directed him to reduce the wage budget as far as possible and maintain a playing staff that can be sold for profit.

The "style" is a direct result of this as Premier League clubs want to be paying for technically proficient prospects rather than seasoned championship battlers.

Perhaps this is a reaction to the money hemorrhaged on Rothwell, Brereton-Díaz, Lenihan - even Dack.  Perhaps it's necessitated by Venkys financial position.  Perhaps it's both.  But it's clear that the thinking at the club currently is that promotion is too unlikely to bet the farm, and so this is the model for long term sustainability.

I'm not convinced it is going to work (and certainly doesn't seem to be working currently) but it seems pretty clear JDT is working with a player development focus rather than a "win at all costs" mentality.

[Mattyblue]

He’s leaving ‘because he doesn’t fit JDT’s style’? Was that why Buckley randomly went on loan in a tiny squad too?

His presser will be interesting.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, belfast_rover said:

You fundamentally misunderstand JDT's brief.

 

He has been given the job to manufacture saleable assets and avoid relegation, not necessarily to win football matches.  It is clear he has little say in transfers, responsibility there appears to lie with the director of football who appears to be in a similar position in that the club has directed him to reduce the wage budget as far as possible and maintain a playing staff that can be sold for profit.

The "style" is a direct result of this as Premier League clubs want to be paying for technically proficient prospects rather than seasoned championship battlers.

Perhaps this is a reaction to the money hemorrhaged on Rothwell, Brereton-Díaz, Lenihan - even Dack.  Perhaps it's necessitated by Venkys financial position.  Perhaps it's both.  But it's clear that the thinking at the club currently is that promotion is too unlikely to bet the farm, and so this is the model for long term sustainability.

I'm not convinced it is going to work (and certainly doesn't seem to be working currently) but it seems pretty clear JDT is working with a player development focus rather than a "win at all costs" mentality.

Good post. JDT stated what his brief was the other day in the press, basically to develop players in a way that fits the 'style' of PL teams. 

[Mattyblue]

This club no longer has any aspirations other than being a development academy, it just happens that one of the development teams plays in the senior leagues.… but they have the brass neck to charge £400-£500+ for a ST to watch them.

Edited January 5 by Mattyblue

[Wheelton Blue]

Genuine question and one asked in ignorance of the supposed 'style' of PL teams, as I don't watch PL games...

Which PL teams actually play in the same style as what Tomasson is trying to do? IMO, this dictates/defines our 'customer base' for those players who we develop in said style.

ie what PL clubs will potentally buy our players?

[TugaysMarlboro]

1 minute ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Genuine question and one asked in ignorance of the supposed 'style' of PL teams, as I don't watch PL games...

Which PL teams actually play in the same style as what Tomasson is trying to do? IMO, this dictates/defines our 'customer base' for those players who we develop in said style.

ie what PL clubs will potentally buy our players?

Brighton, ironically.

But they do it better than us.

[Wheelton Blue]

13 minutes ago, TugaysMarlboro said:

Brighton, ironically.

But they do it better than us.

So our supposed playing style and approach to player development/trading is geared towards ultimately selling players to the likes of Brighton & Hove Albion?

That's been well thought through then...

 

[TugaysMarlboro]

6 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

So our supposed playing style and approach to player development/trading is geared towards ultimately selling players to the likes of Brighton & Hove Albion?

That's been well thought through then...

 

There are probably other teams. I just watched Brighton against West Ham the other day and they play similar to how we (try) to play.

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

This club no longer has any aspirations other than being a development academy, it just happens that one of the development teams plays in the senior leagues.… but they have the brass neck to charge £400-£500+ for a ST to watch them.

They will definitely be selling one less next season.

Enough is enough.

[belfast_rover]

I'd chuck Brentford, Bournemouth, Wolves, Burnley and Fulham into that bracket too - as well as all three relegated clubs from last season currently in the championship (at least two of which seem. Decent punt for promotion, possibly in place of the more 'robust' football of Sheffield United and Luton Town).

[steved]

27 minutes ago, martonrover said:

They will definitely be selling one less next season.

Enough is enough.

Make that two.  Had enough!

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, belfast_rover said:

You fundamentally misunderstand JDT's brief.

 

He has been given the job to manufacture saleable assets and avoid relegation, not necessarily to win football matches.  It is clear he has little say in transfers, responsibility there appears to lie with the director of football who appears to be in a similar position in that the club has directed him to reduce the wage budget as far as possible and maintain a playing staff that can be sold for profit.

The "style" is a direct result of this as Premier League clubs want to be paying for technically proficient prospects rather than seasoned championship battlers.

Perhaps this is a reaction to the money hemorrhaged on Rothwell, Brereton-Díaz, Lenihan - even Dack.  Perhaps it's necessitated by Venkys financial position.  Perhaps it's both.  But it's clear that the thinking at the club currently is that promotion is too unlikely to bet the farm, and so this is the model for long term sustainability.

I'm not convinced it is going to work (and certainly doesn't seem to be working currently) but it seems pretty clear JDT is working with a player development focus rather than a "win at all costs" mentality.

I don't misunderstand anything at all.

My issue is that although the project he was bullshitted into changed in summer to the one you mention if we are to stay in this league and provide a higher platform for player development then some adaptions on the pitch are desperately needed.

There is no value created, other than the odd isolated case, in a team at the bottom of the division that can't win nor defend and even less value to be created in league 1. There has to be a 'win some' mentality instead of win at all cost mentality and actualy what we've seen many times this season is a try and win at all cost mentality on the pitch.

So i'd politely suggest it's you misunderstanding what JDT has actually been trying to do.

He has despite the budget rug being pulled from under him just carried on trying to move 'his' idealistic project forwards with a weaker squad and players not equipped enough to do it. That's partly on him imo and what he has to be held to account for as all the club have said is stay up, give youth mins and increase value that way.

At least 50% of the style of football we try and play continually is down to him not his bosses. that's the debate here.

[Gav]

On 03/01/2024 at 15:42, NeilInBristol said:

Anyone manage to read the recent JDT quotes in LT ?

I read his quote on the day he joined us and it mentioned making us "A sustainable Premiership Club".

I'm just not seeing it? 🙄

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

So our supposed playing style and approach to player development/trading is geared towards ultimately selling players to the likes of Brighton & Hove Albion?

That's been well thought through then...

 

I think what our lot seem to be replicating is Swansea and they've gone nowhere for years after flattering to deceive briefly.

Their fans are also fobbed of with 'we are doing things the right way' and to trust the process etc

[wilsdenrover]

24 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I think what our lot seem to be replicating is Swansea and they've gone nowhere for years after flattering to deceive briefly.

Their fans are also fobbed of with 'we are doing things the right way' and to trust the process etc

Russell Martin’s move to Southampton is showing that ‘the right way’ takes an awful lot of money. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Russell Martin’s move to Southampton is showing that ‘the right way’ takes an awful lot of money. 

It always did.

[K-Hod]

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

They will definitely be selling one less next season.

Enough is enough.

I can’t be assed any more either. I’ve had a season ticket over 30 years.

Starting to wonder what the point of us is.

[martonrover]

27 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I can’t be assed any more either. I’ve had a season ticket over 30 years.

Starting to wonder what the point of us is.

There isn't any under these owners.

[MarkBRFC]

32 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I can’t be assed any more either. I’ve had a season ticket over 30 years.

Starting to wonder what the point of us is.

It's draining isn't it.

I'm feeling similar, only once in over 30 years have I not had a ST and that was when Coyle took over as I genuinely thought someone was taking the piss out of me then, I'm also 60 miles away and miss enough games anyway due to other commitments.

Apart from away days and having cracking days out with mates regardless of the football the only thing keeping me on board really is my 13 year old lad who is Rovers obsessed, I can't have him drifting off and becoming a plastic scouser or manc so feel l need to keep him going to Ewood.

[metalrover]

This one sums up how i am feeling right now...

Edited January 5 by metalrover

[K-Hod]

37 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

It's draining isn't it.

I'm feeling similar, only once in over 30 years have I not had a ST and that was when Coyle took over as I genuinely thought someone was taking the piss out of me then, I'm also 60 miles away and miss enough games anyway due to other commitments.

Apart from away days and having cracking days out with mates regardless of the football the only thing keeping me on board really is my 13 year old lad who is Rovers obsessed, I can't have him drifting off and becoming a plastic scouser or manc so feel l need to keep him going to Ewood.

Yep, that was the only season I didn’t renew either! I only live 10 miles away, but I’d honestly rather put my money to something they had a bit of purpose or a raison d’etre, like!