Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[Upside Down]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Well, they have always paid the bills....What about the agent free for all, refusal to listen to people who cared, so many terrible decisions, low grade appointments, interfering with on field matters, dumbing down and the slow lingering death...and loss of support??!!

Fck off, Kieron, do some proper research!

For a so called expert he's always struck me as someone who doesn't know what the fuck he's on about.

He was one peddling the bullshit about them funding the club by borrowing against land. Total fucking bollocks.

Hopefully this massive tax bill is real and it doesn't get paid.

Come on HMRC, do your fucking job and send the winding up order. Don't fuck about.

[Hasta]

The odds on Adam Wharton not playing on Monday are dropping rapidly here.

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

This isn’t absolute gospel, just my understanding of the situation, and I’m no expert. However there is possibly some info that isn’t really widely acknowledged or maybe known:

- The investigations started back in 2021, initially there were no restrictions on them moving money out of India as the RBI had no objections. This changed in August 2022, at which point it became a requirement that any company under investigation required a No Objection Certificate  (NOC) agreed by the entity doing the investigation - the Enforcement Directorate in this case

- We received the NOC for remittances in 2022

- We applied for another on 17th January 2023 which was rejected on 6th March, and a further rejection on the 31st March (for the amount of £26 million). This was rejected on the basis of the “Pedancy of investigation”. After this rejection Venky’s legal team also requested a quick resolution to the ED investigation

- On the 27th April 2023 Venky’s received correspondence from HMRC threatening a winding up order.

- On 24th May Venky’s received a letter from BRFC advising them of the potential consequences of not receiving immediate payments (presumably administration)

- On 23rd June Venky’s were granted permission to transfer £3.5 million based on the potential consequences outlined in the above letter. They were instructed that an equal amount had to be set aside as a guarantee as any future action taken by the ED would be a financial penalty (so presumably they don’t want Venky’s sending over money then pleading poverty if/when they get a fine)

- On 16th August the ED reported that their investigation would be completed within 15 days

- On 31st October Venky’s submitted another application for a NOC in which they highlighted the reason for these funds. As we know, this was allowed with some conditions:

   A further guarantee of an equivalent sum

   Auditors at club have 3 working days to file   an End use Certificate (this certifies club are the end user of these funds and they won’t be transferred elsewhere)

The club must provide bank statements to prove these payments were made

 

- In this hearing it was outlined that club activities were not under suspicion, BUT the investigation was only at a “nascent stage”. This is very much contrary to what was reported on August 16th, and suggests these issues could run and run. It also suggests club finances will come under the microscope at some point

- Wording suggests that future remittances will be allowed, with the same caveats attached, but we’d still need to apply for the NOC, and this would likely not be granted if the club becomes under investigation

 

So while the money remitted has to be used for the specified purpose, it’s not entirely accurate to state Rovers can’t spend anything that hasn’t had court approval. They don’t care about the minutia of Rovers accounts (yet!), and funds generated by the club can be used for activities outside the scope of the court document (which covered Wages, tax, VAT, loan repayments, utilities and agents fees). So our fixture against Chelsea probably covered a chunk of the O’Riordan fee.

This latest round of funding we went for was likely to cover the same expenses from January til the end of the season. I expect there will be some funds available to cover some of those expenses, generated by TV payments, ticket sales, league payments etc. whether that lasts til the hearing in March, we will have to see. It almost certainly means that our very modest transfer budget has disappeared and we will be in another period of extreme austerity. I’m waiting for the announcement that I can’t sit in the Riverside on Monday.

So we will probably muddle through until the next date in March, with threats of winding up orders and missed payments, unless it gets moved again. Our transfer window plans are of no interest to Indian Courts who have cancelled and delayed several hearings already this year. Maybe there is some sort of contingency (player sale, short term loan). A further delay might be catastrophic though. Either way, this situation has become farcical and can’t continue much longer.

A very well laid out and helpful post. Thanks, Miller.

While it is a bleak situation overall, what gives me hope is that there is a chance that the Court over there might look into the club's finances at some point. That could be the moment that a lot of us have been waiting for.

I would like to think there is a thought over there to find out what this £200m+ that has been sent over the years has been spent on, especially when the club is in a worse state than when they found it. It hasn't got to that stage of the investigation yet, but it could do. I truly hope it does.

If I've got it right, the current situation means that they in effect have to release double the funds via the Indian Court, because they have to provide the authorities with an equivalent guarantee.

If it's £20m being sent to Rovers, they have to put £20m aside for the ED at the same time, meaning it's costing them £40m in total. £25m being sent to Rovers means it's £25m for the ED too, making it £50m they have to put up in total.

This scenario could go on for a long while. Surely this has to become untenable for them at some stage, despite however wealthy they may be.

[BarryMaguire]

39 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

?

Being sarcastic 🙄

[lraC]

21 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

A very well laid out and helpful post. Thanks, Miller.

While it is a bleak situation overall, what gives me hope is that there is a chance that the Court over there might look into the club's finances at some point. That could be the moment that a lot of us have been waiting for.

I would like to think there is a thought over there to find out what this £200m+ that has been sent over the years has been spent on, especially when the club is in a worse state than when they found it. It hasn't got to that stage of the investigation yet, but it could do. I truly hope it does.

If I've got it right, the current situation means that they in effect have to release double the funds via the Indian Court, because they have to provide the authorities with an equivalent guarantee.

If it's £20m being sent to Rovers, they have to put £20m aside for the ED at the same time, meaning it's costing them £40m in total. £25m being sent to Rovers means it's £25m for the ED too, making it £50m they have to put up in total.

This scenario could go on for a long while. Surely this has to become untenable for them at some stage, despite however wealthy they may be.

Your post is why I firmly believe they are covering something up.

It is a Robert Maxwell scenario robbing the pension fund to buy Oxford.

There is no way they would agree to go to court to not only get permission to throw £20 million a year away, but also stump up double that with the required bond now too. 

[Upside Down]

3 minutes ago, lraC said:

Your post is why I firmly believe they are covering something up.

It is a Robert Maxwell scenario robbing the pension fund to buy Oxford.

There is no way they would agree to go to court to not only get permission to throw £20 million a year away, but also stump up double that with the required bond now too. 

From day one there was shady things going on around here.

[bazza]

1 hour ago, BarryMaguire said:

This just gets better and better....

 

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

?

Dingle?

[BarryMaguire]

3 minutes ago, bazza said:

 

Dingle?

 

[bazza]

2 minutes ago, BarryMaguire said:

 

No!!  Really???  (Burnistoun) 😂

[Andy]

It's hard to see how it isn't going to end in disaster, whatever happens from here.

What an absolute shitshow.

[47er]

We'v  wondered from the start, or at least from when we were relegated, why Venkys bother with us and on't let go.

That they send money over here, ostensibly to fund Rovers and it goes somewhere else is as good as explanation as we could get imo.

[SuperBrfc]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

For a so called expert he's always struck me as someone who doesn't know what the fuck he's on about.

He was one peddling the bullshit about them funding the club by borrowing against land. Total fucking bollocks.

Hopefully this massive tax bill is real and it doesn't get paid.

Come on HMRC, do your fucking job and send the winding up order. Don't fuck about.

A quick search shows that an SEM connected agent is a friend of that podcast, even appearing on it a few times.

Notice in that audio clip above how the host spouts the company line about the owners being "so generous", how he praises them for paying the bills and says Rovers would be struggling without that money.

Sounds very much like the spiel the car salesman comes out with too. All of the propaganda out there follows the same theme.

Another thing in that clip...one of them mentions that when the club needs funds, all it takes is one phone call to the owners and the funds arrive within 24 hours.

Sounds very much like the "they never refuse to sign a cheque" malarkey to me. They are being fed this guff from somewhere. We just need to find out why.

[tomphil]

Iv'e been saying for years on here, often to tinfoil accusations, that i firmly believe a bit of it goes elsewhere and that's why they are happy to plod on playing with the club.

To Indian tax authorities looking from outside 200 million for seemingly zero return nor prospering or growing of the football club, large income from sponsorship, players sales often turned down. Players leaving for nothing after investing in them, etc.

Well it could look like a form of money laundering couldn't it that's why it's not before time they should want to know where every penny has gone.

Not that i think they are that stupid but i remain convinced there was always a bit more to it than we'll ever know.

Edited January 25 by tomphil

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

From day one there was shady things going on around here.

Wasn't it David Whelan who said 'the Blackburn takeover doesn't look right ' ?

[BigUts]

13 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Wasn't it David Whelan who said 'the Blackburn takeover doesn't look right ' ?

Ferguson wasn't it?

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Wasn't it David Whelan who said 'the Blackburn takeover doesn't look right ' ?

And Ferguson and numerous others.

I'll never forget the looks on the faces of the panel for that game at Spurs under Kean.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, BigUts said:

Ferguson wasn't it?

Whelan said it out loud more than once he knew his old mate would be spinning in his grave.

[BigUts]

11 minutes ago, tomphil said:

And Ferguson and numerous others.

I'll never forget the looks on the faces of the panel for that game at Spurs under Kean.

I remember watching it with a former pal who is a PNE fan. Even he was aghast

[Mike E]

7 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Scan the QR 👍

Open image in new tab. Hold press. ‘Google image search’ (searches for the QR code), open website.

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Iv'e been saying for years on here, often to tinfoil accusations, that i firmly believe a bit of it goes elsewhere and that's why they are happy to plod on playing with the club.

To Indian tax authorities looking from outside 200 million for seemingly zero return nor prospering or growing of the football club, large income from sponsorship, players sales often turned down. Players leaving for nothing after investing in them, etc.

Well it could look like a form of money laundering couldn't it that's why it's not before time they should want to know where every penny has gone.

Not that i think they are that stupid but i remain convinced there was always a bit more to it than we'll ever know.

Well they are under investigation for financial fraud by a government agency that specifically looks at money laundering.

But I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

[tomphil]

18 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Well they are under investigation for financial fraud by a government agency that specifically looks at money laundering.

But I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

Well it's proven they were playing fast and loose with their company money via the club in the past but like playing with the club it was probably just spoilt rich kids arrogance.

My interest would be what the hell was going on with some of the money they were pumping in whilst it was passing through the hands of assorted agents, managers, agencies and the like.  Ain't no way in hell some of that lot weren't up to something and big Barry is the family link to them.

Had some very slippery mates that lad.

[Dan]

Will we ever see justice against that snake Anderson? Remember his evil eyes all welling up on Sky? 
 

I want him and Kean fully exposed. I want an apology from the Premier league and the Walker ‘Trust’ for their part. I want retribution. 
 

I want the full thing laid bare from start to finish. Let’s sell the rights to Netflix/Disney/Amazon. 
 

Maybe Barry and Anderson in a prison cell would do though… 

[Dan]

6 hours ago, Bethnal said:

Seem to remember wording that the funds had to be sent in line with “contractual obligations” meaning parent company to BRFC & Athletic as an entity. So the court delay puts them in breach, I understand, although would stand to be corrected entirely.

Like to think I have a good nose for when I’m about to get fucked and believe me, my nose is twitching.

Only thing that springs to mind is an extremely factual, full-page ad in the most-read newspaper(s) in India, in English and regional dialects, outlining the situation, signed on behalf of concerned fans. That paid media coverage should lead to a lot of earned media coverage and - so long as it remains factual - avoid whatever the libel laws are over there.

There are enough of us here to work towards crowdfunding it and to put together the message itself.

Protests don’t echo in India. We need to fight this on their own patch.

There must be some Indian journalists that have a chip on their shoulders regarding Venky’s. Those horrible cunts must have pissed plenty of people off down the years. 
 

 

[Devon Rover]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

Will we ever see justice against that snake Anderson? Remember his evil eyes all welling up on Sky? 
 

I want him and Kean fully exposed. I want an apology from the Premier league and the Walker ‘Trust’ for their part. I want retribution. 
 

I want the full thing laid bare from start to finish. Let’s sell the rights to Netflix/Disney/Amazon. 
 

Maybe Barry and Anderson in a prison cell would do though… 

All those things would be wonderful, but none are likely to happen.

I'd settle for Venkys to be gone from Rovers, forever. I feel like I'd cry with joy and relief if just that were to happen.

[Upside Down]

15 minutes ago, Devon Rover said:

All those things would be wonderful, but none are likely to happen.

I'd settle for Venkys to be gone from Rovers, forever. I feel like I'd cry with joy and relief if just that were to happen.

I'd celebrate like we'd just won the league.

Remember when we did that? Only six other teams have done it since.