Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[Herbie6590]

3 hours ago, rob_of_the_rovers said:

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

Calculating allowable losses isn’t simply a case of adding up the P&L figures - these numbers are in effect the absolute worst case scenario.

Certain expenditure is “allowable” & so can be deducted from the P&L figures e.g. infrastructure, academy, women’s team etc

[ABBEY]

4 hours ago, lraC said:

As I posted yesterday, in response Chaddy's post about what he thinks the summer transfer, spend will be, there is no guarantee that the court hearing is a forgone conclusion.

The statements in the accounts for previous years, made by the owners about them funding the club, can simply no longer be made.

Waggott stated to my face during a meeting with him in November, that since a precedent had already been set, then the funding was going to be agreed in February when the court hearing take place.

As we now all know, it did not take place then, or again in March and I have a suspicious feeling that they are in for a surprise in August too.

We are very close to the edge in my view and panic borrowing in the form of expensive bridging finance form the likes of Crossbaron, makes me even more concerned about the future of the club.

I wouldn't trust that rat if he told me, we , sorry pre maggot that we had won the league in 95. 

Why anyone would sit down and be courteous to that fat maggot turd is beyond me. 

[lraC]

2 hours ago, ABBEY said:

I wouldn't trust that rat if he told me, we , sorry pre maggot that we had won the league in 95. 

Why anyone would sit down and be courteous to that fat maggot turd is beyond me. 

I wasn’t courteous for sure.

[Upside Down]

The Fat Cunt-Roller

[philipl]

13 hours ago, Bohinen1983 said:

The wages baffle me..   How on earth, with the squad we have, are we paying so much in wages..

I thought we'd off-loaded all of our 'high earners'..  

The accounts are for 22/23

[Bohinen1983]

9 hours ago, philipl said:

The accounts are for 22/23

Ahh, so they're much lower now..  I guess the kick in the balls is, as a general rule of thumb, you finish around what you spend on wages..    

Football is an entertainment business..  If you're successful more people come to watch..   Speculate to accumulate..

Conversely, if you cut you're generally going to get worse, play worse football and finish lower.  You then get fewer fans, less revenue..  So then what? Make more cuts?  If you follow this trajectory it's a path to oblivion in football.. Make cuts, get worse, finish lower, less fans, make more cuts, ad infinitum.  

The club needs a fresh start, a clean slate,

[JHRover]

25 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

Ahh, so they're much lower now..  I guess the kick in the balls is, as a general rule of thumb, you finish around what you spend on wages..    

Football is an entertainment business..  If you're successful more people come to watch..   Speculate to accumulate..

Conversely, if you cut you're generally going to get worse, play worse football and finish lower.  You then get fewer fans, less revenue..  So then what? Make more cuts?  If you follow this trajectory it's a path to oblivion in football.. Make cuts, get worse, finish lower, less fans, make more cuts, ad infinitum.  

The club needs a fresh start, a clean slate,

Precisely. Immediate financial considerations are only one component of running a football club, yet it seems Waggott and the rest down there have that as their one and only remit.

There are many other factors that have to be balanced with a desire to cut costs, save money, reduce owner input.

You have to invest. Invest means spending above and beyond the bare minimum essentials. Invest means trying to grow and improve, progress, get better. Invest isn't asking the owners to pay the wages each month or for a bag of grass seed so we can get the pitch ready for pre-season.

You have to try and get better. If you don't you get worse, and with that, as you rightly say, comes less income and a vicious circle of decline.

Waggott may be perfectly competent at cutting costs, saving the owners money and doing the job they want him to do. Unfortunately for BRFC and any other professional sports club there is so, so, so much more to it than cutting costs and saving money.

As we teeter on the brink of a return to the 3rd division and a further drop off in already poor attendances maybe that message will get through. Then again maybe not.

Edited April 10 by JHRover

[Mercer]

No surprises to me with these accounts.  IMO, they just confirm what a shambolically run business we are.

If, and it's a bloody big if, the Raos sold the club (outside an insolvency situation), I would love to be part of the due diligence  process on behalf of a buyer - God knows what may be hidden away.  It is for this reason that I very much doubt the Raos will sell and only an insolvency situation will see us free from their clutches.

I take Waggot's words on the Raos' funding guarantee with a pinch of salt - IMO, he has neither integrity nor credibility.

I think August will see Rovers and the Raos meet their Waterloo as I suspect there is very likely more to the Indian court business than meets the eye.

 

Edited April 10 by Mercer

[Mattyblue]

You’ve said that about twenty times.

August will come and go and they will still be in situ (possibly with accompanying statement #100 outlining their unwavering commitment).

Edited April 10 by Mattyblue

[lraC]

45 minutes ago, Mercer said:

No surprises to me with these accounts.  IMO, they just confirm what a shambolically run business we are.

If, and it's a bloody big if, the Raos sold the club (outside an insolvency situation), I would love to be part of the due diligence  process on behalf of a buyer - God knows what may be hidden away.  It is for this reason that I very much doubt the Raos will sell and only an insolvency situation will see us free from their clutches.

I take Waggot's words on the Raos' funding guarantee with a pinch of salt - IMO, he has neither integrity nor credibility.

I think August will see Rovers and the Raos meet their Waterloo as I suspect there is very likely more to the Indian court business than meets the eye.

 

Spot on that.

I have always suspected they are hiding something and that's the only rational reason I can think of for them not selling.

I too think there is more to the court hearing than meets the eye and hope like hell it brings this shambles to a crashing halt.

[philipl]

5 hours ago, Mercer said:

No surprises to me with these accounts.  IMO, they just confirm what a shambolically run business we are.

If, and it's a bloody big if, the Raos sold the club (outside an insolvency situation), I would love to be part of the due diligence  process on behalf of a buyer - God knows what may be hidden away.  It is for this reason that I very much doubt the Raos will sell and only an insolvency situation will see us free from their clutches.

I take Waggot's words on the Raos' funding guarantee with a pinch of salt - IMO, he has neither integrity nor credibility.

I think August will see Rovers and the Raos meet their Waterloo as I suspect there is very likely more to the Indian court business than meets the eye.

 

The problem of due diligence is probably a big part of the reason they still own us.

Starting with proof of ownership on acquisition...

[Moptop1]

It will be the same come August, we can’t spend money as “put whatever new reason here” and we need to be careful.

Same old with The Rao’s. Excuse after excuse after excuse, why not to do anything to be benefit the club.

Great owners, my arse!

[ABBEY]

Tonight's performance reeks of infamous match fixing.

[Dan]

9 minutes ago, ABBEY said:

Tonight's performance reeks of infamous match fixing.

I dunno mate, I just think we’ve got a shit team and manager. 

[Upside Down]

I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this club.

After all this isn't the first time the owners have deliberately tried to relegate the club

[ABBEY]

8 hours ago, Dan said:

I dunno mate, I just think we’ve got a shit team and manager. 

deffo that but theres a defo duffy aroma and kea> aroma around now, this fella is either out his depth, clueless  or on the fiddle 

[Upside Down]

Just now, ABBEY said:

deffo that but theres a defo duffy aroma and kea> aroma around now, this fella is either out his depth, clueless  or on the fiddle 

Or all of them

[Judge21]

1 hour ago, ABBEY said:

deffo that but theres a defo duffy aroma and kea> aroma around now, this fella is either out his depth, clueless  or on the fiddle 

Yes he had a shocker of the game but don’t for one minute think there is anything malice in it. Just a poor performance from him that got worse. For me the manager is more at fault, Dom was struggling and should have been taken off at half time and replaced by Carter.

[ABBEY]

Not sure .. looked purposeful to me

[lraC]

13 minutes ago, ABBEY said:

Not sure .. looked purposeful to me

Me too and I bet he slept better than you and I did, despite his journey home in the rented coach.

[tomphil]

Too many of the senior pros heads are elsewhere by the looks of it but who is surprised they've probably all been told they can leave for the right offer in summer.

Some are blaming the rumour that they tried to flog Hyam in Jan behind his back but is there any actual evidence of it and how do we know he didn't indicate he'd be up for it ?

[Upside Down]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Too many of the senior pros heads are elsewhere by the looks of it but who is surprised they've probably all been told they can leave for the right offer in summer.

Some are blaming the rumour that they tried to flog Hyam in Jan behind his back but is there any actual evidence of it and how do we know he didn't indicate he'd be up for it ?

I think it was more that they were doing it behind JDT's back and when the player (maybe Hyam, maybe someone else) was told JDT had given it the green tick.

After a few promising performances operation relegation has been steered back on track.

[OsloRover]

On 09/04/2024 at 13:26, rob_of_the_rovers said:

Where does this put us for the three year profit and sustainability window?

Edit: I've just taken a look and for the past three years we've had the following losses:

20/21: £6.6m

21/22: £11.2m

22/23: £20.9m

Which comes to £38.7m which is just below the £39m losses allowed for a three year window. Suspiciously close if you ask me. Also leaves us with only a £7m buffer for this season's losses.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how it works.

Yes, I've looked at the accounts and come to the same conclusions as you.

Losses for 23/24 cannot exceed £6.9 million.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, OsloRover said:

Yes, I've looked at the accounts and come to the same conclusions as you.

Losses for 23/24 cannot exceed £6.9 million.

As @Herbie6590 touched on, those conclusions are incorrect.

Looking at the accounts doesnt factor in the various costs throughout those years that are exempt from FFP calculations.

Waggott has boasted that we should make a profit this year after selling Wharton, I am unsure too whether the Raya sell on will be in these upcoming 2024 accounts or whether the deal to Arsenal will be in July. But either way, factoring all this in, we have plenty of room and FFP isn't a pressing concern nor a reason should as is likely we don't spend on the squad. Problem is, there is a lot of misinformation/incorrect assumptions about FFP and it can cause people to believe it is the reason we dont spend more.

[OsloRover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

As @Herbie6590 touched on, those conclusions are incorrect.

Looking at the accounts doesnt factor in the various costs throughout those years that are exempt from FFP calculations.

Waggott has boasted that we should make a profit this year after selling Wharton, I am unsure too whether the Raya sell on will be in these upcoming 2024 accounts or whether the deal to Arsenal will be in July. But either way, factoring all this in, we have plenty of room and FFP isn't a pressing concern nor a reason should as is likely we don't spend on the squad. Problem is, there is a lot of misinformation/incorrect assumptions about FFP and it can cause people to believe it is the reason we dont spend more.

I see, apologies for not reading the full thread. I guess that means the real FFP numbers are hidden and we as fans don't really have any way of tracking them with the publicly disclosed accounts alone. 

That said, the Wharton money doesn't have any bearing on the 22/23 accounts and are irrelevant to my post.