January Transfer Needs

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

I think our league position tells you everything you need to know about the summer window. The idea that the majority of our signings have been good and only a couple didn't work out doesn't really align with our swift downward trajectory from playoff hopefuls to survival hopefuls. 

Well that's all down to personal opinion and what people see when watching games. 

But Alebiosu and Gudjohnsen have been our best 2 signings follow by Morishita, Miller and McLoughlin who have been solid of fairly good signings. Baradji is the one, I want to see more and see whether he can contiune to improve and show us why Ismael was so keen on here. 

that would be 6 out of 10 signings that have been better than Average, is that's s awful/bad? 

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Oh great - the Club's unofficial PR Department is back to tell us what a great window we're going to have/ are having.

Is there actually any need to post such pointless comments towards a poster, why not respect their comments whilst disagreeing with them?

[DE.]

Our league position isn't an opinion. 

Unless you're saying Ismael is the problem? In which case fair enough. 

[RevidgeBlue]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is there actually any need to post such pointless comments towards a poster, why not respect their comments whilst disagreeing with them?

In this particular poster's case, it's because he only ever pops up just before and during every transfer window and is never heard from inbetween.

He's briefed by the Club imo.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The point I made was nothing to do with signing Sanderson.

It was that discussing whether we have got better or worse would be based on the players we had last season, not how they have done since.

For me, far too focus on compare teams from different seasons when so much within that season has changed within the league, different teams, squad different, so many head coaches changes. Why is so relevant? 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How can you possibly say already that Baradji looks like he will be a good signing.

Its Christmas, and he hasnt started a game. You are quick to shoot down people for what you perceive to be writing off players when its the other way around, even half a season in having started games.

based on his performances and the facts he is getting fitter and fitter. I'm sure he will start a game soon but you always had a massive and major point with this signing cos he was injury and that has always been your issue with Baradji being here. 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its flippant to say that all clubs have signings that wont work out.

Most clubs dont have windows with as many total duds, with as many holes in their squad and with as drastic a drop in results.

How many duds have we signed? 

some players work out and some don't. Even managerial greats like Fergie, Wenger and Mourinho make poor signings that don't work out. Mourinho had Salah and De Bryune at Chelsea and couldn't get them performing at all. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

In this particular poster's case, it's because he only ever pops up just before and during every transfer window and is never heard from inbetween.

He's briefed by the Club imo.

You are completely and utter wrong on Paul. I know Paul and to be honest you are talking utter rubbish. He isn't briefed by the club at all. He has different opinion to yours just like I have. 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are completely and utter wrong on Paul. I know Paul and to be honest you are talking utter rubbish. He isn't briefed by the club at all. He has different opinion to yours just like I have. 

Well thank God you respect my comments whilst disagreeing with them!

Lol.

[Emerald Isle Rover]

32 minutes ago, DE. said:

If 6/10 of our signings are C or above (mostly A or then that is the majority. Granted maybe C is more adequate than good, but still. 

C is adequate not good 

we will agree to disagree for me good signings have been 

McLaughlin miller morishita gudjohnsen Alebiosu 

but in comparison terms compared to last season the squad as a whole has been downgraded on 

[Hasta]

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But Alebiosu and Gudjohnsen have been our best 2 signings follow by Morishita, Miller and McLoughlin who have been solid of fairly good signings. Baradji is the one, I want to see more and see whether he can contiune to improve and show us why Ismael was so keen on here. 

If Miller and McLaughlin are “better than average”, who would you class as average Rovers Championship centre backs from the last few years? 

Edited 4 hours ago by Hasta

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How many duds have we signed? 

Imo. At least five out of eleven. A very high percentage.

De Neve. Tavares. Forshaw. Henrikssen. Miller.

That will become six if Baradji breaks down injured.

[simongarnerisgod]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It took me about 30 minutes at the Accy Stanley friendly. He looked like somebody who had just come out of the crowd  to make up the numbers.

there were rumours flying around that in pre season training deneve was "lacking in ability!!" i don`t think iv`e seen anybody so uncomfortable at this level

[RevidgeBlue]

30 minutes ago, DE. said:

Our league position isn't an opinion. 

Just so.

He's also lacks the self awareness to comprehend that his OPINION that we've signed at least 6 players who've been above average is exactly that.

No more valid or factual than my opinion that we've signed one excellent one and one with potential out of eleven.

The only thing you can judge both opinions against though, are fixed metrics like League position.

We should storm League 1 next season though with all these supposedly great players.

[DE.]

25 minutes ago, Emerald Isle Rover said:

C is adequate not good 

we will agree to disagree for me good signings have been 

McLaughlin miller morishita gudjohnsen Alebiosu 

but in comparison terms compared to last season the squad as a whole has been downgraded on 

I think our disagreement is probably more on context. I'd agree that relative to the budget given most of the signings have at least been adequate. 

However, as far as my ambitions for the club are concerned, not so much. I want us to be better than relegation battlers and history suggests we absolutely should be. In that sense, Alebiosu is probably the only signing I'd put in the good category. Maybe Gudjohnsen at a push but he's still a downgrade on the likes of Armstrong or Szmodics. 

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Imo. At least five out of eleven. A very high percentage.

De Neve. Tavares. Forshaw. Henrikssen. Miller.

That will become six if Baradji breaks down injured.

De Neve and Tavares hasn't work out. I've been very clear on that 

Miller not for me, yes odd games he been poor but the Millwall he was very good. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

De Neve and Tavares hasn't work out. I've been very clear on that 

Miller not for me, yes odd games he been poor but the Millwall he was very good. 

I know, you repeat your opinion on each player every time someone posts their own.

Just because you've repeated it so many times doesnt make it more or less valid than the first time you said it. 

[roversfan99]

48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

For me, far too focus on compare teams from different seasons when so much within that season has changed within the league, different teams, squad different, so many head coaches changes. Why is so relevant? 

based on his performances and the facts he is getting fitter and fitter. I'm sure he will start a game soon but you always had a massive and major point with this signing cos he was injury and that has always been your issue with Baradji being here. 

How many duds have we signed? 

some players work out and some don't. Even managerial greats like Fergie, Wenger and Mourinho make poor signings that don't work out. Mourinho had Salah and De Bryune at Chelsea and couldn't get them performing at all. 

 

You keep saying that all teams have poor signings.

The only way that would be a valid counter argument is if I said that I expect all of our signings to work out. I obviously dont.

What the success or failure comes down to is how many signings are good, how many are poor, how good and poor they are, how well the squad is balanced, and how the team does compared to previous seasons and expectations.

We have numerous signings who arent just poor, they are terrible. One in Alebiosu has been an excellent signing. Another in Gudjohnsen has been very good. 3 others have been ok, one hasnt started a game yet and one or two others are a bit below par. The squads massively imbalanced and we are is it 13 places lower in the table. You are making out like every team has an equal amount of successes and failures and its just one of those things.

Thats not a case of shrugging and going, well even Ferguson and Mourinho didnt get it right all of the time. Its obviously not comparable to that.

And on Baradji. This isnt me having it in for him. He has shown promise in a couple of cameos. But how you can possibly even suggest that hes towards the successful end is ridiculous when he literally hasnt started a game yet.

[RoversClitheroe]

This thread is literally a thread where Chaddy defends the undefendable.

De Neve terrible 

Tavares even worse

Miller is meh (when comparing to Batth and Hyam)

McLaughlin same again (when comparing to Batth and Hyam)

TGH shit compared to what we had before

Henrikson - think he has something but not seen it yet.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

This thread is literally a thread where Chaddy defends the undefendable.

De Neve terrible 

Tavares even worse

Miller is meh (when comparing to Batth and Hyam)

McLaughlin same again (when comparing to Batth and Hyam)

TGH shit compared to what we had before

Henrikson - think he has something but not seen it yet.

 

Plus Forshaw who predictably is rarely available due to injury.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You keep saying that all teams have poor signings.

The only way that would be a valid counter argument is if I said that I expect all of our signings to work out. I obviously dont.

What the success or failure comes down to is how many signings are good, how many are poor, how good and poor they are, how well the squad is balanced, and how the team does compared to previous seasons and expectations.

what were people expectations? I was talking to 3 follow Rovers supporting friends who were all saying that given the squad overhaul and everything, staying up was their objective and build on that for next summer. 

What the point comparing everything to previous seasons when so much has changed not just at Rovers but within the league like the teams involved, transfers, different head coaches, etc. 

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have numerous signings who arent just poor, they are terrible. One in Alebiosu has been an excellent signing. Another in Gudjohnsen has been very good. 3 others have been ok, one hasnt started a game yet and one or two others are a bit below par. The squads massively imbalanced and we are is it 13 places lower in the table. You are making out like every team has an equal amount of successes and failures and its just one of those things. Thats not a case of shrugging and going, well even Ferguson and Mourinho didnt get it right all of the time. Its obviously not comparable to that.

its a couple of players. the squad need re-adjust now cos of the change of formations but nowhere near your doom gloom comments. 

I remember people praising Birmingham for spending £8m on Kyogo Furuhashi, he has yet to score in the championship and he has struggled in this league. He was their big summer signing and spent over half their transfer spent on him. Some signings work out and some don't. That's is football, you could go through each club transfers and you would be similar were some have work, some ok and some that haven't. 

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

And on Baradji. This isnt me having it in for him. He has shown promise in a couple of cameos. But how you can possibly even suggest that hes towards the successful end is ridiculous when he literally hasnt started a game yet.

You were against him coming here from the start cos of the injury. Since playing, you can see why Ismael wanted him and what was around that. If he carry on and keep getting fitter then I think he will turn out like one. 

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

what were people expectations? I was talking to 3 follow Rovers supporting friends who were all saying that given the squad overhaul and everything, staying up was their objective and build on that for next summer. 

What the point comparing everything to previous seasons when so much has changed not just at Rovers but within the league like the teams involved, transfers, different head coaches, etc. 

its a couple of players. the squad need re-adjust now cos of the change of formations but nowhere near your doom gloom comments. 

I remember people praising Birmingham for spending £8m on Kyogo Furuhashi, he has yet to score in the championship and he has struggled in this league. He was their big summer signing and spent over half their transfer spent on him. Some signings work out and some don't. That's is football, you could go through each club transfers and you would be similar were some have work, some ok and some that haven't. 

You were against him coming here from the start cos of the injury. Since playing, you can see why Ismael wanted him and what was around that. If he carry on and keep getting fitter then I think he will turn out like one. 

You definitely did not suggest in the summer that your expectation was survival and build. 

And yes, I was against signing a player who wouldnt be fit enough to start for half a season. 

Doom and gloom comments? Yes, believe it or not, such a drastic drop in league position so soon does tend to do that. You try and consistently parrot what comes out of the club as if its all part of a good plan. Just a couple of poor signings, like Ferguson used to make. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We never build on anything. The success stories will be sold in the summer to keep the lights on again. Then it’s start from scratch again.

[RoverCanada]

I think you can rationally judge a number of our signings as adequate/passing grades, while still damning our overall window/direction of travel. Most of the new signings seem to be decent guys, graft hard, have at least some good qualities, etc., and you can also qualify some signings according to their low cost, but wider context still shows major failings, particularly at CB (only somewhat mitigated by some decent performances by Pratt!)

Running through my own grades (I definitely lean toward 'on the one hand, on the other hand' caution, to a fault! And also less confident in my own assessment abilities than some posters, ha):

Alebiosu - A: I was saddened/annoyed to see Brittain go, but pretty much exemplifies a trading 'model' working perfectly. The problem is we probably needed a least a couple more like this one.

Morishita - B+: A couple subpar showings, needing time to adjust to the Championship (a common theme for why you can give some signings an individual pass, while lamenting the wider window), but I think he's a joy to watch and one of few capable of a killer pass.

Gudjohnsen - B: All around play needs work, but hard to get too down about a good poacher. Should continue to improve too.

TGH - B: I pigeon-holed him as a typical carthorse MF, which is fine, but has shown some decent talent too. Nothing exceptional, but has been a saving grace at MF given our other attempts to replace Travis (see below). The B grade is for the player alone, but I'd give it a C as a transfer, as it's a bit weird that we had to loan him in to simply make up MF numbers.

Miller - B-: I struggle to assess Miller. Sometimes looks like an absolute donkey, but brings some needed passion, physicality, and at least tries to be forward-looking in his passes. Long throws a plus too. I think he's a decent pickup in isolation, particularly at his price/age. But it was unfair to him that he was suddenly held up as the reason we could dispatch Hyam last second, which was obviously BS.

McLoughlin - C: Probably would've given him a B earlier in the year as he seemed like the only stable part of a disrupted backline, but has had some really shaky appearances of late. Decent CB depth, and maybe an ok replacement for Batth in terms of having an old head back there, and but not a replacement for Hyam.

Baradji - C-???: Really hard to grade this one. Some promising cameos and could be a revelation if/when fit for starts, but that wider health context, along with Tavares below, are part of a significant failure trying to replace Travis in MF. Hell, I wouldn't be that surprised if we're looking at this one as an A signing in a year's time, but the wider failing is we didn't have time for that this year.

Henriksson - D I wouldn't blink at someone giving him an F grade, but I truly think he simply hasn't been able to find a rythmn yet, plus some unfortunate injuries. Apparently not that cheap either at £1.5m, but I'm at least hopeful he'll emerge ok eventually (but, again, we needed most of these signings to hit the ground running...)

De Neve - F: He does have an exciting burst of pace, and maybe still an ok late sub if we're behind (but not if we're ahead!), as you can see him tearing up a slower footed RB, but poor end product limits what he can actually make of that, and simply terrible defensively. Must've been a cheap punt, so not disastrous (and thankful that Hedges has looked revitalised), but simply not good enough.

Tavares - F: Might be capable of a decent ball here and there... but otherwise, has simply looked crap and apparently not that cheap. Seemed to be touted as our starting MF and immediately fell down the pecking order. Perhaps the most consequential failure of the window, only mitigated by TGH stepping up ok.

So, I may be giving too many passing grades above, yet I'd probably assess our transfer window as an F at midfield (TGH maybe brings this up to a D, but that's a stretch!), D in defence (Miller/McLoughling are ok and Alebiosu a star, but selling Hyam as we did was criminal), and maybe a B+ in attack.

[K-Hod]

There’s doom and gloom as it feels pointless. 
We can’t really enjoy players, as they are sold as soon as they start playing well.

We never build on anything- when we get close to play offs, we sell the squad the summer after then fight against relegation the following season.

They aren’t interested in success, higher league positions, promotion or anything like that- only cutting costs.

It’s absolute shite and we deserve better.

That’s why there’s doom and gloom.

[Paul Mani]

4 hours ago, TugaysMarlboro said:

What have you seen from De Neve that makes you feel it's too early to judge?

I just haven’t seen a lot of him. He’s not started many and usually comes in for a cameo. Not saying I’ve seen anything good specifically.

For those in the ‘Jury is out’ group. There are some who are obviously in a better position than others. Baradji looks promising, whilst TGH, DeNeve and Tavares have had more chances without doing much, but Henriksson hasn’t really played yet.

Personally, I hold out hope on Baradji, Henriksson and Tavares (who I still think there’s a player in). DeNeve doesn’t look up to it, so far and TGH is just, “Meh”. Can see the latter two leaving.

[joey_big_nose]

32 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

I think you can rationally judge a number of our signings as adequate/passing grades, while still damning our overall window/direction of travel. Most of the new signings seem to be decent guys, graft hard, have at least some good qualities, etc., and you can also qualify some signings according to their low cost, but wider context still shows major failings, particularly at CB (only somewhat mitigated by some decent performances by Pratt!)

Running through my own grades (I definitely lean toward 'on the one hand, on the other hand' caution, to a fault! And also less confident in my own assessment abilities than some posters, ha):

Alebiosu - A: I was saddened/annoyed to see Brittain go, but pretty much exemplifies a trading 'model' working perfectly. The problem is we probably needed a least a couple more like this one.

Morishita - B+: A couple subpar showings, needing time to adjust to the Championship (a common theme for why you can give some signings an individual pass, while lamenting the wider window), but I think he's a joy to watch and one of few capable of a killer pass.

Gudjohnsen - B: All around play needs work, but hard to get too down about a good poacher. Should continue to improve too.

TGH - B: I pigeon-holed him as a typical carthorse MF, which is fine, but has shown some decent talent too. Nothing exceptional, but has been a saving grace at MF given our other attempts to replace Travis (see below). The B grade is for the player alone, but I'd give it a C as a transfer, as it's a bit weird that we had to loan him in to simply make up MF numbers.

Miller - B-: I struggle to assess Miller. Sometimes looks like an absolute donkey, but brings some needed passion, physicality, and at least tries to be forward-looking in his passes. Long throws a plus too. I think he's a decent pickup in isolation, particularly at his price/age. But it was unfair to him that he was suddenly held up as the reason we could dispatch Hyam last second, which was obviously BS.

McLoughlin - C: Probably would've given him a B earlier in the year as he seemed like the only stable part of a disrupted backline, but has had some really shaky appearances of late. Decent CB depth, and maybe an ok replacement for Batth in terms of having an old head back there, and but not a replacement for Hyam.

Baradji - C-???: Really hard to grade this one. Some promising cameos and could be a revelation if/when fit for starts, but that wider health context, along with Tavares below, are part of a significant failure trying to replace Travis in MF. Hell, I wouldn't be that surprised if we're looking at this one as an A signing in a year's time, but the wider failing is we didn't have time for that this year.

Henriksson - D I wouldn't blink at someone giving him an F grade, but I truly think he simply hasn't been able to find a rythmn yet, plus some unfortunate injuries. Apparently not that cheap either at £1.5m, but I'm at least hopeful he'll emerge ok eventually (but, again, we needed most of these signings to hit the ground running...)

De Neve - F: He does have an exciting burst of pace, and maybe still an ok late sub if we're behind (but not if we're ahead!), as you can see him tearing up a slower footed RB, but poor end product limits what he can actually make of that, and simply terrible defensively. Must've been a cheap punt, so not disastrous (and thankful that Hedges has looked revitalised), but simply not good enough.

Tavares - F: Might be capable of a decent ball here and there... but otherwise, has simply looked crap and apparently not that cheap. Seemed to be touted as our starting MF and immediately fell down the pecking order. Perhaps the most consequential failure of the window, only mitigated by TGH stepping up ok.

So, I may be giving too many passing grades above, yet I'd probably assess our transfer window as an F at midfield (TGH maybe brings this up to a D, but that's a stretch!), D in defence (Miller/McLoughling are ok and Alebiosu a star, but selling Hyam as we did was criminal), and maybe a B+ in attack.

Totally agree with this...

TBH Tavares and De Neve aside I think the signings have been okay for the very little money we can afford. Henricksson I am on the fence on as not seen enough.

The issue is more that we sell established experienced players for nothing or very little. It would not be beyond our wit to find a way to keep them without spending more money if we had engaged owners who could plan more than a few months ahead. Also we would be able to sell them for more money if needed imo.

[KentExile]

3 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Totally agree with this...

TBH Tavares and De Neve aside I think the signings have been okay for the very little money we can choose to afford. Henricksson I am on the fence on as not seen enough.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by KentExile