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Tony Mowbray Discussion

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Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Yea but if you’re continuously looking for things to be upset about or expect better from, you’ll find it.

Many predicted Smallwood and Evans back, but Johnson (who looked good imo) has been ignored because it doesn’t suit the picture that people want to paint DE.

Equally - no defenders have been signed!! (except one of the brightest prospects in England on loan, who played at club that finished top 6 last season)..

You see what I’m getting at? You could very easily spin that to me searching for things that I want to agree or support - but I felt the substitutions yesterday in hindsight, were woeful!

At the end of the day mate you either think Mowbray is doing a decent job, or you don't. I totally understand the viewpoint that Mowbray is doing well with what he has. I may not agree with it, but I do get it. Personally, my viewpoint that Mowbray is not doing such a good job and is failing to rectify our problems. At the same time I'm aware of the restrictions and pitfalls that come with working for Venky's, and the very real possibility that we could end up with someone significantly worse than TM if he goes. I appreciate what Mowbray is trying to do for the club and I think he has a lot of good ideas - unfortunately I'm not sure he's able or willing to implement them, for whatever reason. I strongly believe he's taken us as far as he can and that we will start to regress the longer he stays.

We all want Mowbray to do well, because if he does well then so does the club. I just don't see any evidence that he as a manager is learning from his mistakes. As far as Mowbray is concerned, I feel like very little has changed since our League 1 campaign. If he can't push beyond his fear of the opposition and fear of change then regrettably we will need to find someone else to move us forward. It's just a shame that our idiot owners are the ones in charge of that, because it's practically guaranteed they will fuck it up. 

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Just now, RoverAbroad said:

He's in the running for any lower half Prem club that sack their manager. He's out of our league now and, even if he wasn't, he'd not go within a mile of the Venky's again.

He said of the sack at Ewood that it was all just "weird" I remember. He seemed more nonplussed and bewildered than angry. Sacked, with his contract paid up in full, while retaining a good reputation.

We'd be shopping in the bargain bin this time, just like all the other times under these jokers. All our managerial appointments have been of those not in a job (Coyle, Mowbrary), at a smaller club (Berg, Appleton) or promoted from within (Kean, Bowyer). They've not made a move for a manager that would cost them much compensation once in a decade, so it would be unlikely to happen this time. Heck, they couldn't even keep Paul Lambert when he had no other club to go to! 

After his serious heart scare, Sam wanted out of Rovers the previous summer so that he could take over Al Ahli and was really angry at JW for not releasing him. A few months later and after the takeover, he was a goner. I don't think he is out of our league because we wouldn't pay compensation on him and Sam loves a short term challenge. I don't think it would help that he likes to have a percentage of outgoing transfer fees attached to his bonuses though - I doubt that went down well with the V's when they took over but if he can turn rough diamonds into gems, I have no issue with it.

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Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I’m sure you’ll find one particular poster predicted Evans on the wing yesterday MB

Ok, that’s ‘many predicting Smallwood and Evans would be back, is it?

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Just now, RoverAbroad said:

He did a good job in the first half of the season. He did a bad job in the second half of the season. Overall, a decent job all round as we stayed up relatively comfortably in the end.

However, harking back to results in 2018 isn't much use when we've been struggling for most of 2019 and he is making the same selection mistakes again and again. That's the concern. 

it's too early in the season to call for his head, but certainly after, say, ten games we should be in a position to see if he is progressing or is carrying on regressing (which we have been doing for six months now).

Technically I'd say our troubles started in November when we were spanked by Preston and handily beaten by Wigan. After that we went on a very poor run of conceding numerous late goals and throwing away points. We had a kind run of fixtures in January which we got maximum points from - but you have to consider it a blip when we then lost nine of the next eleven games, largely continuing the terrible run of form that began in November.

As I mentioned in a previous post, we lurched from very bad to very good form last season. It was an unstable nine months which left everybody feeling a little unsure, but Mowbray's comments suggesting he understood our concerns and would act on them quelled the growing unease. Then the transfer window and yesterday happened, and it feels like all the problems from last season are back for another nine months. 

I agree that there is no point in removing him now. He's had a transfer window and will have time to show that he does have this situation under control. I'm not confident but all we can do now is wait and see what transpires. If the same mistakes keep happening and we keep dropping points due to poor defending then harsh criticism must be expected though. 

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Just now, DE. said:

At the end of the day mate you either think Mowbray is doing a decent job, or you don't. I totally understand the viewpoint that Mowbray is doing well with what he has. I may not agree with it, but I do get it. Personally, my viewpoint that Mowbray is not doing such a good job and is failing to rectify our problems. At the same time I'm aware of the restrictions and pitfalls that come with working for Venky's, and the very real possibility that we could end up with someone significantly worse than TM if he goes. I appreciate what Mowbray is trying to do for the club and I think he has a lot of good ideas - unfortunately I'm not sure he's able or willing to implement them, for whatever reason. I strongly believe he's taken us as far as he can and that we will start to regress the longer he stays.

We all want Mowbray to do well, because if he does well then so does the club. I just don't see any evidence that he as a manager is learning from his mistakes. As far as Mowbray is concerned, I feel like very little has changed since our League 1 campaign. If he can't push beyond his fear of the opposition and fear of change then regrettably we will need to find someone else to move us forward. It's just a shame that our idiot owners are the ones in charge of that, because it's practically guaranteed they will fuck it up. 

I just don’t buy into the perception that his “mistakes” are as simple as others might.

Bennett is a good example. We know we have a decent budget but not top of the league. We also have Nyambe who is not quite ready but could eventually be. Do you sign a RB? Or use Nyambe? If he does another performance or two like the one at Preston do you cut losses with him? 

Im merely assuming just one tiny aspect of the thought process involved for one position - which many just blankly state is “Nyambe should start, no brainer”. That’s not me saying I’d do exactly what TM has with our FB positions, but again Hart and JRC are both adding to that discussion in the club, it’s not and never quite as simple as it’s perceived.

Therefore when I hear “he’s not learning from his mistakes” in relation to that kind of decision, well just think of the famous Picard face palm gif. It’s not that simple in my book.

I also don’t buy into the sweeping criticisms that are casually used, for one; “fear of the opposition”... I mean in reality, wouldn’t we defend better if he had a paranoia about opposition? Another one; plays his favourites. When has any manager ever not had certain stalwarts, or club men? 

Ultimately- if there was a time to act it was May. That’s passed, even if you’re the most staunchly anti TM rovers fan, if you understand football, you know now is not the time to act.

 

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Just now, RoverAbroad said:

He did a good job in the first half of the season. He did a bad job in the second half of the season. Overall, a decent job all round as we stayed up relatively comfortably in the end.

However, harking back to results in 2018 isn't much use when we've been struggling for most of 2019 and he is making the same selection mistakes again and again. That's the concern. 

it's too early in the season to call for his head, but certainly after, say, ten games we should be in a position to see if he is progressing or is carrying on regressing (which we have been doing for six months now).

The only issue I would have with that is that on current form with the defence we have after 10 games the team could be relegated. That's not to overreact but would you trust these lot to drag themselves out of proper danger and fight for every drop ball, take a kick in the face, foul play, anything to win games to get points needed for survival? I wouldn't. 

 

He get the rest of the window and a game or two before it's nailed on sacked for me.

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Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I just don’t buy into the perception that his “mistakes” are as simple as others might.

Bennett is a good example. We know we have a decent budget but not top of the league. We also have Nyambe who is not quite ready but could eventually be. Do you sign a RB? Or use Nyambe? If he does another performance or two like the one at Preston do you cut losses with him? 

Im merely assuming just one tiny aspect of the thought process involved for one position - which many just blankly state is “Nyambe should start, no brainer”. That’s not me saying I’d do exactly what TM has with our FB positions, but again Hart and JRC are both adding to that discussion in the club, it’s not and never quite as simple as it’s perceived.

Therefore when I hear “he’s not learning from his mistakes” in relation to that kind of decision, well just think of the famous Picard face palm gif. It’s not that simple in my book.

I also don’t buy into the sweeping criticisms that are casually used, for one; “fear of the opposition”... I mean in reality, wouldn’t we defend better if he had a paranoia about opposition? Another one; plays his favourites. When has any manager ever not had certain stalwarts, or club men? 

Ultimately- if there was a time to act it was May. That’s passed, even if you’re the most staunchly anti TM rovers fan, if you understand football, you know now is not the time to act.

 

I agree that now isn't the time to act, but I do think Mowbray overthinks things and you can break some things down to some fairly simple points.

Is Bennett a good right back? No. I don't think anybody can really argue that he is. He's adequete at best and very poor at worst. He costs us points in that position. Therefore going into the transfer window we either consider Nyambe good enough to be first choice RB with Bennett and JRC acting as backup, or we don't. If we don't then we need to bring somebody in to do the job. Yes, it's easy for me to say 'just bring someone in', but that's just what you have to do. You've got to get on with it, or be prepared for criticism if you fail to address that problem and it affects results going forward. That's how it works - the manager ultimately carries the can, whether you perceive it to be fair or not.

Fear of the opposition comes from us playing like underdogs in most matches and I think that's demonstratable by the fact we've rarely dominated teams under Mowbray's tenure. Whether a team is low or high in the table we tend to have fairly even games, suggesting we don't ever plan to impose ourselves. That may just be Mowbray's preferred style, and if so then OK, but you aren't going to get into the top six playing like that. 

I'd agree that all managers have favourites, but I'm sorry, when you come out and publicly slam young players whilst completely ignoring the mistakes made by your senior favourites, it will be highlighted. Mowbray's criticism of Travis, Rothwell and Raya last season was bang out of order imo, especially when he has never and probably will never name the likes of Bennett or Mulgrew. I disagree with slating players in public to begin with, but the transparent nature of who he targets really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

When all is said and done, nobody (well, almost nobody, there are exceptions) will 100% agree with what a manager does. We will all have our criticisms, whether it's tactics, post-match interviews, transfers, staff recruitment, or whatever else. I'm unfortunately at a point where I am disagreeing with more of Mowbray's decisions than I agree with, and when it gets to that point I personally consider it time for a change. The timing of the change is important too, though, and as I said above that time isn't right now. It may be soon though. We need a lot in the last few days of the window imo. 

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Just now, DE. said:

I agree that now isn't the time to act, but I do think Mowbray overthinks things and you can break some things down to some fairly simple points.

Is Bennett a good right back? No. I don't think anybody can really argue that he is. He's adequete at best and very poor at worst. He costs us points in that position. Therefore going into the transfer window we either consider Nyambe good enough to be first choice RB with Bennett and JRC acting as backup, or we don't. If we don't then we need to bring somebody in to do the job. Yes, it's easy for me to say 'just bring someone in', but that's just what you have to do. You've got to get on with it, or be prepared for criticism if you fail to address that problem and it affects results going forward. That's how it works - the manager ultimately carries the can, whether you perceive it to be fair or not.

Fear of the opposition comes from us playing like underdogs in most matches and I think that's demonstratable by the fact we've rarely dominated teams under Mowbray's tenure. Whether a team is low or high in the table we tend to have fairly even games, suggesting we don't ever plan to impose ourselves. That may just be Mowbray's preferred style, and if so then OK, but you aren't going to get into the top six playing like that. 

I'd agree that all managers have favourites, but I'm sorry, when you come out and publicly slam young players whilst completely ignoring the mistakes made by your senior favourites, it will be highlighted. Mowbray's criticism of Travis, Rothwell and Raya last season was bang out of order imo, especially when he has never and probably will never name the likes of Bennett or Mulgrew. I disagree with slating players in public to begin with, but the transparent nature of who he targets really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

When all is said and done, nobody (well, almost nobody, there are exceptions) will 100% agree with what a manager does. We will all have our criticisms, whether it's tactics, post-match interviews, transfers, staff recruitment, or whatever else. I'm unfortunately at a point where I am disagreeing with more of Mowbray's decisions than I agree with, and when it gets to that point I personally consider it time for a change. The timing of the change is important too, though, and as I said above that time isn't right now. It may be soon though. We need a lot in the last few days of the window imo. 

Exceptional post highlighting the many issues. 

Only thing I'd add is it took a year before at least one of Smallwood/Evans didn't play - that's hardly a rapid response! Likewise Bennett & Mulgrew play as badly as they do yet retain their places - can't remember other key managers doing that. Flitcroft and Savage favourites of Souness and Hughes respectively were both dropped for poor form. 

Also how anyone can think Bennett is better than Nayambe at RB is beyond me. Pace, tackling, positional awareness - Nayambe is streets ahead of Bennett. 

I think highlighting the picking on young players is also something that is making me cold to TM. One of his big plusses was he was a genuine nice guy - around Ewood that's a huge positive - but between this and the saying one thing and doing another I'm beginning to dislike the guy as well as question his managerial competence. Interestingly the same happened to Bowyer - his comments by the end were rather dodge. Maybe working with the Vs corrupts? 

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Just now, DE. said:

I agree that now isn't the time to act, but I do think Mowbray overthinks things and you can break some things down to some fairly simple points.

Is Bennett a good right back? No. I don't think anybody can really argue that he is. He's adequete at best and very poor at worst. He costs us points in that position. Therefore going into the transfer window we either consider Nyambe good enough to be first choice RB with Bennett and JRC acting as backup, or we don't. If we don't then we need to bring somebody in to do the job. Yes, it's easy for me to say 'just bring someone in', but that's just what you have to do. You've got to get on with it, or be prepared for criticism if you fail to address that problem and it affects results going forward. That's how it works - the manager ultimately carries the can, whether you perceive it to be fair or not.

I wouldn’t say fair I’d say accurate. I don’t think it’s a clear cut decision between the two, trying to keep this brief - I’d say Bennett / Nyambe are on a par at RB - the way we play anyway. Nyambe has many more defensive pro’s where as (shown in some neat interplay with Downing yesterday) Bennett is a far better crosser and attacker.

A fear of the opposition or perennial underdog approach for me would make Nyambe a more likely inclusion.

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Fear of the opposition comes from us playing like underdogs in most matches and I think that's demonstratable by the fact we've rarely dominated teams under Mowbray's tenure. Whether a team is low or high in the table we tend to have fairly even games, suggesting we don't ever plan to impose ourselves. That may just be Mowbray's preferred style, and if so then OK, but you aren't going to get into the top six playing like that. 

We’d agree on TMs main tactical issue is down to a lack of “percentage” based philosophies. Set pieces again our undoing, where better managers will have teams far more rugged than I’ve ever seen on of Tony’s teams, including others like WBA.

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I'd agree that all managers have favourites, but I'm sorry, when you come out and publicly slam young players whilst completely ignoring the mistakes made by your senior favourites, it will be highlighted. Mowbray's criticism of Travis, Rothwell and Raya last season was bang out of order imo, especially when he has never and probably will never name the likes of Bennett or Mulgrew. I disagree with slating players in public to begin with, but the transparent nature of who he targets really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

I think you’ve likely fell on that by choice as opposed to design, but each to their own! I never got that feeling from his interviews, I’ve concurred with many of his complaints towards individuals and team - particularly Raya at times, Rothwell and Travis both made key individual mistakes leading to goals again yesterday! That’s not a new thing, whilst both are exceptional in other aspects.

This also goes back to the idea about what he says in public, in his office and the dressing room - it’s all the same. I doubt that very much. Mulgrew was unceremoniously dropped last season, and whilst I don’t recall him being dug out in an interview, I can assume the discussions at Brockhall may have been rather critical!

 

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When all is said and done, nobody (well, almost nobody, there are exceptions) will 100% agree with what a manager does. We will all have our criticisms, whether it's tactics, post-match interviews, transfers, staff recruitment, or whatever else. I'm unfortunately at a point where I am disagreeing with more of Mowbray's decisions than I agree with, and when it gets to that point I personally consider it time for a change. The timing of the change is important too, though, and as I said above that time isn't right now. It may be soon though. We need a lot in the last few days of the window imo. 

Absolutely - we should all have our own perception and opinion. I still think much of what is going on is “correct” yet but it’s a fine line between success and failure.

Im not convinced that TM is the long term future of the club, and as the DJ appointment subtly points at, there is at least a plan for if and when it’s time to move on the manager.

Which as you say, brings us back to timing. The main issue with the many of the reactions are simple, they are not taking that context in to account.

Cheers for the great discussion btw DE, there’s times when this place shows it is thee place to get actual rational alternate views in depth! Time for a pint..! 

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Just now, Blue blood said:

Only thing I'd add is it took a year before at least one of Smallwood/Evans didn't play - that's hardly a rapid response! Likewise Bennett & Mulgrew play as badly as they do yet retain their places - can't remember other key managers doing that. Flitcroft and Savage favourites of Souness and Hughes respectively were both dropped for poor form. 

People seem to forget sometimes that Travis only became a regular in January - literally weeks before Mowbray was talking about loaning him out. Fortunately for us Travis came in for Smallwood - who I think was suspended? - and made such a difference that Tony had no choice but to do a u-turn. Another case of his hand being forced rather than naturally bringing a player through and dropping a favourite through poor form. Now credit where it is due, Mowbray kept Travis in the team even when Smallwood was available for selection again, but it would have been very difficult for him to justify doing anything else.

Rothwell for me is the worst of the lot. He must be wondering what else he has to do to get a shot here. Showed glimpses of talent in his appearances before April last season, then FINALLY gets a run in the team for the last few matches of the campaign and is superb, giving us a new dimension and helping us go on a run of wins which previously seemed unimaginable. First match of this season rolls around and he's replaced by 35 year old Stewart Downing. If I was Rothwell I would be mightily peeved about this. How can you see this as anything other than stunting the development of a young prospect in favour of an extremely short-term solution? We can only hope that Rothwell is back in the team ASAP and Charlton was an aberration. It will reflect really badly on Mowbray otherwise imo, and Rothwell would be well within his rights to demand a transfer elsewhere. 

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I first called for Mowbray to be sacked after the capitulation at Elland Road on Boxing Day (to the derision of many on here) and everything I have seen since has only strengthened my opinion. When people on here were saying give him the summer, I could not understand them as he had already neglected to improve the defence in January when we were on the cusp of the top 6.

He should be sacked for negligence, to put that defence out on the first day of the season is an embarrassment from a manager who is either blind to the defensive failings or is completely deluded either way he has to go it we want to have a decent season.  

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Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Cheers for the great discussion btw DE, there’s times when this place shows it is thee place to get actual rational alternate views in depth! Time for a pint..! 

I may not agree with everything you say mate, but with explanation I at least understand and respect where you're coming from. I'd much prefer to see this kind of back and forth than insults and discussion being shut down due to hiding posts, etc. It would be boring if we all had the same viewpoint and the more debate the better, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure almost all of us with severe doubts over TM hopes he proves us wrong, as that will only benefit Rovers long term. I'll be more than happy to hold my hand up at the end of the season if we've done well and say I was wrong - it wouldn't be the first time! - but without defensive reinforcements I fear Mowbray may not make it that far. Let's see what the next few days bring.

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Just now, DE. said:

People seem to forget sometimes that Travis only became a regular in January - literally weeks before Mowbray was talking about loaning him out. Fortunately for us Travis came in for Smallwood - who I think was suspended? - and made such a difference that Tony had no choice but to do a u-turn. Another case of his hand being forced rather than naturally bringing a player through and dropping a favourite through poor form. Now credit where it is due, Mowbray kept Travis in the team even when Smallwood was available for selection again, but it would have been very difficult for him to justify doing anything else.

Rothwell for me is the worst of the lot. He must be wondering what else he has to do to get a shot here. Showed glimpses of talent in his appearances before April last season, then FINALLY gets a run in the team for the last few matches of the campaign and is superb, giving us a new dimension and helping us go on a run of wins which previously seemed unimaginable. First match of this season rolls around and he's replaced by 35 year old Stewart Downing. If I was Rothwell I would be mightily peeved about this. How can you see this as anything other than stunting the development of a young prospect in favour of an extremely short-term solution? We can only hope that Rothwell is back in the team ASAP and Charlton was an aberration. It will reflect really badly on Mowbray otherwise imo, and Rothwell would be well within his rights to demand a transfer elsewhere. 

Yes the hand being forced is another element in the lengthy Evanswood saga. That said it could have been rectified before Travis's emergence by sticking Bennett where he is actually good would like a start. 

Agree with Rothwell - no reason why shouldn't start. Especially since Downing started on the right and Rothwell plays on the left he could have had both in. And Armstrong hasn't done great. He really must hate Rothwell as even when he proves himself he isn't in the team. That said others are included regardless of performance so perhaps that isn't a criteria for selection. 

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Just now, Blue blood said:

Yes the hand being forced is another element in the lengthy Evanswood saga. That said it could have been rectified before Travis's emergence by sticking Bennett where he is actually good would like a start. 

Agree with Rothwell - no reason why shouldn't start. Especially since Downing started on the right and Rothwell plays on the left he could have had both in. And Armstrong hasn't done great. He really must hate Rothwell as even when he proves himself he isn't in the team. That said others are included regardless of performance so perhaps that isn't a criteria for selection. 

What's funny is that when Downing was signed I distinctly remember the concensus being that he would not be playing on the wing, that he'd be in the middle as that was where Boro were playing him, etc. Lo and behold first game of the season Downing is indeed playing on the wing. Whilst I believe that he should largely be used as an impact substitute (or LB if we don't bring anybody in by Thursday, he must be better than Bell) I get the feeling Tony has brought him here under the impression he will be a first teamer. If so then it will inevitably be at the expense of one of our younger players which is not what I want to see. 

Edited by DE.

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6 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

More justified than over the top hatred of Keith Andrews isn't it? 😄

Keith Andrews STOLE a PL career.

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What Mowbray says and what Mowbray does/what actually happens are two very different things. So his comments in the Telegraph I tend to ignore these days. Very little of what he promised has actually materialised. Be it new defenders, new style of play etc. 

I was looking at his comments the day after selling Raya that he wanted an 'experienced' keeper in to replace him. The inference being that Raya wasn't experienced and that was the problem. He then goes and signs Christian Walton on loan from Brighton, who has 30 odd games at this level with Wigan under his belt and less than 100 career appearances on loan at various lower league clubs. So a similar number of career appearances to Raya but less at Championship level. 

Now maybe we will go and get this experienced keeper Mowbray said he wanted but my money is on nobody else arriving before Thursday as things have gone very quiet and we don't tend to be very good at doing late urgent business. Our deals take weeks to get over the line. 

These sort of comments are what is costing Mowbray big time in my view. He seems to 'get it' when talking to the fans and press but then what he actually does is completely different and he tries to cover for that afterwards.

 

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27 minutes ago, DE. said:

What's funny is that when Downing was signed I distinctly remember the concensus being that he would not be playing on the wing, that he'd be in the middle as that was where Boro were playing him, etc. Lo and behold first game of the season Downing is indeed playing on the wing. Whilst I believe that he should largely be used as an impact substitute (or LB if we don't bring anybody in by Thursday, he must be better than Bell) I get the feeling Tony has brought him here under the impression he will be a first teamer. If so then it will inevitably be at the expense of one of our younger players which is not what I want to see. 

I can't see Downing having the pace for left back if I'm honest. I worry too that he will be a first team player. Whilst he does bring balance of a left sided player who can cross to the team I wouldn't want him over Rothwell. 

Perhaps Rothwell could go on the right and Downing the left (agree he'll have been sold us as a regular starter) as Armstrong hasn't covered himself in glory? Either way it's not long term planning and will result in our younger players not developing. But I agree it'll be an anyone but Rothwell situation for most of the time. 

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2 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

In context - anyone who thinks the most sensible decision would be to sack a manager 90 minutes into a season, knows nothing about football.

This has nothing to do with arguments calling for his head going back months, I’m talking about that single reaction.

Even those who want a better manager surely appreciate that 1 game in, is not the time to make such decisions. 

Perhaps you should maybe think about the fact that such posts are also intended to lean on the manager and the club to show that some of us are not happy and for what reasons... Rather than just clapping along and lapping up his ramblings and sub standard tactical decisions. Do I expect that he will be sacked? No but regardless of what stage of the season we are at some of us are not happy with the man in charge and haven't been for a while. Despite if you agree with it or not we have the right to express that opinion and questioning our football knowledge doesn't exactly endear you to these people or inspire decent debate either. I think you've been lucky that D. E. has been pretty decent and patient with you because some of us certainly wouldn't have been. 

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Just now, Neal said:

Perhaps you should maybe think about the fact that such posts are also intended to lean on the manager and the club to show that some of us are not happy and for what reasons... Rather than just clapping along and lapping up his ramblings and sub standard tactical decisions. Do I expect that he will be sacked? No but regardless of what stage of the season we are at some of us are not happy with the man in charge and haven't been for a while. Despite if you agree with it or not we have the right to express that opinion and questioning our football knowledge doesn't exactly endear you to these people or inspire decent debate either. I think you've been lucky that D. E. has been pretty decent and patient with you because some of us certainly wouldn't have been. 

It’s always one or the other - black or white, as if anyone who thinks some of the “reactionary tosh” is unwarranted, is automatically “happy clapping”.

You know - there’s plenty of middle ground where you can be critical of certain process but still think changing manager is a ludicrous choice.

End of the day - people are welcome to make their own assertions, and if they aren’t prepared to hear what others might think, they’re better off not bothering in the first place. As I said, regardless of taking it out context, I would suggest any opinion that believes TM should be sacked ASAP, has no real understanding of football.

If you find that annoying, or patronising - I’d take some of your own advice about accepting others opinions on BRFCS! 

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37 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I can't see Downing having the pace for left back if I'm honest. I worry too that he will be a first team player. Whilst he does bring balance of a left sided player who can cross to the team I wouldn't want him over Rothwell. 

Perhaps Rothwell could go on the right and Downing the left (agree he'll have been sold us as a regular starter) as Armstrong hasn't covered himself in glory? Either way it's not long term planning and will result in our younger players not developing. But I agree it'll be an anyone but Rothwell situation for most of the time. 

Downing hasn't got the pace, tackling ability, heading ability, necessary aggression to play left back to the standard required. Having said that all of Bell, Williams and Hart are lacking most of those ingredients also.

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4 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

It’s always one or the other - black or white, as if anyone who thinks some of the “reactionary tosh” is unwarranted, is automatically “happy clapping”.

You know - there’s plenty of middle ground where you can be critical of certain process but still think changing manager is a ludicrous choice.

End of the day - people are welcome to make their own assertions, and if they aren’t prepared to hear what others might think, they’re better off not bothering in the first place. As I said, regardless of taking it out context, I would suggest any opinion that believes TM should be sacked ASAP, has no real understanding of football.

If you find that annoying, or patronising - I’d take some of your own advice about accepting others opinions on BRFCS! 

And yet you fail to understand the point that most of us know that he won't be sacked after one game... Carry on fella. 

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11 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

 

I would suggest any opinion that believes TM should be sacked ASAP, has no real understanding of football.

Although this thread is called "Mowbray Out", it's hardly full of people claiming TM should be immediately sacked is it? 

It's full of people voicing concerns about the manager, often long held concerns, not just about 1 game of football,  but about a a whole load of different areas of the club - recruitment, team sheets, tactics, substitutions etc etc

 I think most people would accept maybe 10 games or so would probably be a sensible scale to measure this season and the manager.  

But this thread now exists to continue that ongoing assessment as those games progress.

And looking at our fixture list, our squad list, and TM's insistence on doing exactly the same thing week in, week out - I would expect this thread to get very busy over the next few months.

I hope I'm wrong though. As I'm sure do most Rovers fans. 

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Just now, Silas said:

Although this thread is called "Mowbray Out", it's hardly full of people claiming TM should be immediately sacked is it? 

It's full of people voicing concerns about the manager, often long held concerns, not just about 1 game of football,  but about a a whole load of different areas of the club - recruitment, team sheets, tactics, substitutions etc etc

 I think most people would accept maybe 10 games or so would probably be a sensible scale to measure this season and the manager.  

But this thread now exists to continue that ongoing assessment as those games progress.

And looking at our fixture list, our squad list, and TM's insistence on doing exactly the same thing week in, week out - I would expect this thread to get very busy over the next few months.

I hope I'm wrong though. As I'm sure do most Rovers fans. 

Finally someone who gets it. Good post. 

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1 hour ago, JHRover said:

What Mowbray says and what Mowbray does/what actually happens are two very different things. So his comments in the Telegraph I tend to ignore these days. Very little of what he promised has actually materialised. Be it new defenders, new style of play etc. 

I was looking at his comments the day after selling Raya that he wanted an 'experienced' keeper in to replace him. The inference being that Raya wasn't experienced and that was the problem. He then goes and signs Christian Walton on loan from Brighton, who has 30 odd games at this level with Wigan under his belt and less than 100 career appearances on loan at various lower league clubs. So a similar number of career appearances to Raya but less at Championship level. 

Now maybe we will go and get this experienced keeper Mowbray said he wanted but my money is on nobody else arriving before Thursday as things have gone very quiet and we don't tend to be very good at doing late urgent business. Our deals take weeks to get over the line. 

These sort of comments are what is costing Mowbray big time in my view. He seems to 'get it' when talking to the fans and press but then what he actually does is completely different and he tries to cover for that afterwards.

 

Correct.

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1 hour ago, JHRover said:

What Mowbray says and what Mowbray does/what actually happens are two very different things. So his comments in the Telegraph I tend to ignore these days. Very little of what he promised has actually materialised. Be it new defenders, new style of play etc. 

I was looking at his comments the day after selling Raya that he wanted an 'experienced' keeper in to replace him. The inference being that Raya wasn't experienced and that was the problem. He then goes and signs Christian Walton on loan from Brighton, who has 30 odd games at this level with Wigan under his belt and less than 100 career appearances on loan at various lower league clubs. So a similar number of career appearances to Raya but less at Championship level. 

Now maybe we will go and get this experienced keeper Mowbray said he wanted but my money is on nobody else arriving before Thursday as things have gone very quiet and we don't tend to be very good at doing late urgent business. Our deals take weeks to get over the line. 

These sort of comments are what is costing Mowbray big time in my view. He seems to 'get it' when talking to the fans and press but then what he actually does is completely different and he tries to cover for that afterwards.

 

We couldn't get the targets over the line.

Hard to know where the line in that between actually trying for some and it being a convenient excuse because he's used most of the budget elsewhere again is.

I accept we'll have been knocked back by a few but not sure how serious they've been i think he's definitely got himself distracted in the pursuit of Downing and Gallagher and i don't swallow the we can't afford this that and the other line, too many things contradict it when big money is sloshed about in certain quarters.

He's ballsed up on the defence for the second summer in succession and 3rd window on the trot plain and simple, so far.  The City kid will not be the answer i can guarantee that although hopefully he'll at least bring something if he can live up to his billing.

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