That makes more sense to me. Thanks for explaining.

Honestly, I don't know how the R rate tallies with player value. I'm assuming the figures for xG, xA and whatever else, can be interpreted to show that player x creates y amount of quality chances, plays z amount of key balls etc. My takeaway from the R rate quote is that it is a way to measure success. The better those metrics are the more the club is improving and players are developing. But like you said, if those figures are low, then what?

Yeah, that is how it feels. Wing it and hope has been the story of the last 13 years. There's no better example of that than the words of Venkatesh Rao in that "we are confused" interview. When asked about the situation at Rovers at the time and how things could be improved, he said: "We are good people. We have never done harm to anybody. We believe things will turn around for us". 10 years on...

That's fair enough, joey. I don't have an issue with player development per se. It's when that is the be all and end all, primary concern, as it appears to be now which gets to me. A poster said it recently, the Academy should be supplementing our first team. The lads who are highly thought of being blooded in amongst experienced pros, not being thrown in as we have little other choice. Part of me feels the budgets are as they are to leave the manager no choice but to play those youngsters.

Funny you should say that, as I made the following point about his time at Luton shortly after we appointed him. It was jumped upon by a few on here leaping to his defence. Whilst he was there, they suffered back to back relegations and went through allsorts. I wasn't blaming him for that. However, years later he's reeling off what he did there such as: overseeing the integration of x amount of youngsters make it into the first team, Academy players getting x amount of first team minutes, increasing squad value over those years and selling players at a profit. My point was, the club lost on the pitch, badly, you could say with back to back relegations, but he's listing off those metrics/measures as positives. I simply don't want that sort of thing here. Plausible scenario that we go down to L1, fans are gutted, but somewhere in the Boardroom they are thinking 'Well, we got £20m for Adam, we also got £6m for Hayden, we've continued to blood the Academy lads, it's not all that bad, we go again'. If he was the Head of Academy here I wouldn't have an issue, that's his forte. But as a Director of Football, basically running the whole football operation? A role he's never been in? Not for me.

Forgot to reply to this part. Yes. If you recall, JDT, a few months back said "the club needs to be ambitious" and "I am ambitious, my players are ambitious, and the fans are ambitious". He has tried to get Swag to meet his ambition via the press. However, when he realised this wasn't forthcoming he has gone with the party line of development, overseeing a project etc. I suspect he is just as peed off as we are in private.

The R rate has to do with xG, xG conceded and all that jazz. Having good numbers or data in those metrics is a measure of success, apparently. Below is a quote from Broughton from the podcast that I mentioned. If you scroll down on the following link you will find it under section 5: https://trainingground.guru/articles/gregg-broughton-youth-development-lessons-from-bodo/glimt The interview can also be listened to at the top of that page and R rating is mentioned at around 12 minutes in. Anyway, GB: In my Technical Director course, my final dissertation was on Goodhart’s law, which is around the suggestion that when a measure becomes a target it stops being effective. So these measures are points where you can check in on the club’s dashboard and see whether you’re on target for your aims. I spoke to Phil Giles (Brentford Co-Director of Football) about Brentford’s use of the 'R rating.' They came away from having promotion to the Premier League as the measure and talked more about their R rating, which is Xg, Xg conceded, and all of the different things they could do to improve that, from sport science to coaching. He felt that rating could be used at any club he worked at. My rough translation of that: 1) Applying Goodhart's law to Rovers, having promotion as a target stops it being an effective measure of success. (How does that make sense?) 2) Brentford changed from having promotion to the Premier League as a measure of success, and instead started focusing on improving their xG, xG conceded, xA and all of that I.e their R rating. Improving those things helped them to be successful. Data crunching gobbledygook, imo. Having promotion as a direct target doesn't seem to be his or their thing. We can't be putting pressure on anybody at this club. After all, it's the act of bullies to want to win.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I base that on what I have heard Broughton say in various interviews. Him talking about the 'R rate' being one measure of success, the number of Academy players in the first team another, the number of minutes they play being another. Developing players and selling them on will undoubtedly be a part of "winning" too ( for him and his superiors) No doubt that whilst most of us on here are analysing the games, airing concerns about results/performances and discussing issues at the club, Broughton and Co will be nonplussed and will be taking things such as: A good 70 minutes in the legs for young Jake. Another 90 minutes for Adam. Good 70 minute run out for Semir And more... As small victories. Winning football matches, though? Making a play off push? Even having a thought about promotion? Nah, mate. You're entitled and need to get real.

The messed up thing is, JDT is stubbornly sticking to this style of football, regardless of results, because he/they feel it is the best way to "increase player value". He said as much himself last season. I feel he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. His remit is to add player value and he's trying to meet that by playing this tippy tappy football. However, he also wants to win, just like all of us here want for the club, and I think he feels there's no other way to do that with this squad, with it's lack of depth, but to just attack and be quite open. It's naive at times, stubborn and crazy at times, and he needs to be more pragmatic in certain games, but I genuinely think he's trying to balance "adding player value" against "I want to win football matches. He should not be having to worry about adding player value. That is bullshit set down by clowns who know nothing about football. On the advice of who, is my question. Which other manager in the top 2 Divisions is having to concern himself with increasing player value? It's bollocks. The balancing act is going badly wrong at the moment, but the losers above him are fine with the situation because they only value the former (increasing player value) and care not about the latter (winning matches).

I recall listening to a Broughton interview in the summer on some podcast, where he was talking about his football philosophy and how he operates. He stated, in clear terms, the importance of owners "holding their nerve" and sticking with a project even if things are going wrong. He said words to the effect of it being very easy for owners to change tack, or to make rash decisions or to scrap 'projects' altogether when the situation looks bleak. His advice to owners in that scenario, according to him, would be to stick with it, things will get better and you'll see the fruits later. If anybody is hoping that Broughton will step in at some point if things become even worse for us these next few months and recommend a change either in manager, system, the project etc, you will be left disappointed. He will likely be doing the exact opposite, I.e telling the likes of Suhail to stick with the process, based on that interview that I heard. Swag already doesn't give a shit, he won't be recommending anything to anybody, unless we become stuck in the bottom three. We must be the only club in England where results mean nothing and where "winning" has a different definition to that which everybody else understands. A reminder of what we're dealing with: GB: "So, I think we need to have a definition of what winning looks like for Blackburn Rovers, and for me that's very clear. Clearly, it's just improving our performance every single day and in every single month and every single year".

Mine isn't working either. I'm just seeing the buffering circle.

You're right, but in their world it's probably cheaper and easier (for them) to stay as we are. What promotion to the Premier League would result in for them: 1) Increased spotlight and global attention towards the Club. Let's put aside the potential for anything being discovered or revisited for a moment. Despite the views of those who think Rovers are smaller than the likes of Plymouth, Bolton etc, Rovers being back in the Premier League would be a story in itself. Former Premier League champions back after 15 (for example) years. "How come they have been away for so long?" "How did they get relegated last time?" "Are those chicken people still there?" "Will we still get the full Darwen End?". Promotion means Rovers aren't the forgotten club anymore. Some may laugh, but Rovers being a part of the FPL game again would be a big deal too in attracting eyeballs, new fans and admirers. It has millions of players around the world. New audience, more attention. Aside from that, there would be global attention on the club all of a sudden, simply by virtue of being in the big League again. Obviously, not as much as the big boys get, but a heck of a lot more than at present. Look at Sheff Utd and Luton. Nobody on the outside gives them a second thought when they are in the Championship. Now, however, in the prem, there are plenty of fans/journalists etc interested in what they are doing, who their players are, their tactics, their signings, their transfer spend, their approach to the season etc. IMO, all of the above are things that this lot don't want. Why? Because the spotlight and attention would bring actual pressure and some form of expectation on them. Pressure to actually achieve something I.e to stay up, initially. When things are going wrong there would be some form of scrutiny, because that's what happens in the Premier League. Criticism via the press. Some accountability. Things that make the likes of Swag and Co sweat. It's much easier to stay low key in the Championship and push the "woe is us, oh that blasted FFP, if only there was no FFP, the owners are devastated they can't spend, they really want to, oh if only, oh those parachute payments too, oh it's so sad" narrative that is constantly peddled out. 2) Increased spend on transfers and wages If Rovers went up we would have to spend significantly in order to stay up. Certainly, our transfer and wage budgets would have to increase significantly compared to what they are now. It's true at any level, but especially in the Premier League, if you want quality, you have to pay for it. Spending £15m on a striker for example, is seen as small fry in the Premier League today. It would be a massive fee for us and these owners, especially when considering the past decade. Imagine going from Ennis, Telalovic, Hirst, to spending £8m/£10m/£15m on better players in the Prem, under these owners. No, me neither. I don't believe this lot have the desire or appetite to spend what would be required in the Premier League. (£10m on O'Brien? Ha.) Therefore, here we are with another 'project'. A money saving sham, IMO, Spend buttons on players, play the kids and hope to develop and sell a few every now and then. Who is the next big sale after Adam Wharton? At the heart of this sham project, IMO, is the ploy of using the Academy as it's centrepiece. The bastards advising them know that most of the fans will back the Academy lads and won't get on their backs as much. No pressure. No expectation. Not a surprise we often see: "Young lads, get behind them, what do you expect, you're spoilt, you're entitled, we've got no money" arguments amongst the fans, whilst the club goes backwards. It's a development project by design, by the wish of the owners. This charade cannot be carried out in the Premier League, where results are all that matters. 3) Increased fan expectation They have spent 13 years trying to lower fan expectation, lowering the standards every year, coming up with sob stories and showing zero ambition. Promotion would put an end to all of that. The fans would have hope again and would be keen to see what we do with the huge financial rewards for going up. Increased fan pressure and expectation. Questions being asked. The very things that this hierarchy dreads. Much easier to have fans believe that this is: a) our 'natural' level, b) that we need to be wary of relegation, and c) that the dreams of our generous owners, who wanted to be kind to us, have been crushed again for another year. This time by the Indian Government. Yeah, right.

Not sure about the red button. However, there is a stream available for UK viewers on Rovers TV tonight. £10.

From winning the World Cup at Ewood a few Friday's ago to... Fist bumps from their gobshite of a manager, to... A bus parade through Preston to celebrate beating Rovers, to... One win in seven. Sounds about right for that lot. Lowe Out! (Or something like that)

On this day 18 years ago:

21. Mike Newell

It's evident from that clip just how much Bentley enjoyed his time here, and Sav too. Brad, Nelsen, Pedersen, to name a few, have also said similar, all looking back fondly on those days as the best times of their career. Shows what an excellent setup we had. Bentley touches on it at the end there, and I've heard him say it elsewhere too, about his return to Rovers on loan in 2013. Words few in number, but words that resonate deeply: "It just wasn't the same club anymore". Still, he was a heck of a player for us and I'm glad that he regards his happiest playing memories being whilst playing for Rovers.

Exactly. I see some fans of other clubs give us stick about empty seats and they talk about how they would back the team through "thick and thin" and how we have "shit fans" etc. I would like to see how they would fare having to endure 13 years of a Venky circus, where there has not been one ounce of ambition shown from the hierarchy, where a flow of chancers have walked through the doors and where the fans have been taken for fools since minute one of the takeover. Owners ignoring us being inside the top 6 for two consecutive January's. Then the CEO, months after finishing 7th, openly announcing that the aim is to avoid relegation and to develop players. Openly disputing the manager's ambitious view of the 'project'. They'd all put up with that, would they? Look at how the likes of United, Everton and West Ham fans have been rallying against their owners recently. That's after having spent hundreds of millions of pounds on signings. United, over a billion! 13 years of these bastards would finish a lot of those fans off. Never mind PNE, Dingles and the like. It's very easy for them, as outsiders, to give it large when they have no idea what damage has been done to the club and the fan base since 2010. They aren't living it. I fully agree with your last paragraph too. Decent people who care, coupled with a bit of ambition and we could reach 17-18,000. As it stands, we are lucky to still get as much as we do, imo. Fair play to all that still attend regularly.

That is absurd, it really is. This, for a Club that is apparently in need of all the income it can raise, if the talk of the restrictions on the morons in Pune is to be believed. Somebody mentioned the other day how Fielder's vision was to have an empty stadium on match days, with fans watching the match via virtual reality and being able to 'go' wherever they wanted in the ground during the game. I don't think he was alone in having that vision. The way the Riverside has been shut for cup games over the years, the Blackburn End recently and now this, I think the car salesman has the same idea. Fans watching from home using VR headsets and the savings that can be made from an empty stadium, are the stuff of dreams for somebody like him.

Yeah, he would probably do alright for them. I think he's a better manager than Lowe. My 'in for a shock' comment was regarding that PNE poster saying Mowbray doesn't talk bullshit in interviews. It won't take him long at all on that side of it.

It's like I was saying on another thread: Inferiority complex.

Seems like Mowbray's popular over there. A number of them are putting his name forward as their preferred choice. The usual stuff is being trotted out about him being a 'proper' football man, his teams playing attractive football etc. There's one guy saying another plus point is that Mowbray doesn't talk bullshit in his interviews. Hahaha. Deary me. That poster is in for a big shock on that front if Mowbray ends up there.

Along with comments from Broughton such as: 1. "For Blackburn Rovers to be back in the Premier League we have to overachieve". 2. ""So, I think we need to have a definition of what winning looks like for Blackburn Rovers, and for me that's very clear. Clearly, it's just improving our performance every single day and in every single month and every single year". Add to that, the owners failing to spend from a relative position of strength two consecutive January's running, what message does all of that send to everybody at the club? There is absolutely no pressure or expectation on any of them. The only guy who is on our (the fans) wavelength, mentality wise, is JDT. Apparently it was just shite and conspiracy on a forum that none of the hierarchy are arsed about promotion, but when the CEO himself is saying the aim is just to stay in this Division and develop players...it shows the so called moaners have every right to call this out.

Certain Championship games now being written off is awful to see. Once again, this goes back to the morons at the top who couldn't care less about what is happening. Why bother about promotion when we can just develop players? We'll 'lease' players and play the Academy players, that'll save us some money, right, Mrs Desai? It's easier to use FFP and parachute payments as shields when you don't give a shit. Arrogant cowards, the lot of them, from the Board up. The message is simple. If it's too costly for you, Balaji, you know what you and the rest of your family can go and do. The way the Indian Government is moving, we might not be too far away from getting what many of us wish for. Ian Darke (commentator) had it right about us yesterday. He said Rovers have shown a lack of ambition and an inferiority complex from minute one of this game. 'Lack of ambition' and 'inferiority complex'. I think those two descriptions don't just sum up yesterday, but the entire 13 year operation. Very disheartening to see us like that yesterday, not getting anywhere near Championship opposition, and it just having to be accepted.

20. David Bentley