[Archived] Rovers V Citeh

[Majiball]

Majiball, completely agree. We need a natural right back and have needed one for a while - Emerton is not the answer there.

Lets hope Sam sees it too.

Setanta Canada just showed the game in full again, so I had a good look at the last 10 mins.

There is no way Nelsen called for the ball for the 1st - which he clearly should have - he wasn't shaping up at all to go for the ball even though it should have been his.

As to my Emerton question, yes I see now that he went into central midfield and I can report that, following the switch, he touched the ball 4 times each time giving it straight to a City player, the first of which led directly to their first goal. If he is the answer to central midfield, I don't understand the question. He also stood around like a statue for the 2nd, neither challenging Sturridge or covering anyone.

Derbs and Ooijer were clearly the main culprits but I don't think too many other players can point fingers; it was a team failure to defend what were two easily containable situations.

Completely agree we made too many individual errors (Oh my god I sound like Ince) as people have pointed out in those dying minutes.

We lost a lot of shape in the final minutes especially once Tugay ssssttttttrrrrrrooooolllllllleeeeddddd off the pitch, the commentator was right only an old head like him would have thought to walk to the other side of the pitch before he's subbed in a game like that. Tug's organises our midfield with out him we have no general, and our technical level drops drastically. Its something we must deal with we've needed to replace him for years. At the rate he's going he'll take Teddy's record.

I can't remember who it was but someone said our subs weakened our team their right. I just don't understand why Vogel did not get the nod in the middle guess no-one rates him.

I'm surprised by emo in the middle I feel its where he could do the most damage in the long run, but it an alien role to him like Derb's on the wing.

[1864roverite]

oh or the wisdom that is Waggy

I waited a full 24hrs or so to take my post as I was on the lash before and after the game and got home slightly worse for drink.

Lets be brutal, ROVERS have suddenly become an organised team once more and they played great. The improvement is there for all to see, there was effort and pride, there was togetherness and harmony and it was only the two basic errors that cost us 2 points.

It is my view, like others, that the blame lies solely at the feet of Ooijer.

Goal 1 - poor clearance and it should have been hoofed out of the ground.

Goal 2 - shocking positional play and a criminal act of neglect leaving Robbino out on his todd with a free run on goal. If there is any mitigation, then also blame Matty Derbyshire for two things, that awful pass to give the ball back to City and the fact that he was on the right side near the area when that ball went towards the city player.

I thought on the whole, Rovers were balanced. In eating a piece, a small one at that, of humble pie, I would even say that in the first half, Andrews played well, however, in the second half he went awol and didnt contribute much to the cause. Agreed he had a shot on target but the reality is is that he had 2 Rovers players that he should have passed to instead of shooting from a tight angle.

Tugay was like a man possessed, the only let down for him was his awful tackle that got him booked. Being so early, he could easily have cost us the game by getting a second yellow.

The defence looked solid and City rarely troubled, I dont recall Robbo making a save of any sort.

We clearly need a central midfielder now, someone with bit of artistry, a bit of nastiness and nouse and a bit of guile. Personally I think there are a couple of players who may fit the bill. Nicky Butt or Kevin Nolan spring to mind. Loads of guffaws I hear, but a player of tha ilk is the short term answer.

Up front, Benni and Roberts continue to hit it off, both scored and played well.

Am surprised noone has mentioned the Samba/Derbyshire incident immediately after the equaliser. Looked a full on slap from the big man. Derbyshire clearly skedaddled as we saw him leaving the ground on his own 20 minutes after the game, no time for fans just wanted away.

Saddened by the loss of 4 points over Christmas but heartened by the displays.

No matter what you say, in 3 games, Sam Allardyce has swept the club clean of Ince's cobwebs and it looks a lot healthier.

Bring on Blyth.

[Bobby G]

Samba slapped Derbs?

[bennyboyt11]

Am surprised noone has mentioned the Samba/Derbyshire incident immediately after the equaliser. Looked a full on slap from the big man. Derbyshire clearly skedaddled as we saw him leaving the ground on his own 20 minutes after the game, no time for fans just wanted away.

A slap?! When did this happen? Sure your not thinking of the Stoke game?

[RevidgeBlue]

After 85 minutes yesterday Sam must have thought this management lark was easy, cruising to a third successive clean sheet and seven points out of nine.

Then the 2008 version of the "rubber-dinghy men" (copyright Brian Kidd) reminded us all why we're only separated from the bottom of the table by goal difference and how they managed to lose Ince his job before half the season was out. I've never been so disappointed by a result but long term it might turn out to be a positive thing if it prompts Sam and the Board into addressing the glaring weaknesses in the squad rather than fooling the manager into thinking nothing is wrong.

Primary responsibility for the collapse must lie with Ooijer. At 2-0 we're in no danger and under no pressure. At 2-1 it's always going to be nerve wracking. To needlessly head a ball across our own area was absolutely unforgiveable - that's the first thing you learn at school isn't it? - never pass the ball along your own area. Dutch international my a***. He must have cost us at least half a dozen goals this season, starting in the very first game away at Everton. I said earlier in the season that considering the standard he's meant to be playing at he's one of the worst defenders I've seen in a Rovers shirt and yesterday merely confirmed that view. An absolute liability. What's happened to Simpson? I think he's done pretty well whenever he's played and at least he's in his natural position.

The other thing which caused us problems was the introduction of Mokoena. I thought Andrews and Tugay did very well together yesterday, Andrews and Mokoena was a complete non-starter as we retreated back to the edge of our own area and wastefully gave the ball away time after time. As I also said earlier in the season imo Mokoena is so poor he's the player no-one can play with. We urgently need to strengthen central midfield in January with genuine quality. On the four minutes added time I though Tugay really overdid his traditional slowest ever walk off from the Riverside touchline, shaking everyone's hand and saluting the crowd and maybe that irritated Webb into adding on a couple of extra minutes.

On the plus side Nelsen looks a completely different player under Allardyce than Ince, maybe if he'd pulled his finger out a bit more when Ince was here he wouldn't have got the sack and we wouldn't be in such a bad position as we are now.

Up front I thought Roberts and Benni worked superbly well together although I would have given McCarthy the MOM award. I thought he was fantastic. Just wondering if he was trying to impress Mark Hughes? If they could keep up that standard we could probably just about cope with the loss of RSC although I've no real confidence Benni would have the inclination to keep up that standard once the transfer window closes. Just a thought, if Mark Hughes wants RSC that badly, how about cash + Sturridge?

Overall though I'm extremely worried after yesterday. We managed to pull only two points out of what should have been six points out of six and it's anyone's guess how that will affect us psychologically. With three minutes to go of normal time yesterday we were looking at being only seven points off last season's seventh place, as it is we're still well adrift of safety. Under Ince I kept saying to myself "We'll we OK if we can do this that and the other." But we never did. Hope it doesn't turn into the same old story under Sam.

[gumboots]

A slap?! When did this happen? Sure your not thinking of the Stoke game?

No, he's not. My son saw it and commented on it. Was surprised the ref didn't see it and deal with it. Was just very annoyed with him for not taking the ball into the corner and keeping possession when we finally got out of our own area.

[elwaxo]

I think a bit of perspective is needed, considering what might have happened to us against city if ince had sent the team out, we should be grateful, gutting as it (the equaliser) was. I think we're headed in the right direction and ultimately we should stay up if we keep improving as we are doing.

[chris]

Sorry Nelsen cannot possible see what we can in the replay he's watching his man and the ball. He may have gone mental at him but that doesn't mean he was right to do so.

Ooijer is a centre half who on occasion can do a job at right back.

your only refering to the second goal right? Nelsen had the best view in the ground for the first goal, that was an Ooojier error to desperately head across the goal, school boy stuff

evidently its a matter of opinion as to whether the second goal was Oojier error again

what matters is what Sam thinks, he would probably put the blame on a few people

I'd be happy with a decent right back in the window

[RevidgeBlue]

As a side issue our bench made extremely depressing reading before the game yesterday.

Brown, Zurab, Vogel, Treacy, Olssen, Derbyshire, Mokoena.

That just showed for me:

1) How far we have slipped behind the majority of Premiership Clubs due to years of no net investment in the squad.

2) How disappointing the output from the Academy has been over the years and

3) How well Sam will actually be doing just to keep us up.

[chris]

No, he's not. My son saw it and commented on it. Was surprised the ref didn't see it and deal with it. Was just very annoyed with him for not taking the ball into the corner and keeping possession when we finally got out of our own area.

he learnt his lesson then, probably a phone clip going around on you tube

[John]

As a side issue our bench made extremely depressing reading before the game yesterday.

Brown, Zurab, Vogel, Treacy, Olssen, Derbyshire, Mokoena.

Thought the same. Cannot get too excited looking at the bench.

Midfield (centre in particular) has been a problem for a while now and still has not been sorted. Wonder if January will see a decent attempt to rectify this. Slight issue is we are quite top heavy in numbers in that position when everyone is fit.

[joey_big_nose]

As a side issue our bench made extremely depressing reading before the game yesterday.

Brown, Zurab, Vogel, Treacy, Olssen, Derbyshire, Mokoena.

That just showed for me:

1) How far we have slipped behind the majority of Premiership Clubs due to years of no net investment in the squad.

2) How disappointing the output from the Academy has been over the years and

3) How well Sam will actually be doing just to keep us up.

It is funny because at one point we did have quite a strong bench but injuries has decimated it, plus people like Carlos who a lot of hope was attached to have not performed.... If everone was fit then we could have a bench like:

Bunn, Zurab, Vogel, Andrews, Tugay, Cruz, Derbyshire

Which wouldn't be too bad by prem standards. Plus we will definately be strengthening in Jan so i think we should be okay.

Right about the academy output though. When you look at the talent city have reaped on top of having millions to spend it makes you want to weep. One of the big things is that in physical size the Man City youngsters are massive. On the other hand Derbyshire and Gallagher are bean poles and Olsson not much better.

[American]

Thought the same. Cannot get too excited looking at the bench.

Midfield (centre in particular) has been a problem for a while now and still has not been sorted. Wonder if January will see a decent attempt to rectify this. Slight issue is we are quite top heavy in numbers in that position when everyone is fit.

My thought when they gave the lineups was that City had some quality players that could change the game late, while we didn't have anyone I'd be happy to see if we needed a late goal. Sadly, I didn't even factor Sturridge into that equation.

[joey_big_nose]

Thought the same. Cannot get too excited looking at the bench.

Midfield (centre in particular) has been a problem for a while now and still has not been sorted. Wonder if January will see a decent attempt to rectify this. Slight issue is we are quite top heavy in numbers in that position when everyone is fit.

Depends how you look at it. We currently have Reid, Dunn, Grella, Tugay, Mokoena, Andrews and Vogel. Tugay is seen as a bit part player (although still doing an utterly commendable job for us). Mokoena is on his way out. Reid is out for the season, and I suspect probably going to move on if anyone will take him when he recovers. Vogel, unless he has a comeback Lazarus would be proud of, is also probably not going to be at Rovers in February if someone is willing to pay him.

So really we have Dunn, Grella and Andrews. Two of those are terminally unfit, the other is a squad player. A signing is quite justifiable even if Grella and Dunn do not recover. If either have serious long term problems (ie. in balanced judgment by the physio team they are not going to play less than 60% of the remaining games) then two CM signings could be in order.

[thenodrog]

As a side issue our bench made extremely depressing reading before the game yesterday.

Brown, Zurab, Vogel, Treacy, Olssen, Derbyshire, Mokoena.

Indeed. I cannot see many of them attracting the attention of a Prem club if we put them up for sale in January.

[grizfoot]

Am surprised noone has mentioned the Samba/Derbyshire incident immediately after the equaliser. Looked a full on slap from the big man. Derbyshire clearly skedaddled as we saw him leaving the ground on his own 20 minutes after the game, no time for fans just wanted away.

I didn't see anything, then again I had my head in my hands after they equalized.

[thenodrog]

On the plus side Nelsen looks a completely different player under Allardyce than Ince, maybe if he'd pulled his finger out a bit more when Ince was here he wouldn't have got the sack and we wouldn't be in such a bad position as we are now.

But that'd mean that we'd be facing the second half of the season with the 3 incompetents in charge, Fowler would have been re-signed and the future of the club would be in the hands of rank amateurs! I guess we'll have to agree that the players knew what they were about.

[RevidgeBlue]

But that'd mean that we'd be facing the second half of the season with the 3 incompetents in charge, Fowler would have been re-signed and the future of the club would be in the hands of rank amateurs! I guess we'll have to agree that the players knew what they were about.

Dangerous way to proceed, putting the very future of the club on the line, just to get rid of Ince and co.

[den]

On the plus side Nelsen looks a completely different player under Allardyce than Ince, maybe if he'd pulled his finger out a bit more when Ince was here he wouldn't have got the sack and we wouldn't be in such a bad position as we are now.

Just to follow Theno here, It is the same player we're talking about here Rev. The very same Nelsen who was deemed crap and should have been moved out under Ince. So don't you think that defence isn't just about the back four? As I've said before, in particular about Winterburn being brought in to coach the defence - defending starts from the front men. Since Sam has arrived, the front two [benni and Roberts] off the ball,have worked their socks off up front. That makes life a hell of a lot easier for the back four. I have to add as well, that Rocky never does his bit off the ball, as good a player that he is.

So there are two differences - Sam Allardyce and his organisation of the side and the work rate from the forwards, both of which have helped Nelsen.

[Paul]

Care to be more specific?

Have a wander through pages 9-13 if you want some examples. One which shouldn't offend anyone is the poster questioning the amount of injury time. 5 second half subs at 30 sec per sub accounts for 2.5 minutes, so 90 seconds for other stoppages seems about right?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

There was a Tugay sub though, it lasted about 10 minutes.

I've no idea how he got away with it to be honest, it was taking the mickey.

[thenodrog]

Dangerous way to proceed, putting the very future of the club on the line, just to get rid of Ince and co.

It appears to be becoming a time honoured tradition. In recent seasons Spuds have done it twice, and Pompey, Fulham, Wigan, Newcastle, Sland, City and even Lpool have all been partly guilty of the same tactic. Player power accounted for Grant too but Chelsea still had enough quality to do the business on the pitch.

'Get rid of bad players before they get rid of you' is now becoming the football managers motto.

[ABBEY]

that was the lowest(i think) following and the quietest following ive ever heard from city,very poor.They didnt even celebrate or get behind their team after the first goal.passionless.

[Blue n White Rover]

We would have been out the drop zone had we won yesterday after Boro's defeat today!

Just thought i'd share that with you

[philipl]

I think this business about Nelsen and Ince is nonsense.

I cannot recall a single unchallenged run through midfield straight at our defence at full pace by opponents since Allardyce was appointed. There used to be five or six such free runs each half under Ince.