[Archived] The Championship 2013/14

[ABBEY]

Don't worry lads .. We have been told they are doing a good job and it's all hunky dory

[Mike E]

Well I'll just retreat to the naughty step....

[Ricky]

You should know by now it's pretty much pointless trying to debate the subject on here mate.

[Mike E]

You should know by now it's pretty much pointless trying to debate the subject on here mate.

Indeed. Gotta laugh at how anything that isn't perfectly in line with some views gets derided as nonsense.

I'm hardly being unreasonable, nor am I suggesting Venkys are good for the club.

I'll keep it simple (almost to the point of talking to children). 'Has this season been better/less infuriating than any season under Venkys to date?'

If the answer to that question is yes, then I've no idea where the backlash at me has come from.

[booth]

Referring to being upset about the clubs recent downfall as crying over spilt milk wasn't the best move.

There's a good chance the club could never recover from the owners mistakes and some people have rather taken it to heart.

[Stuart]

I'll keep it simple (almost to the point of talking to children). 'Has this season been better/less infuriating than any season under Venkys to date?'

Like a long standing illness, the answer to that question must depend on whether we are getting better or worse. We have no idea right now, so trying to put a positive spin on things is a little hollow.

[patrickvalery]

I've seen them stick with a manager for a change (I'm sure sacking and hiring 3 lots of managers and coaches cost a bit).

Mike, i don't mean to jump on this as a means of attacking you. Heaven knows you've had enough of that! But i would argue that the mess we're in is in no small part down to the fact they stuck with an inept manager for way too long. I'm not suggesting Bowyer is inept (i've fought his corner many times), but this reputation of Venky's being trigger happy owners is a little premature imo. Yes Berg and Appleton got fired exceptionally quickly, but can anyone really sit here and argue they were wrong to do so? They were plain stupid in the contract they gave Berg, but apart from that those two seemed to be taking the club in one direction - downwards, and the decision to bin them off probably saved our skin in the end. Or at least prolonged the inevitable.

That said, my view on Venky's is crystal clear. They are god awful owners and the club has suffered inexplicable misery since they rocked up in their shoddy suits, dodgy moustaches and tartan blankets. The initial TV appearances they gave in their classless mansions with shirts unbuttoned, adorned in jewelry befitting of Mr T just served to make a mockery of themselves and our proud football club. They have saddled the club with levels of debt we could only imagine in our worst nightmares. Just because they have allegedly secured it against their own assets is of no consequence to me whatsoever. In my humble opinion they have been incredibly fortunate because there have been horror stories such as Coventry, Leeds, Pompey, Cardiff and Bolton to distract the medias beady eye. Such is the state of the English game that a club of our size can run up debt of this scale and nobody outside the area bats an eyelid.

If they somehow manage to make decisions which ultimately get us promoted, fund the building of a squad capable of staying in the PL, consolidate in the PL around midtable for a couple of seasons and still manage to reduce debt to around the £20m mark then i will readily admit they have broken even. We will be in a similar position to where we were when they rolled up. The chances of that are as likely as me discovering a winning lottery ticket down the back of my chez lounge this afternoon. Unliklely because 1. I'm at work all day. 2. Don't play the lottery and 3. Don't own a chez lounge.

[ABBEY]

You should know by now it's pretty much pointless trying to debate the subject on here mate.

Debate all you want .. The bottom line we are up @#/? creek , massive debts and we have been rapec and pillared . The cause VENKYSCUM .

[ABBEY]

Indeed. Gotta laugh at how anything that isn't perfectly in line with some views gets derided as nonsense.....IT HAS BEEN NONSENSE SINCE THE LUNES CAME

I'm hardly being unreasonable, nor am I suggesting Venkys are good for the club.....ER YOU SAID SAID YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THEM

I'll keep it simple (almost to the point of talking to children). 'Has this season been better/less infuriating than any season under Venkys to date?'

If the answer to that question is yes, then I've no idea where the backlash at me has come from.......EVERY SEASON IS INFRUIATING WITH THEM ..THIS SEASON ESPECIALLY AS PROMOTION WAS THERE FOR THE TAKING WITH AN EXPERIENCED MANAGER.

[47er]

You should know by now it's pretty much pointless trying to debate the subject on here mate.

Perhaps we should just pretend to agree with him then even though we don't? Is that what you mean by "debate"?

Anyone who thinks we are "crying over spilt milk" is going to get a debate alright aren't they? And rightly so.

[Mike E]

Patrickvalery, thanks for a proper response

Abbey: If you can find where I say (witjout a pretext) I'm happy with them, be my guest.

47er: Debating involves careful and considered response to opposing points of view. As patrickvalery has. 'Nonsense' and capital letters aren't that

Okay, so crying over spilt milk was a bit provocative. But I used that phrase, believing that it's completely futile to go on about it now. If we finish 12th or above, I'll believe we've improved (what I said preseason). If we make a playoff position next season, we'll have improved again.

It's based on supposition, but imo Venkys are not as destructive as they have been for 3 years prior to this season. How many people honestly believed they'd have kept Bowyer in the hotseat past Christmas?

[Ricky]

Abbey, all I'm saying is that it's impossible to debate with you. If anyone tried to debate on the matter of venky's with anything in the slightest but positive they are classed as venkylovers, if anyone tries to debate about any of Rhodes negative areas, they're Rhodes Haters. That's how it is with you. It's black or white. That's fine but it just means that it is impossible to debate with you as that's your view and you're unwilling to even consider anything outside of that.

Not a problem but just makes a debate on the pros and cons impossible.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Plenty of "cons" to debate, I can't think of one "pro". You've got to be pretty stupid to get every decision wrong. Tell me a "pro" and I'll debate it.

[Ricky]

Well I think the pro that Mike was trying to point out was that they were at last backing a manager, they were not taking advice from Shebby and Agents, that they were backing the current manager with the signings he wanted, that they hadn't sold Rhodes when everyone said he'd be gone, that they were trying to reduce the wage bill by shifting some big earners.

Now I know they have been up there with the worst owners in football history. That's plain to see. However as mike had said, this season has been the best since they took over. We are not in the papers through ridiculous quotes and controversy, we are actually seeing people return and we have a team that on it's day can match anyone in the league (see the man city home game)

I have long said that Bowyer is too negative but at least we are seeing a little bit of stability this season.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Mike, i don't mean to jump on this as a means of attacking you. Heaven knows you've had enough of that! But i would argue that the mess we're in is in no small part down to the fact they stuck with an inept manager for way too long. I'm not suggesting Bowyer is inept (i've fought his corner many times), but this reputation of Venky's being trigger happy owners is a little premature imo. Yes Berg and Appleton got fired exceptionally quickly, but can anyone really sit here and argue they were wrong to do so? They were plain stupid in the contract they gave Berg, but apart from that those two seemed to be taking the club in one direction - downwards, and the decision to bin them off probably saved our skin in the end. Or at least prolonged the inevitable.

That said, my view on Venky's is crystal clear. They are god awful owners and the club has suffered inexplicable misery since they rocked up in their shoddy suits, dodgy moustaches and tartan blankets. The initial TV appearances they gave in their classless mansions with shirts unbuttoned, adorned in jewelry befitting of Mr T just served to make a mockery of themselves and our proud football club. They have saddled the club with levels of debt we could only imagine in our worst nightmares. Just because they have allegedly secured it against their own assets is of no consequence to me whatsoever. In my humble opinion they have been incredibly fortunate because there have been horror stories such as Coventry, Leeds, Pompey, Cardiff and Bolton to distract the medias beady eye. Such is the state of the English game that a club of our size can run up debt of this scale and nobody outside the area bats an eyelid.

If they somehow manage to make decisions which ultimately get us promoted, fund the building of a squad capable of staying in the PL, consolidate in the PL around midtable for a couple of seasons and still manage to reduce debt to around the £20m mark then i will readily admit they have broken even. We will be in a similar position to where we were when they rolled up. The chances of that are as likely as me discovering a winning lottery ticket down the back of my chez lounge this afternoon. Unliklely because 1. I'm at work all day. 2. Don't play the lottery and 3. Don't own a chez lounge.

Excellent post.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Well I think the pro that Mike was trying to point out was that they were at last backing a manager, they were not taking advice from Shebby and Agents, that they were backing the current manager with the signings he wanted, that they hadn't sold Rhodes when everyone said he'd be gone, that they were trying to reduce the wage bill by shifting some big earners.

Now I know they have been up there with the worst owners in football history. That's plain to see. However as mike had said, this season has been the best since they took over. We are not in the papers through ridiculous quotes and controversy, we are actually seeing people return and we have a team that on it's day can match anyone in the league (see the man city home game)

I have long said that Bowyer is too negative but at least we are seeing a little bit of stability this season.

They're backing Bowyer because they don't know what else to do. I'm not sure Rhodes is in that big a demand given the fact he's playing kean and is lucky to be making a bang average Championship team. They're trying to shift the big earners that they allowed the club to sign in the first place. They knew the square root of kean all about football when the took over, three years later the haven't learnt a thing. Until they take a serious day to day interest in the club they never will. Of course that will mean moving from India to England so that will never happen.

[ABBEY]

Patrickvalery, thanks for a proper response

Abbey: If you can find where I say (witjout a pretext) I'm happy with them, be my guest.

47er: Debating involves careful and considered response to opposing points of view. As patrickvalery has. 'Nonsense' and capital letters aren't that

Okay, so crying over spilt milk was a bit provocative. But I used that phrase, believing that it's completely futile to go on about it now. If we finish 12th or above, I'll believe we've improved (what I said preseason). If we make a playoff position next season, we'll have improved again.

It's based on supposition, but imo Venkys are not as destructive as they have been for 3 years prior to this season. How many people honestly believed they'd have kept Bowyer in the hotseat past Christmas?

Though personally, I'm 'okay at best' as long as Venkys stay as they are currently.....OKAY THEN YOUR NOT HAPPY BUT YOUR OKAY WITH THEM>

But that Venkys are attempting to rectify that is to their credit......................................THEIR CREDIT? ITS THEIR FAULT!

Venkys are not as destructive as they have been for 3 years prior to this season.......THEYVE DESTROYED NEARLY EVERYTHING ALREADY..NOT MUCH LEFT TO DESTROY

Abbey, all I'm saying is that it's impossible to debate with you. If anyone tried to debate on the matter of venky's with anything in the slightest but positive they are classed as venkylovers, if anyone tries to debate about any of Rhodes negative areas, they're Rhodes Haters. That's how it is with you. It's black or white. That's fine but it just means that it is impossible to debate with you as that's your view and you're unwilling to even consider anything outside of that.

Not a problem but just makes a debate on the pros and cons impossible.

IMPOSSIBLE TO DEBATE? WHY?

NOT USED VENKY LOVER IN AGES BUT IF THE CAP FITS

SO PEOPLE SLATE /SLAG RHODES AND YET STILL LOVE HIM ..THAT BAFFLES ME.

THINGS ARE BLACK AND WHITE THOUGH.

OK GIVE ME ANY PROS ON VENKYS THEN AND I BETT FOR EVERY ONE YOU O THERES A DAMN SITE MORE NEGATIVES.

[McClarky]

This backing of the manager, according to Kamy on a recent podcast he was 1 game from the sack in December. So if we had lost at Leeds he would have been sacked and we would now hav e a new manager. Doesn't sound like stability to me, more like the lack of any kind of plan or intent to fix anything.

[thenodrog]

That said, my view on Venky's is crystal clear. They are god awful owners and the club has suffered inexplicable misery since they rocked up in their shoddy suits, dodgy moustaches and tartan blankets. The initial TV appearances they gave in their classless mansions with shirts unbuttoned, adorned in jewelry befitting of Mr T just served to make a mockery of themselves and our proud football club. They have saddled the club with levels of debt we could only imagine in our worst nightmares. Just because they have allegedly secured it against their own assets is of no consequence to me whatsoever. In my humble opinion they have been incredibly fortunate because there have been horror stories such as Coventry, Leeds, Pompey, Cardiff and Bolton to distract the medias beady eye. Such is the state of the English game that a club of our size can run up debt of this scale and nobody outside the area bats an eyelid.

As I predicted at the time to accusations from a number of frothy individuals of being racist / pessimistic / curmudgeonly etc etc. Funny how so many got sucked along with the billionaire Indians bullsh1t that was being peddled. Pretty damned obvious to anyone with an IQ above that of the average amoeba that BRFC being a perrenial loss making business and effectively the club is financially not viable and that is why it had taken the Trust years to offload.

Funny too how many were glad to see the back of then Walker Trust! I tend to concur with the old marital advice "Look after t'first, cos next'll be worst". Even more peculiar is that no one now appears to be willing to own up to being wrong back in 2010 isn't it? Almost unbelievable how thousands of supporters who stood to applaud to the rafters and and welcome the Rao brothers that day before the AV match (whilst I stayed and sulked in the concourse sipping a pint of very very bitter..to the point of being sour.. beer) were all so very wrong isn't it? No doubt there is some principle in psychology that covers the irrational spread of collective euphoria?

For my part I must admit to being mistaken back then too as the only thing that made any sense of the takeover from a business point of view was as a massive asset stripping operation. This could still happen of course but as a consequence of bad management, crooked advice, probable fraud and the chain of events that has occurred and not I now feel as an intended course of action from the off.

So now that much water has gone under the Aquaduct bridge how come the Rao's aren't allowed to have got it wrong too? As someone told me years ago... Everybody makes mistakes... it's why they put rubbers on pencils.

*btw Only one Rao has shoddy suits, shirt unbuttoned, gold chains etc... the other appears very different and seems mild mannered whilst displaying much humility. Same horse different jockey perhaps?

[thenodrog]

Debate all you want .. The bottom line we are up kean creek , massive debts and we have been rapec and pillared . The cause VENKYSCUM .

Bad comparison Abbey. Rapers and pillagers actually profit from their actions don't they? As far as I can determine at the moment the Venkys have been raped, and pillaged just as much as us well as well as being royally rogered and shafted too.

You might wish the Venky's had never heard of BRFC but I bet not half as much as they do!

[47er]

Well I think the pro that Mike was trying to point out was that they were at last backing a manager, they were not taking advice from Shebby and Agents, that they were backing the current manager with the signings he wanted, that they hadn't sold Rhodes when everyone said he'd be gone, that they were trying to reduce the wage bill by shifting some big earners.

Now I know they have been up there with the worst owners in football history. That's plain to see. However as mike had said, this season has been the best since they took over. We are not in the papers through ridiculous quotes and controversy, we are actually seeing people return and we have a team that on it's day can match anyone in the league (see the man city home game)

I have long said that Bowyer is too negative but at least we are seeing a little bit of stability this season.

So bowyer's job was definitely not in danger when we went to Leeds? You can say that with certainty?

(Sorry Mcclarky, wrote this without seeing your post above. Great minds eh?!!)

[thenodrog]

So bowyer's job was definitely not in danger when we went to Leeds? You can say that with certainty?

If it was I'd be amazed. Bowyer is just the manager not the CEO or Chairman. He's obviously been tasked (by whom I do not know) with getting us promoted whilst at the same time getting rid of half the squad, replacing expensive old with cheaper new and cutting overall operating costs massively. From my perspective he's not doing a bad job and I struggle to think who could do it much better. After the crap of the past 3 years what we need most is stability. Whether Bowyer has time on his side I can't say and only the venkymob know the answer to that.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Correct, it's down to them. But they are at least trying to get it right and (imo) there are signs that we may be better all-round next season (even behind the scenes). I feel 'crying over spilt milk' is the phrase here. I'm trying to look forward to something more positive than wallow in the doldrums of the last 3 years.

Your choice phrase could annoy people because it may be seen to trivialise the sense of loss damage to an important institution. For that reason, people will leap on it, I guess.

However, in all fairness, there is a certain, albeit unpalatable truth to your phrase. The damage is done, our premiership status has been p***d away, we are where we are...we can't change the past etc...we have to find a way to move forward.

It is only my opinion, but I am concerned that the club/fans will remain "stuck" and can never move forward without any acknowledgement from the perpetrators and clear statement about future plans or intentions. In fact,I am not sure we can ever move forward with these undeserving owners...unless 1)they radically change their style and probably 2) put us back where we were before they stumbled around our valuable china shop.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Bad comparison Abbey. Rapers and pillagers actually profit from their actions don't they? As far as I can determine at the moment the Venkys have been raped, and pillaged just as much as us well as well as being royally rogered and shafted too.

You might wish the Venky's had never heard of BRFC but I bet not half as much as they do!

I think the comparison works in that various shady characters certainly took advantage, and did things that met their own needs and gratification, in spite of the needs and wishes of the victim-in this case Blackburn Rovers...so Abbey's phrase works perfectly for me.

Anyway, I am sure a certain agent, egghead and lifelong fan profited somewhat.

As for the slumdog millionaires, I don't know yet what they are getting out of it. I am not ready to assign victim status to them because they fronted it all and bear a huge responsibility.

[thenodrog]

I think the comparison works in that various shady characters certainly took advantage, and did things that met their own needs and gratification, in spite of the needs and wishes of the victim-in this case Blackburn Rovers...so Abbey's phrase works perfectly for me.

Anyway, I am sure a certain agent, egghead and lifelong fan profited somewhat.

As for the slumdog millionaires, I don't know yet what they are getting out of it. I am not ready to assign victim status to them because they fronted it all and bear a huge responsibility.

Hence my rider Leonard which applies to all of us I suggest..... "As far as I can determine at the moment"