[Archived] The Rao's : We need a statement of intent for next Season.

[J*B]

Its not the end of the season without a BRFCS thread full of confusion about the owners wealth, the clubs debt, the possibility of the club going bankrupt and Mercerman going round and round in circles trying to explain.

[Mercer]

Its not the end of the season without a BRFCS thread full of confusion about the owners wealth, the clubs debt, the possibility of the club going bankrupt and Mercerman going round and round in circles trying to explain.

Round and round in circles ?

Just responding to some requests for clarification. Interesting that the realism of my observations is not challenged.

Just be thankful I am not charging my normal hourly rate !

[chaddyrovers]

We need a podcast to fully explain everything about the debt, loans and who they are secure against.

Unsure if we can arrange this with either PhilipL, Andy Neil or Mercerman explain this to all Brfcs members.

Used to really enjoyed the BRFCS podcast and the content and the people involved in them. Shame we not had one in around 1 year tho.

[roverandout]

Does kamy not do them anymore?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Round and round in circles ?

Just responding to some requests for clarification. Interesting that the realism of my observations is not challenged.

Just be thankful I am not charging my normal hourly rate !

Most of your observations were preceded by the word "if" and told us nothing we didn't know three years ago. How much an hour do your charge for such stunning insights as "If Mrs Desai loses interest we are goosed"?

[Neil Weaver]

Round and round in circles ?

Just responding to some requests for clarification. Interesting that the realism of my observations is not challenged.

Just be thankful I am not charging my normal hourly rate !

Quite the cushy number you've got going there MM.

"The sky is falling again. That'll be £50 please."

[Gav]

Most of your observations were preceded by the word "if" and told us nothing we didn't know three years ago. How much an hour do your charge for such stunning insights as "If Mrs Desai loses interest we are goosed"?

:lol:

I enjoy having mercer around but you're absolutely spot on EIT.

Round and round in circles ?

Just responding to some requests for clarification. Interesting that the realism of my observations is not challenged.

I challenged it yesterday.

Ian Battersby said that the debt wasn't secured on the club at the moment, Blackburn Rovers are not currently at risk with regards to the 80m and he'd know having tried to put a consortium together to buy the club.

[Mercer]

:lol:

I enjoy having mercer around but you're absolutely spot on EIT.

I challenged it yesterday.

Ian Battersby said that the debt wasn't secured on the club at the moment, Blackburn Rovers are not currently at risk with regards to the 80m and he'd know having tried to put a consortium together to buy the club.

Gav - I have never said the debt was secured on the club ! However, note BOI reserve the right to take a debenture over Rovers' assets (so it could very well happen).

At 30 June 2014, Rovers' creditors stood at £98million - one dreads to think what the number is now - and there were £20millionish+ of creditors outside VLL and BOI. When you are in financial intensive care (and that's what Rovers are given their dependency on Raos continuing substantial support) £20millionish+ is one big number and one big risk.

Finally, the world at Rovers has changed since Battersby was trying to put together a consortium. My view is that he would only be interested now in an insolvency situation.

Most of your observations were preceded by the word "if" and told us nothing we didn't know three years ago. How much an hour do your charge for such stunning insights as "If Mrs Desai loses interest we are goosed"?

I look forward to your insights on Rovers' financial position then. Let me have your address and I will post an abacus to you.

Simple fact is "If Mrs Desai loses interest we are goosed" !

[chaddyrovers]

Wasn't Battersby's comments from a few months ago?

[Mercer]

Quite the cushy number you've got going there MM.

"The sky is falling again. That'll be £50 please."

I said yesterday that finance in football often defies logic and that Rovers' position and structure is, IMV, peculiar - read into that what you will.

Wasn't Battersby's comments from a few months ago?

Think what you will find is that just months ago, Battersby said Rovers were 'unsellable'.

[G Somerset Rover]

My old man was working for a Venkys employee the other day who is quite high up in the pecking order, and from what he was saying it doesn't sound like they are looking to move on any time soon.

[Gav]

Nobody is saying Rovers are worth buying these days, but Ian was very clear on the point that the debt ISN'T secured on the club at the moment, that is still the case, nothing has changed as far as people in the know are aware.

Thats all that I'm saying, but of course things can change very quickly.

The time to start worrying is when the debt is moved on to the club, until then its all speculation and bunkum.

[JHRover]

Venkys can't go anywhere for some time, even if they actively wanted to. Unless they are able to write off more than £100 million just so they can be shut of the club then they are tied to it for the foreseeable future. Nobody is going to buy the club until the debt is erased and losses are brought under control. Even if they had people queuing round the block for the club Venkys seem the type of people who would turn them all away on principle and would probably be offended by approaches.

There's no indication that they have any interest or intention of walking away from the club, and never has been from the day they arrived. It is believed that they have had more than one approach over the last few years from people wanting to take the club off their hands and every time they haven't even bothered responding to approaches. I believe they see the club as part of their 'family' now and will only let it go if they absolutely have to, which doesn't seem to be likely any time soon.

We're stuck with them, whether we like it or not. The financial situation the club is in just adds to our reliance on them. I just hope that sooner or later their 'formula' comes good and combined with their continued investment we get promoted.

[Mercer]

Nobody is saying Rovers are worth buying these days, but Ian was very clear on the point that the debt ISN'T secured on the club at the moment, that is still the case, nothing has changed as far as people in the know are aware.

Thats all that I'm saying, but of course things can change very quickly.

The time to start worrying is when the debt is moved on to the club, until then its all speculation and bunkum.

Gav - debt is debt whether unsecured or secured.

The problem arises should you have insufficient funds to repay that debt as and when it becomes due.

[1arC]

My old man was working for a Venkys employee the other day who is quite high up in the pecking order, and from what he was saying it doesn't sound like they are looking to move on any time soon.

Did you use pecking order by accident? Oh the irony of it all!

[den]

Nobody is saying Rovers are worth buying these days, but Ian was very clear on the point that the debt ISN'T secured on the club at the moment, that is still the case, nothing has changed as far as people in the know are aware.

Thats all that I'm saying, but of course things can change very quickly.

The time to start worrying is when the debt is moved on to the club, until then its all speculation and bunkum.

How would Battersby know any more than any other financial analyst Gav? You say he's in the know, yet the Raos have refused to have any contact.

There's a number of posters on here who want some input on our finances, yet when they get it, they criticise those views and the posters - when it doesn't suit. Same happened with Philipl.

[Gav]

How would Battersby know any more than any other financial analyst Gav? You say he's in the know, yet the Raos have refused to have any contact.

There's a number of posters on here who want some input on our finances, yet when they get it, they criticise those views and the posters - when it doesn't suit. Same happened with Philipl.

Battersby was looking to buy the club den so I tend to believe what he says, because being in business he'll have covered all angles I assume.

The consortium will have done its homework.

As for being in the know, I'm not referring to Ian in the statement, but be assured, if that debt was moved or serviced we'd know on here from people like philipl.

[den]

Battersby was looking to buy the club den so I tend to believe what he says, because being in business he'll have covered all angles I assume.

Oh.

[phili]

Battersby was looking to buy the club den so I tend to believe what he says, because being in business he'll have covered all angles I assume.

The consortium will have done its homework.

As for being in the know, I'm not referring to Ian in the statement, but be assured, if that debt was moved or serviced we'd know on here from people like philipl.

He wasn't necessarily being accurate as there are loans that have been taken out using parachute payment income as collateral. It's debateable whether you classify this as an asset or not, as this has to be repaid in August with the parachute payment hits our bank, it'll be interesting how Venky's fund us next year as we won't have any parachute money to get a loan against so I assume they'll just have to increase borrowings from BOI by £30m to cover next year?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Gav - debt is debt whether unsecured or secured.

The problem arises should you have insufficient funds to repay that debt as and when it becomes due.

That's the point though, you have been inferring for years that they don't have the resources or the willpower to repay the debt when all the actual evidence, albeit limited, keeps showing the opposite. Surely the fact that the debt keeps rising to fund the ongoing losses shows that their credit is good, at least for the forseeable future?

[Mercer]

Battersby was looking to buy the club den so I tend to believe what he says, because being in business he'll have covered all angles I assume.

The consortium will have done its homework.

As for being in the know, I'm not referring to Ian in the statement, but be assured, if that debt was moved or serviced we'd know on here from people like philipl.

Unfortunately, a lot of confusion about Rovers' position arises due to the fact that some 99%+ of fans will not have the financial expertise to assimilate the facts and sort the wheat from the chaffe - and that is not being disrespectful to anyone; a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Firstly, from what we know, and Battersby has confirmed this, the Raos have blanked Battersby and his consortium. The only way any prospective purchaser can do its 'homework' is by carrying out due diligence. Due diligence is carried out by professionals (accountants and lawyers) of a would be purchaser and is a critical process that can't be overlooked. It looks at the hard facts in order to gauge potential financial, legal and regulatory exposures in addition to providing insights into a company's structure, ways of working, supplier / customer relationships, strategic positioning, culture and last but not least, future outlook. You can see why the Raos might not want folk poking their noses in !

Secondly, debt can't simply be moved ! The facts are in black and white in the accounts for year ended June 2014 that Rovers have creditors of almost £100million and this number has most likely escalated since. It is irrelevant as to whether this is secured or unsecured debt. Acid test is the ability to service that debt upon which Rovers are totally reliant upon the Raos as the club's auditors outline in their comments under 'going concern'.

[Mercer]

That's the point though, you have been inferring for years that they don't have the resources or the willpower to repay the debt when all the actual evidence, albeit limited, keeps showing the opposite. Surely the fact that the debt keeps rising to fund the ongoing losses shows that their credit is good, at least for the forseeable future?

Part of this has been achieved through issued share capital in VLL (£85million @ March 2014) who in turn has 'loaned' the money to its subsidiary company (Rovers).

If the Raos have borrowed the money from BOI in order to issue further share capital, which is very likely given the security on Indian land assets, it would be quite staggering.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Part of this has been achieved through issued share capital in VLL (£85million @ March 2014) who in turn has 'loaned' the money to its subsidiary company (Rovers).

If the Raos have borrowed the money from BOI in order to issue further share capital, which is very likely given the security on Indian land assets, it would be quite staggering.

Indeed, but the fact it has happened also tells us something about their resources and willpower being much greater than previously thought. We are well past the point where any Glasgow gangsters or Ali Syed could have funded things.

[Athlete]

Indeed, but the fact it has happened also tells us something about their resources and willpower being much greater than previously thought. We are well past the point where any Glasgow gangsters or Ali Syed could have funded things.

Unfortunately we know nothing about their will power as for resources it's debatable I have done many searches on them and answers always differ massively from very wealthy to little profit turn over.. I bet only the Rao's could actually answer that

[OJRovers]

Indeed, but the fact it has happened also tells us something about their resources and willpower being much greater than previously thought. We are well past the point where any Glasgow gangsters or Ali Syed could have funded things.

That is why mercerman has put "if" they lose interest we are screwed.

Forget the debt repayment, the amount we're losing every week we'd be bankrupt in a month or two if Venkys stopped putting cash in, it's as simple as that.