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9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will they be grant a work permit? Depending on the a number of different factors 

We left the EU now. 

What was the point in the scouting network then? The decision to leave the EU was hardly unexpected. One at the time that played a huge part for some illogical reason in you thinking Mowbray had to stay to be able to use it.

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Honestly I'm at a point where I just can't get excited about new signings as long as Mowbray is in charge. Even if the signee appears impressive I already know his impact will be neutered by Mowbray's

Hi all. Would like to thank anyone and everyone who has given my work a read over the last few days. As you can probably tell it took a very long time to do and a lot of late nights around my full tim

Fast forwards 12 months.... 'We lost the quality of Holtby and the goals of Armstrong last summer along with the regular right back and the experience of Johnson.  It's a sad day for the club but

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks Ewood Ace for the response. 

I agree with us looking towards the lower leagues for good quality talent that we can develop for the future of our club. 

I mention Luke Jephcott before, have you seen much of him? 

I saw Jephcott play twice last season for Truro and to be honest he didn't stand out one bit. But his record since going back to Plymouth firstly in League 2 and now in League 1 is very impressive.

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16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Here is a scouting report on Yates. 

 

Not sure they're presenting those stats right. 6% dribble success rate? That's absolutely abysmal, or they didn't mean to put percent and mean 6 successful dribbles per game.

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6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

What was the point in the scouting network then? The decision to leave the EU was hardly unexpected. 

Nothing wrong with Scouting players from Europe but they have to meet certain requirements in order to gain work permit. I dont know the full requirements but Rovers chat did a video about it recently. Its on my watch list to listen to over the weekend. 

 

6 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

I saw Jephcott play twice last season for Truro and to be honest he didn't stand out one bit. But his record since going back to Plymouth firstly in League 2 and now in League 1 is very impressive.

Thanks for the reply Ewood. 

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With the scope for players being widened in certain areas (tightened in others), I'd like to see Rovers push the boundaries and take advantage of the scouting network we've been hearing a lot about. 

Whilst the French & German 2nd Divisions become incredibly hard to purchase players from, other leagues such as in South America become vastly more accessible. The new work permit rules post-Brexit can appear difficult but are fairly simple to follow if you have the chart to map it out for each prospective player.

In terms of EFL recruitment, Jerry Yates & Luke Jephcott are two examples of players who are scoring some goals but ultimately don't strike me as the right kind of players for the Championship. If we're looking for a direct replacement for Adam Armstrong I think we're naive, we aren't going to find the money needed for a striker like that, and having looked into it, I don' think there's a plausible replacement for him anyway. He's quite a unique striker and the ultimate aim for me in this window should be to recruit players in positions that will enable the strikers we do have to score more goals.

Sam Gallagher is far from a great player, I'm not his biggest fan, but given the right type & quality of service, he could reach 15 goals next season. We'd have to play a certain way and recruit well in certain areas, but it's certainly more plausible than replacing Armstrong with a striker from Blackpool who's game style is wholly different and output isn't anything like the same quality.

It's significantly cheaper to purchase wide players and goalscoring midfielders than it is to buy prolific strikers. It's a more prudent approach in my eyes to think of ways to get goals out of what we do have by recruiting in the LW and RW areas. For example, Harry Pickering's partner in crime Charlie Kirk has continuously produced impressive Goal & Assist output in League One & Two now. His link-up play with Pickering elevated both of their profiles at the Alex and he's got a release clause around £600,000. Off the top of my head you've also got a player like Ronan Curtis who can play across all three front positions & given his contract expiry date would probably cost something around £1m. 

Yes they're not top names, and no they're not world class footballers, but they're players in a ripe age category, available at cheap COVID-19 affected prices, playing well in the league below who could succeed for Rovers. 

So what do I personally want to see this window? A player or two from wider scope markets like Europe & South America. Value for money deals on young 22-26 year old footballers in League One ready for the step up. A prudent approach, recruiting in cheaper positions on the pitch in an attempt to create goals for the forward we've already spent £5m on.

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16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will they be grant a work permit? Depending on the a number of different factors 

We left the EU now. 

Players need 15 points for a work permit. 

The following leagues all fit into Band 2: (90-100% of minutes played for a team in these leagues gives you 10 points. 80-89% of minutes 9 points, etc...)
Portuguese Primeira Liga
Dutch Eredivisie
Belgian First Division A
Turkish Super Lig
English Championship

Players playing at least one match for a team in a Band 2 league that wins their respective division will receive a further 5 points.

Players who've featured in 30-100% of minutes for a 1st-10th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.

Players who've featured in 40-100% of minutes for an 11th-20th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.
Players who've featured in 60-100% of minutes for an 12th-30th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.
Players who've featured in 70-100% of minutes for an 31th-50th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.


There's further points available for appearances in the Europa League, the Champions League, the new Conference UEFA League, the Copa Libertadores, the Copa Sudamericana and the CAF (African Champions League). 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

So if we take Thomas Kaminski as an example. He'd have got 10 points from his Leagues Band 2 position. He wouldn't have accrued Continental Comp. points as Gent didn't get past the play-off round for the Europa League in 2019/20. He didn't featured in any minutes for the Belgian national side so no points there. They lost the Belgian Cup final so no domestic cup points. Once you add it all up, Kaminski wouldn't have got himself a work permit under new post-Brexit rules.

Antonis Stergiakis would've got 2 of the necessary 15 points coming from a Band 6 League.

Lewis Holtby would've got around 6 or 7 points of the necessary 15 coming from a German 2nd Division team.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

It's not that foreign recruitment becomes impossible, but it changes it drastically. You're now looking at clubs in different areas of the world.

Edited by JoeH
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We're not buying wingers - we play CF's there remember. 

We already have one who is ripping up League 1 and showing he is too good for that league - didn't get a look in here and will leave on a free. But yeah, lets buy some other wingers from the leagues below so TM will player strikers instead.

Edited by JacknOry
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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

With the scope for players being widened in certain areas (tightened in others), I'd like to see Rovers push the boundaries and take advantage of the scouting network we've been hearing a lot about. 

Whilst the French & German 2nd Divisions become incredibly hard to purchase players from, other leagues such as in South America become vastly more accessible. The new work permit rules post-Brexit can appear difficult but are fairly simple to follow if you have the chart to map it out for each prospective player.

In terms of EFL recruitment, Jerry Yates & Luke Jephcott are two examples of players who are scoring some goals but ultimately don't strike me as the right kind of players for the Championship. If we're looking for a direct replacement for Adam Armstrong I think we're naive, we aren't going to find the money needed for a striker like that, and having looked into it, I don' think there's a plausible replacement for him anyway. He's quite a unique striker and the ultimate aim for me in this window should be to recruit players in positions that will enable the strikers we do have to score more goals.

Sam Gallagher is far from a great player, I'm not his biggest fan, but given the right type & quality of service, he could reach 15 goals next season. We'd have to play a certain way and recruit well in certain areas, but it's certainly more plausible than replacing Armstrong with a striker from Blackpool who's game style is wholly different and output isn't anything like the same quality.

It's significantly cheaper to purchase wide players and goalscoring midfielders than it is to buy prolific strikers. It's a more prudent approach in my eyes to think of ways to get goals out of what we do have by recruiting in the LW and RW areas. For example, Harry Pickering's partner in crime Charlie Kirk has continuously produced impressive Goal & Assist output in League One & Two now. His link-up play with Pickering elevated both of their profiles at the Alex and he's got a release clause around £600,000. Off the top of my head you've also got a player like Ronan Curtis who can play across all three front positions & given his contract expiry date would probably cost something around £1m. 

Yes they're not top names, and no they're not world class footballers, but they're players in a ripe age category, available at cheap COVID-19 affected prices, playing well in the league below who could succeed for Rovers. 

So what do I personally want to see this window? A player or two from wider scope markets like Europe & South America. Value for money deals on young 22-26 year old footballers in League One ready for the step up. A prudent approach, recruiting in cheaper positions on the pitch in an attempt to create goals for the forward we've already spent £5m on.

I personally think that Gallagher getting 15 goals next season is very unlikely and I think when Armstrong does go, we definitely need at least one striker, even if we cant get one as good as Armstrong, we cant just have one striker across a full season, especially at best a mediocre one. If Sam Gallagher is your only striker, and this isnt a dig at him because I mean as much if he gets injured etc, you are looking down rather than up. You cant fill the void solely by signing wingers and attacking midfielders.

Players dont have to come from the lower leagues either, if our scouting network is as good as Mowbray seems to want to portray, then surely it can find players within these parameters from abroad. There is also no reason not to look within the Championship, especially if any strikers contracts are close to expiry which I think a few are.

I do think we need to sign a few attacking reinforcments, Armstrong and to a lesser extent Elliott departing will leave a huge gap, and signing one player to make up the number of goals that Armstrong has been getting will be impossible. So a striker and 2 wide men, by all means. Although if the current manager is still in charge, im sure it will be some nonsense like we saw last weekend.

A fair question is that Chapman seems to be doing at least as well as the other League 1 attacking midfielders mentioned, would these players even be an upgrade?

 

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

A fair question is that Chapman seems to be doing at least as well as the other League 1 attacking midfielders mentioned, would these players even be an upgrade?

My response to that would be that Chapman has proven he's not able to replicate that form in this division, with those other players mentioned there's still the chance they could acclimatise well to that step up. I'd be happy enough with Chapman staying if he's improving but that's extremely unlikely given his current situation

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35 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

We already have one who is ripping up League 1 and showing he is too good for that league - didn't get a look in here and will leave on a free. But yeah, lets buy some other wingers from the leagues below so TM will player strikers instead.

I think when young, promising players are available at such cheap prices like Kirk with his release clause, it's worth a punt. Harry Pickering and Kirk had an incredible partnership and they complement each other very well. It would be fairly smart to see if their partnership can succeed at this level.

Chapman hasn't ever succeeded at Championship level, and whilst he is doing well in League One, I don't think you can compare him to the two players I've mentioned, as Curtis and Kirk have never been given that opportunity in this division and could well be superior. 

If it were my decision I'd probably keep Chapman around given how well he's done on loan, but one winger doesn't offer enough options. But it's not my decision obviously and as you say, TM doesn't often play wingers on the wing.

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24 minutes ago, JoeH said:

My response to that would be that Chapman has proven he's not able to replicate that form in this division, with those other players mentioned there's still the chance they could acclimatise well to that step up. I'd be happy enough with Chapman staying if he's improving but that's extremely unlikely given his current situation

He really hasn't been given much of a chance though has he? Let's be fair. Under another manager he is tearing it up in a poor team in the league below. 1 in 2 his goal record there. Admittedly, he is playing more a Dack role but obviously there is a player there that has been under utilised at this level. Few bench appearances here and there ands that's your lot for him. 

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21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I think when young, promising players are available at such cheap prices like Kirk with his release clause, it's worth a punt. Harry Pickering and Kirk had an incredible partnership and they complement each other very well. It would be fairly smart to see if their partnership can succeed at this level.

Chapman hasn't ever succeeded at Championship level, and whilst he is doing well in League One, I don't think you can compare him to the two players I've mentioned, as Curtis and Kirk have never been given that opportunity in this division and could well be superior. 

If it were my decision I'd probably keep Chapman around given how well he's done on loan, but one winger doesn't offer enough options. But it's not my decision obviously and as you say, TM doesn't often play wingers on the wing.

Again, what opportunities has Chapman really had? 

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3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Not sure they're presenting those stats right. 6% dribble success rate? That's absolutely abysmal, or they didn't mean to put percent and mean 6 successful dribbles per game.

How many successful dribbles did Shearer complete in a game ?

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3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How many successful dribbles did Shearer complete in a game ?

No idea but I bet it was a lot more than 6% of the ones he tried!!!

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1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

No idea but I bet it was a lot more than 6% of the ones he tried!!!

I don’t recall him trying many. That wasn’t his game. Running into space past people brought him most of his goals, like lots of strikers.

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1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don’t recall him trying many. That wasn’t his game. Running into space past people brought him most of his goals, like lots of strikers.

I consider running with the ball past someone to be a dribble, but I'm not sure the stat collectors define it that way.

Getting tackled 94% of the time you dribble is terrible though however you slice it. If that's your track record, don't dribble, ever.

Even worse than the 7% of aerial duels he wins supposedly...

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49 minutes ago, JoeH said:

My response to that would be that Chapman has proven he's not able to replicate that form in this division, with those other players mentioned there's still the chance they could acclimatise well to that step up. I'd be happy enough with Chapman staying if he's improving but that's extremely unlikely given his current situation

As others have touched upon, he has proven nothing of the sort, he has never really started at this level.

I am not saying that he should be kept here, or indeed that the others wouldnt be good signings as I am unsure about you but I dont recall seeing them play, my main point was that no number of attacking midfielders would allow us to go into a season with one (average) striker. Such a plan makes no sense.

36 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He's scored 6 this season, and never played in his correct position. I think 15 is very realistic considering he got 12 playing for Coyle.

I dont want to get into too detailed a discussion on Gallagher, but that season is often used as if he was handicapped during it, when in fact the set up was very well suited to him and was by far the best in his career to date. Either way, I would not be comfortable going into a season with only Gallagher as a striker.

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2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I consider running with the ball past someone to be a dribble, but I'm not sure the stat collectors define it that way.

Getting tackled 94% of the time you dribble is terrible though however you slice it. If that's your track record, don't dribble, ever.

Even worse than the 7% of aerial duels he wins supposedly...

I take it you never saw Bryan Douglas . If you had you’d know the difference between dribbling with the ball and just running after it.

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3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Players need 15 points for a work permit. 

The following leagues all fit into Band 2: (90-100% of minutes played for a team in these leagues gives you 10 points. 80-89% of minutes 9 points, etc...)
Portuguese Primeira Liga
Dutch Eredivisie
Belgian First Division A
Turkish Super Lig
English Championship

Players playing at least one match for a team in a Band 2 league that wins their respective division will receive a further 5 points.

Players who've featured in 30-100% of minutes for a 1st-10th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.

Players who've featured in 40-100% of minutes for an 11th-20th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.
Players who've featured in 60-100% of minutes for an 12th-30th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.
Players who've featured in 70-100% of minutes for an 31th-50th ranked FIFA National Side automatically get the 15 points needed.


There's further points available for appearances in the Europa League, the Champions League, the new Conference UEFA League, the Copa Libertadores, the Copa Sudamericana and the CAF (African Champions League). 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

So if we take Thomas Kaminski as an example. He'd have got 10 points from his Leagues Band 2 position. He wouldn't have accrued Continental Comp. points as Gent didn't get past the play-off round for the Europa League in 2019/20. He didn't featured in any minutes for the Belgian national side so no points there. They lost the Belgian Cup final so no domestic cup points. Once you add it all up, Kaminski wouldn't have got himself a work permit under new post-Brexit rules.

Antonis Stergiakis would've got 2 of the necessary 15 points coming from a Band 6 League.

Lewis Holtby would've got around 6 or 7 points of the necessary 15 coming from a German 2nd Division team.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

It's not that foreign recruitment becomes impossible, but it changes it drastically. You're now looking at clubs in different areas of the world.

Very good post. Illustrates how unlikely we are to be able to get good value players from Europe now. Anyone who has enough points is fairly likely to cost Premiership money now. More shite to suit the big boys.

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I confidently forecast Gallagher was a decent signing and would get 10 in his first season back. I've recoiled in horror at most of what i've seen since then.

75% of that is down to the clowns in the dugout imo.

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2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I take it you never saw Bryan Douglas . If you had you’d know the difference between dribbling with the ball and just running after it.

I mean, I didn't see Douglas, but it's not like he is the only man to ever dribble a ball. I know the 'difference', but in terms of compiling stats in particular, there might as well not be. Where do you draw the line? For me, any attempt to beat the man with the ball at your feet is a dribble attempt. And if you're failing 94% of those, please stop trying, forever, for the sake of your teammates, and start passing instead.

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