Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[tomphil]

11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Never forgive sven changing his mind about jansen and taking keown instead.  

And when we were 2-1 down v Brazil in the quarter final it was crying out for a player like Matt.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

It's so sad from a football fans point of view seeing talent like Rhodes having  their career derailed and ability wiped out because as mostly always they chose to chase the bigger money. 

Probably the most natural goalscorer that we've had since Shearer(and Garner before him) 

Looks like Adam Armstrongs career is now also going that way 😞

Rhodes a more natural goalscorer than Bellamy ? Err not really.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

18 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Rhodes and Armstrong are not fit to lace the boots of either Cole or Jansen.

Cole and Jansen did it at the highest level with silverware and caps to show for it - if it hadn't been for Jansen's accident, I think he would have become a Rovers' 'great' with great reserved for the likes of Shearer, Tugay etc.

IMO, Rhodes was a 'flat track bully' found wanting at PL level whilst Armstrong seems to be in the same mould.

Comparisons really are nonsense.

Yes they are. So why are you doing it 🤷‍♂️

 

Trying to have an unbiased rational conversation on here really is a waste of time and energy. 

Folk just stubbornly paint themselves into a corner with their precious opinions 😄

[Armchair supporter supremo]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Rhodes a more natural goalscorer than Bellamy ? Err not really.

Sorry but Bellamys goal scoring stats over his career would beg to differ 🙂 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

Sorry but Bellamys goal scoring stats over his career would beg to differ 🙂 

Probably because he didn’t play enough games at Div 3 level. Really, ability wise there was no comparison. Bellamy beat top level teams on his own.

[tomphil]

Mowbray chose to spend 15 million in the space of about a year  3 seasons ago and has only just got near the top 6.

There's levels to this management game regardless of money and did forest have an academy turn out like ours to pick from ?

Throw in the ability to afford loans like Reed, Tosin, Elliot, THB and the rest plus wages for Johnson. Holtby etc puts a little bit of a different perspective on it. What would Cooper have done with that lot ?

Lets not keep pretending we are paupers.

Edited April 6, 2022 by tomphil

[Armchair supporter supremo]

27 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Probably because he didn’t play enough games at Div 3 level. Really, ability wise there was no comparison. Bellamy beat top level teams on his own.

I was talking very specifically about natural finishing ability, not any players all around ability 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Gav]

8 hours ago, tomphil said:

Mowbray chose to spend 15 million in the space of about a year  3 seasons ago and has only just got near the top 6.

There's levels to this management game regardless of money and did forest have an academy turn out like ours to pick from ?

Throw in the ability to afford loans like Reed, Tosin, Elliot, THB and the rest plus wages for Johnson. Holtby etc puts a little bit of a different perspective on it. What would Cooper have done with that lot ?

Lets not keep pretending we are paupers.

I think this comment actually highlights the point about football fans knowing nothing about football, me included. Brereton was obviously bought as an investment for the future, I didn't realise that at the time, people within the game did, new his ability and understood with good coaching where he'd end up, he's probably a £20m+ striker in todays market, job done.

Armstrong was bought as a striker for the here and now, £2.5m, he was managed and coached into a £20m striker, he certainly wasn't that when he arrived, sold, job done.

Gallagher hasn't reached those heights, he never plays in his preferred position and is clearly suffering from a lack of confidence, also seen in Brereton in his first few seasons. Gallagher runs his socks off and deserves better for his endeavour and we may well see it when Brereton leaves this summer, if he does. 

Kaminski, Dolan, Rothwell, Travis, Lenihan, Nyambe, Pickering all improving week on week under this manager and his coaching team, really does fly in the face of some of the 'experts' on here who say the managerial team/coaching staff are weak doesn't it? 

Then we get on to Cooper who failed at Swansea awash with premiership cash and took over a Forest side that had just spend £20+ on players in 18 months, not over 5 seasons, in 18 months, he should get promoted with that lot, a luxury we could only dream of, we've spent £1.99 this season and are still in the hunt.

Last season it was Valerien Ismael, who? A few weeks ago it was Mark Warburton and QPR, a few weeks before that it was Robins and Coventry, the list goes on, all performing worse than Mowbray might I add.

Next season we could be comparing Mowbray to Phil Brown, you heard it here first, be afraid, be very afraid........😉

 

[47er]

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

I think this comment actually highlights the point about football fans knowing nothing about football, me included. Brereton was obviously bought as an investment for the future, I didn't realise that at the time, people within the game did, new his ability and understood with good coaching where he'd end up, he's probably a £20m+ striker in todays market, job done.

Armstrong was bought as a striker for the here and now, £2.5m, he was managed and coached into a £20m striker, he certainly wasn't that when he arrived, sold, job done.

Gallagher hasn't reached those heights, he never plays in his preferred position and is clearly suffering from a lack of confidence, also seen in Brereton in his first few seasons. Gallagher runs his socks off and deserves better for his endeavour and we may well see it when Brereton leaves this summer, if he does. 

Kaminski, Dolan, Rothwell, Travis, Lenihan, Nyambe, Pickering all improving week on week under this manager and his coaching team, really does fly in the face of some of the 'experts' on here who say the managerial team/coaching staff are weak doesn't it? 

Then we get on to Cooper who failed at Swansea awash with premiership cash and took over a Forest side that had just spend £20+ on players in 18 months, not over 5 seasons, in 18 months, he should get promoted with that lot, a luxury we could only dream of, we've spent £1.99 this season and are still in the hunt.

Last season it was Valerien Ismael, who? A few weeks ago it was Mark Warburton and QPR, a few weeks before that it was Robins and Coventry, the list goes on, all performing worse than Mowbray might I add.

Next season we could be comparing Mowbray to Phil Brown, you heard it here first, be afraid, be very afraid........😉

 

You're gilding the lilly a fair bit. If Mowbray has coached all these players into stars, why are we looking at finishing outside the 6? Why have we been in relegation form since Christmas?

I accept that we have a pretty decent squad now and Mowbray deserves credit for that, even though there's some loans in there, but you'll never convince me he can get the best out of them. Far from it in reality.

[Gav]

10 minutes ago, 47er said:

You're gilding the lilly a fair bit. If Mowbray has coached all these players into stars, why are we looking at finishing outside the 6? Why have we been in relegation form since Christmas?

I accept that we have a pretty decent squad now and Mowbray deserves credit for that, even though there's some loans in there, but you'll never convince me he can get the best out of them. Far from it in reality.

Injuries, lack of strength in depth, lack of funding, its that simple for me 47er.

[Mattyblue]

You are being very disingenuous here, Gav. 

Copper oversaw vast cutbacks at Swansea and wasn’t sacked, he just couldn’t be arsed with even more player sales from under him, fair enough. They were competitive throughout.

Forest were bottom, they’ve charged to a chance of automatic promotion in half a season. 

The bloke is obviously a good manager and will follow the trajectory of Potter at Brighton.

[Blue blood]

24 minutes ago, Gav said:

I think this comment actually highlights the point about football fans knowing nothing about football, me included. Brereton was obviously bought as an investment for the future, I didn't realise that at the time, people within the game did, new his ability and understood with good coaching where he'd end up, he's probably a £20m+ striker in todays market, job done.

Armstrong was bought as a striker for the here and now, £2.5m, he was managed and coached into a £20m striker, he certainly wasn't that when he arrived, sold, job done.

Gallagher hasn't reached those heights, he never plays in his preferred position and is clearly suffering from a lack of confidence, also seen in Brereton in his first few seasons. Gallagher runs his socks off and deserves better for his endeavour and we may well see it when Brereton leaves this summer, if he does. 

Kaminski, Dolan, Rothwell, Travis, Lenihan, Nyambe, Pickering all improving week on week under this manager and his coaching team, really does fly in the face of some of the 'experts' on here who say the managerial team/coaching staff are weak doesn't it? 

Then we get on to Cooper who failed at Swansea awash with premiership cash and took over a Forest side that had just spend £20+ on players in 18 months, not over 5 seasons, in 18 months, he should get promoted with that lot, a luxury we could only dream of, we've spent £1.99 this season and are still in the hunt.

Last season it was Valerien Ismael, who? A few weeks ago it was Mark Warburton and QPR, a few weeks before that it was Robins and Coventry, the list goes on, all performing worse than Mowbray might I add.

Next season we could be comparing Mowbray to Phil Brown, you heard it here first, be afraid, be very afraid........😉

 

Gav that's a very one sided view on things! Firstly Bereton. As I said before I can't think of another player anywhere who takes up such a huge amount of the budget that is allowed to take over 3 seasons to become good. Could Rovers afford that? Clearly not. Not could, I suspect, most other clubs have such a huge percentage of their transfer budget do nothing for 3 years. That's not job done whatsoever. That's opportunities lost - although it's far from a washout given his goals have saved us this season. But a roaring success? Not at all. 

Armstrong agree - fantastic bit of business. 

Gally - fans know nothing about football? Everyone knows Gally is wasted out wide. So what does that suggest about TM if he keeps playing him there? That doesn't suggest he's the expert and we aren't. It suggests TM is a Muppet for doing so.  Again, having such a big chunk of our transfer budget not really performing to the top level again suggests perhaps TM isn't the football genius he makes out. 

Yes plenty of players have improved under TM. That 3 you mentioned are leaving for free is criminal. Whilst most of this is on the world's most incompetent owners, the manager mist hold some of the blame given he must have some influence on things (e.g. the extension of the contracts over lockdown). Again continuing with the this shows he is an expert I could raise you the likes of Walton, Whittingham, Ayala, the players stupidly out of position, the players limited out of position, the Raya situation, the mid season collapses. He's far, far from an expert. 

For what it's worth I think he is an ok manager - which is much better than the usual standard here - who makes stupid, idiotic mistakes.and is his own worst enemy. I also think he is a dislikeable toad due to his comments. 

As for Forrest they have been a basket case club. As we when we came down show, spending doesn't always mean it's been spent well. They have had a huge turnover of players, tons of managers, no parachute payments, a meddling owner and general chaos. To get them firing like he has in such circumstances is very impressive. 

On Ishmael didn't he get Barnsley into the playoffs? That's more than TM managed with less resources and time. Also WBA were in the playoffs when he left. Is he a great manager? I'm not sure but I would have him over TM. 

As for the rest you mention, taking a snapshot at one moment is interesting - have Coventry and QPR had the time or investment TM has had? Have either been on the death spirals he has been at. I'll finish with this had TM had a run like he has had with us at either club he would have been sacked. That's how football works apart from at Ewood.

[Gav]

28 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Gav that's a very one sided view on things!

I thought it would make a change Bb.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Injuries, lack of strength in depth, lack of funding, its that simple for me 47er.

Not that simple at all Gav!

 

34 minutes ago, Gav said:

I thought it would make a change Bb.

We don't need balance on here Gav, just genuinely felt opinions.

[roverandout]

Wow gav. Mowbray is a genius he saw Brereton becoming a goal scorer 3 years into the future.  All these years we were castigating Mowbray for wasting 7 million when all along he had a plan. How dumb of us

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I think this comment actually highlights the point about football fans knowing nothing about football, me included. Brereton was obviously bought as an investment for the future, I didn't realise that at the time, people within the game did, new his ability and understood with good coaching where he'd end up, he's probably a £20m+ striker in todays market, job done.

Armstrong was bought as a striker for the here and now, £2.5m, he was managed and coached into a £20m striker, he certainly wasn't that when he arrived, sold, job done.

Gallagher hasn't reached those heights, he never plays in his preferred position and is clearly suffering from a lack of confidence, also seen in Brereton in his first few seasons. Gallagher runs his socks off and deserves better for his endeavour and we may well see it when Brereton leaves this summer, if he does. 

Kaminski, Dolan, Rothwell, Travis, Lenihan, Nyambe, Pickering all improving week on week under this manager and his coaching team, really does fly in the face of some of the 'experts' on here who say the managerial team/coaching staff are weak doesn't it? 

Then we get on to Cooper who failed at Swansea awash with premiership cash and took over a Forest side that had just spend £20+ on players in 18 months, not over 5 seasons, in 18 months, he should get promoted with that lot, a luxury we could only dream of, we've spent £1.99 this season and are still in the hunt.

Last season it was Valerien Ismael, who? A few weeks ago it was Mark Warburton and QPR, a few weeks before that it was Robins and Coventry, the list goes on, all performing worse than Mowbray might I add.

Next season we could be comparing Mowbray to Phil Brown, you heard it here first, be afraid, be very afraid........😉

 

Point being you constantly try and make out like Mowbray has been badly done to compared to other managers awash with cash. True in regards to parachute clubs but not so true in regards to a lot of the rest of this division.

Owners aside the set up at this club and the backing hes had should see us always competing to be amongst the best of the rest. Not been the case until this season and that has been led by a 7 million pound striker and the facts are he was allowed to spend 15 million on 3 strikers.

Not debating the merits of his judgement or what they may or may not be worth now because in terms of two of them he was proven correct.  He still had the money to sign them though and i take issue with your assumptions hes only operated with a bag of washers and a bit of loose change.

Many managers would give their right arm for the set up here they'd walk over hot coals for this job. We know the idiots wouldn't employ them but i'm not for one min standing by listening to the 'hard done by' nonsense in regards to Mowbray. This has been a dream job for him and his pals.

As for the experts in the stands well there's a lot of real football experts on the dole.

Edited April 7, 2022 by tomphil

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I think this comment actually highlights the point about football fans knowing nothing about football, me included. Brereton was obviously bought as an investment for the future, I didn't realise that at the time, people within the game did, new his ability and understood with good coaching where he'd end up, he's probably a £20m+ striker in todays market, job done.

Armstrong was bought as a striker for the here and now, £2.5m, he was managed and coached into a £20m striker, he certainly wasn't that when he arrived, sold, job done.

Gallagher hasn't reached those heights, he never plays in his preferred position and is clearly suffering from a lack of confidence, also seen in Brereton in his first few seasons. Gallagher runs his socks off and deserves better for his endeavour and we may well see it when Brereton leaves this summer, if he does. 

Kaminski, Dolan, Rothwell, Travis, Lenihan, Nyambe, Pickering all improving week on week under this manager and his coaching team, really does fly in the face of some of the 'experts' on here who say the managerial team/coaching staff are weak doesn't it? 

Then we get on to Cooper who failed at Swansea awash with premiership cash and took over a Forest side that had just spend £20+ on players in 18 months, not over 5 seasons, in 18 months, he should get promoted with that lot, a luxury we could only dream of, we've spent £1.99 this season and are still in the hunt.

Last season it was Valerien Ismael, who? A few weeks ago it was Mark Warburton and QPR, a few weeks before that it was Robins and Coventry, the list goes on, all performing worse than Mowbray might I add.

Next season we could be comparing Mowbray to Phil Brown, you heard it here first, be afraid, be very afraid........😉

 

Come off it.

Cooper didnt fail at Swansea. Two seasons in charge, twice got into the play-offs and reached the final last year. Notable that super Graham Potter who gets linked with all the big jobs going didn't achieve that in his time there and only managed 10th.

They weren't awash with PL cash either - they've been in cutback mode for years which was the reason he walked away knowing that the budget was being decimated and they wouldn't be able to compete this season.

Forest for all their heavy spending were a dysfunctional mess. I agree that with their squad and spending they should be in contention but given where they were when he took over earlier this season it has been a remarkable turnaround, and I think we should be embarrassed to have allowed the lead we had over them to be wiped out.

It is interesting that in the January window, when they were little more than play-off hopefuls and we were sat 2nd, that our business involved inexplicably paying fees out for Hedges and Markandy, who between them have contributed naf all (admittedly not entirely their fault) and we could have had both on frees in the summer, whilst Forest immediately went out and got the loan deal for Keinan Davies who has been an outstanding addition and made an immediate impact.

I think their contributions so far to his wages will be similar or less than we shelled out or committed to shell out in fees for the above.

Valerien Ismael is a good manager as his career has shown and he's now managing Turkish giants Besiktas. Imagine old Tone getting approached or appointed by such a club. WBA are a dysfucntional mess that ruin managers - we only have to see Bruce's struggles since he took over yet will sort them out given time.

Robins is outperforming Mowbray. Even if Coventry finish below us they are in a similar position spending a fraction of the cash and losses and he's hauled them from League Two in less time than Mowbray has had here.

 

[USABlue]

On 22/03/2022 at 19:34, Upside Down said:

6. He has brought some much needed stability but when it comes to the big games and getting results when it really matters then he hasn't got the bottle.

He's got a long proven track record of doing really well up to Christmas then blowing it in the new year. Ultimately that is not good enough. 

He doesn't deserve any ill will but he has not earned a place amongst the managerial legends at this club despite his long tenure. 

Ultimately he will be somewhat anonymous in the annals of Rovers history, just one more in a long line of managerial mediocrity that has come to be the hallmark of the Venkys reign. 

Thing is at what point does stability become considered stagnation.

I am a 5 out of 10.  Loses point from me for his poor poor handling of players.  Focusing in sertain individuals for dropping.  For doggedly oersiting game after game with his stupid positioning ideas that clearly don't work.  All the world see it except ToMo and Venkies.

His inability to arrest a slide and for this last transfer window. (Scandalous that)  We are in the top six, maybe in with a shout of Auto's if he signs a decent striker. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The fact that none of the 5 players he signed to help us gain promotion in January has contributed in any meaningful way tells me all I need to know. That takes some doing when you think about it. Thanks for coming Tony but off you pop. You can go now for me.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, 47er said:

You're gilding the lilly a fair bit. If Mowbray has coached all these players into stars, why are we looking at finishing outside the 6? Why have we been in relegation form since Christmas?

I accept that we have a pretty decent squad now and Mowbray deserves credit for that, even though there's some loans in there, but you'll never convince me he can get the best out of them. Far from it in reality.

It's nothing to do with Tony though, after all he's only the manager he isn't out on the field !!!

Tactics, formations, subs ?     No that's never played any part because he tells the lads what to do every week.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's nothing to do with Tony though, after all he's only the manager he isn't out on the field !!!

Tactics, formations, subs ?     No that's never played any part because he tells the lads what to do every week.

He might tell them but it’s pretty obvious they’re no longer listening.

[AllRoverAsia]

56 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Thing is at what point does stability become considered stagnation.

I am a 5 out of 10.  Loses point from me for his poor poor handling of players.  Focusing in sertain individuals for dropping.  For doggedly oersiting game after game with his stupid positioning ideas that clearly don't work.  All the world see it except ToMo and Venkies.

His inability to arrest a slide and for this last transfer window. (Scandalous that)  We are in the top six, maybe in with a shout of Auto's if he signs a decent striker. 

We don't play with a striker so turned down the striker loan offers from PL clubs.

I did not make that up.🙄

[tomphil]

Then bemoan the fact the squad, nah entire club doesn't have one target man or one central striker in it aside from a kid who's not really been near the first team.

Then look at the first half v Derby where Khadra and Dolan i think it was basically played as wingers whilst Johnson tried to be a false 9.

Nothing in the box to aim for, virtually zero goal threat and gave the opposition freedom to play it out from the back.  I know we ended up winning and it's in the past but i'll never get over what the hell that was all about. This is with Gallagher, Giles and Dack on the bench first half.

Fast forwards a few weeks and we see BB, Dack and Dolan left of the bench first half and Giles right, Gallagher left and Buckley trying to be a false 9.  Almost a similar wretched repeat of the Derby first half and still no forwards in the box, crazy oddball stubborn stuff.

Edited April 7, 2022 by tomphil

[JHRover]

Last 3 games - laughable team selection v Derby, arguably the most ridiculous ever witnessed, worst performance in a long time and deservedly losing at half time to crisis club Derby. Players take control at half time, turn the game around and win for the first time in ages.

Manager spends the second half and post match interview behaving like a petulant child, presumably because someone decided to deliver some home truths rather than the St Tony knows best approach he usually gets from his colleagues and the media.

Next game go to Reading, weary performance and get beat against a side in dire form and fighting to survive. Fail to score again.

Next game Coventry and once again select a team and system that is all over the place, very lucky to reach half time only 1-0 down, obvious changes work and then in the end still can't see the game out.

So that's twice in three games that he's selected a team and system that is not up to the job in hand and has been forced to ring the changes at half time to salvage the game.

[TimmyJimmy]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/20050259.brilliant-bunch---tony-mowbrays-backing-blackburn-rovers-squad/

Sounds like the kind of language of one whose leaving? I really think he could be on his way.