v WBA (a) - 15/02/23

[RoversTilliDie]

7 minutes ago, rigger said:

I thought it was, Doubting Thomas. 

Did'nt Thomas set up Rovers goal against Watford and was the only bright spark against Wigan from what I saw.

[47er]

I would definitely include Dolan. 

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Flip of a coin between him and Hedges. I don't think he has been great in his first 2 games and his set pieces have been surprisingly poor. Hopefully more to come but I would be tempted to put Hedges back in.

Thomas was our best player against Wigan and he was decent enough including his work in the build up for the Rovers goal, but you are happy enough to want to start a player in BBD who is badly out of form and looks shattered. Maybe give him a rest? 

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

No Vale in your squad?

You seen my post on my team so I don't understand why you are asking that question. 

5 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

How many times have we gone into games confident of winning and fallen flat on our face. Rovers are far to inconsistent for me to predict a result. With Thomas a decent winger from what iv'e seen, I would play Gallagher or Diaz alongside Dack.

Gallagher and BBD out of form and I wouldn't start either, 

3 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Did'nt Thomas set up Rovers goal against Watford and was the only bright spark against Wigan from what I saw.

exactly. 

[Hasta]

8 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Did'nt Thomas set up Rovers goal against Watford and was the only bright spark against Wigan from what I saw.

Well, Thomas played his part in setting it up along with Brereton, Pickering, Dolan and chiefly JRC. But I would hardly say he 'set it up'.

Would definitely start for me though.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Hasta

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Did'nt Thomas set up Rovers goal against Watford and was the only bright spark against Wigan from what I saw.

And some fell on stoney ground.

[Northcote blues]

Pears

JRC Carter Hyam Pickering

Travis Buckley

Thomas Dack Diaz

Dolan

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, goozburger said:

Thomas was our only attacking threat against Wigan and was involved in the build up to our goal against Watford. No chance I would consider benching him before a Brereton Diaz who has been out of sorts for weeks and even months.

I was quite surprised to see such a positive reaction following the Wigan game regarding Thomas, he didn't create any decent chances (the only one we had was Brereton via a Dack pass) nor offer a goal threat and his set pieces were poor.

I did rate Thomas at Huddersfield and I wouldn't be totally against him starting over Hedges but I did not see the same performance that many did against Wigan, albeit it was a difficult game to debut in within a "Tomasson back 6" with Vale clogging up space in front of him with terrible movement.

The thing that seperates Brereton from everyone else aside from Dack is that he can score goals. For me rather than it being an issue of focus/effort, the main reason for Brereton's poor form is the tactics from the manager, Brereton is often having to go far too deep into a left back position and it totally nullifies the attacking threat he does carry. It makes more sense to me to re-think the attacking tactics which haven't been working for a while, well to be honest we have not scored many all season, even less than Rotherham. We have been putting players up front (notably Vale but Dolan would not hit double figures in a full season up front) who aren't a threat whilst having our main striker having to do all of the donkey work and never getting to attack.

[booth]

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I was quite surprised to see such a positive reaction following the Wigan game regarding Thomas, he didn't create any decent chances (the only one we had was Brereton via a Dack pass) nor offer a goal threat and his set pieces were poor.

I did rate Thomas at Huddersfield and I wouldn't be totally against him starting over Hedges but I did not see the same performance that many did against Wigan, albeit it was a difficult game to debut in within a "Tomasson back 6" with Vale clogging up space in front of him with terrible movement.

So you'd drop him because of his Wigan performance? We've had a game since then and when he went off, the team noticeably suffered.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, booth said:

So you'd drop him because of his Wigan performance? We've had a game since then and when he went off, the team noticeably suffered.

No I didn't think he was great at Watford, we were generally dropping off as we tend to do, Thomas wasn't getting us up the pitch. Like I said, I don't overly mind whether its him or Hedges, both useful players, the key to being an attacking threat is far bigger than that. If we continue to play as we have been, either player will be a secondary full back.

[booth]

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No I didn't think he was great at Watford, we were generally dropping off as we tend to do, Thomas wasn't getting us up the pitch. Like I said, I don't overly mind whether its him or Hedges, both useful players, the key to being an attacking threat is far bigger than that. If we continue to play as we have been, either player will be a secondary full back.

Such an odd take, he was one of the better players on the pitch against one of the better Championship sides, away.

Brereton and Buckley were passengers in comparison.

[jim mk2]

Tickets nabbed. If you fancy a flutter on a Rovers defeat I haven’t seen us win a point away from home this season 

[goozburger]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The thing that seperates Brereton from everyone else aside from Dack is that he can score goals.

It's over three months since Brereton Diaz hit the back of the net.

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, booth said:

Such an odd take, he was one of the better players on the pitch against one of the better Championship sides, away.

Brereton and Buckley were passengers in comparison.

Our better players tended to be those in defensive positions, Carter and Travis stood out and Wharton, Pickering and Rankin Costello all did well. Thomas wasn't one of the better players for me, nor obviously was Brereton who spend most of the game back at left back. Buckley only played half an hour but did more than Morton who may aswell have not played.

7 minutes ago, goozburger said:

It's over three months since Brereton Diaz hit the back of the net.

My point on Brereton is that he has been poor, I am not denying that, but the aim should be for the manager to look at getting him back into form by playing him near the opposition goal.

The whole attacking side is dysfunctional and the tactics are a huge reason behind this. We have scored 8 goals in 9 games as a team since the World Cup and have scored less than many bottom half teams including Rotherham across the season, we have struggled to create chances all season.

Brereton is on 9 league goals, Dack is on 4 having missed much of the season and beyond that, our other attacking players are on 0-3. The key to scoring again is probably getting Brereton back in form, and he won't do that in his own half in such negative tactics.

[roversfan99]

Kaminski out for 4-6 weeks, gigantic blow.

Hyam and Brittain in the squad tomorrow. Hyam in for Wharton IMO.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I was quite surprised to see such a positive reaction following the Wigan game regarding Thomas, he didn't create any decent chances (the only one we had was Brereton via a Dack pass) nor offer a goal threat and his set pieces were poor

He was our main threat all night who took on Wigan defenders. When he went off we didn't look a threat. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The thing that seperates Brereton from everyone else aside from Dack is that he can score goals. For me rather than it being an issue of focus/effort, the main reason for Brereton's poor form is the tactics from the manager, Brereton is often having to go far too deep into a left back position and it totally nullifies the attacking threat he does carry. It makes more sense to me to re-think the attacking tactics which haven't been working for a while,

BBD hasn't scored any goals for 3 months and his confidence has gone. Plus what has gone on in the past month maybe give him a rest from starting games and come off the bench for a game or two. 

BBD is having to cover in the left back positions cos he is doing his defensively duties and rightly so. Against Wigan, they pushed their wing backs high and with their playing front meaning that our wide players need to track them back instead of playing them on to full backs cos of how the front 3 played. Defensively the tactics have been right from JDT. 

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point on Brereton is that he has been poor, I am not denying that, but the aim should be for the manager to look at getting him back into form by playing him near the opposition goal.

But his best form for us comes from the left side of the attack so would moving him to number 9 role make any different to him and his form? 

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The whole attacking side is dysfunctional and the tactics are a huge reason behind this.

We lack pace in team which the Thomas gives us plus the lack of quality striker with pace is another reason cos we can't stretch the play. 

[chaddyrovers]

expect Brittain and Hyam will be on the bench 

[Exiled_Rover]

Assuming Brittain and Hyam aren't fully fit I'd go with the same team as the Watford game, with Hedges coming in for Brereton-Diaz.

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He was our main threat all night who took on Wigan defenders. When he went off we didn't look a threat. 

BBD hasn't scored any goals for 3 months and his confidence has gone. Plus what has gone on in the past month maybe give him a rest from starting games and come off the bench for a game or two. 

BBD is having to cover in the left back positions cos he is doing his defensively duties and rightly so. Against Wigan, they pushed their wing backs high and with their playing front meaning that our wide players need to track them back instead of playing them on to full backs cos of how the front 3 played. Defensively the tactics have been right from JDT. 

But his best form for us comes from the left side of the attack so would moving him to number 9 role make any different to him and his form? 

We lack pace in team which the Thomas gives us plus the lack of quality striker with pace is another reason cos we can't stretch the play. 

He didn't create any chances though, the only one we had was Dack playing it through to Brereton. He didn't really do much if anything when it came to creating chances. We didn't look a threat at all throughout aside from that one chance.

The tactics need seriously looking at going forward. I don't think that it is constructive to have essentially a back 6 for so much of games, but even so, I have not said that wide men have no defensive responsibilities, its just in our tactics at the moment, everything they do is defensive and they don't attack.

Brereton is a quality striker with pace. Mowbray got more out of him compared to Tomasson because he played him higher up, either in a 433 or along with Khadra as one of our main 2 attackers with Buckley around them. Playing him as a left winger in our defensive 4231 will not allow him to get forward as much, but Dack needs to play as a number 10. So some thought has to be put into changing things up.

There are 2 suggestions, one is to have Brereton playing as a central striker, he has had very little chance to do that but he is quick, he runs in behind, he can finish and he holds it up better than anyone else in the squad, so worth a shot.  Alternatively, we could play a 3412 with Dack behind Brereton and another forward, maybe Dolan. I'd go for the former as the latter would mean only one of Thomas, Brittain and Rankin Costello could play.

[RoversTilliDie]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

I would definitely include Dolan. 

He should be a regular when he's on form, he's got pace, but could do with getting on the scoresheet more often.

[Guest]

3 games unbeaten but only 3 points to show for it instead of the 6 we should have been getting.

Think this is a step too far against a West Brom side licking their wounds after a no show at big club.

2-0 West Brom for me.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He didn't create any chances though, the only one we had was Dack playing it through to Brereton. He didn't really do much if anything when it came to creating chances. We didn't look a threat at all throughout aside from that one chance.

Most people who watched the game or watched on TV will say he was our biggest attacking threat in that game. You don't for some reason. 

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The tactics need seriously looking at going forward. I don't think that it is constructive to have essentially a back 6 for so much of games, but even so, I have not said that wide men have no defensive responsibilities, its just in our tactics at the moment, everything they do is defensive and they don't attack.

You keep overlooked the game situation and BBD had a defensive job to do. If JDT hasn't done what he did we would have been defensive disadvantaged. 

Thomas was attacking from the right tho in the 2 games so where was BBD? 

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Brereton is a quality striker with pace. Mowbray got more out of him compared to Tomasson because he played him higher up, either in a 433 or along with Khadra as one of our main 2 attackers with Buckley around them. Playing him as a left winger in our defensive 4231 will not allow him to get forward as much, but Dack needs to play as a number 10. So some thought has to be put into changing things up.

Is BBD a striker tho when all of goals and form come from in playing left in 4-2-3-1 or as wide forward in 3-4-3? When has he played a number 9 and scored goals from there? 

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are 2 suggestions, one is to have Brereton playing as a central striker, he has had very little chance to do that but he is quick, he runs in behind, he can finish and he holds it up better than anyone else in the squad, so worth a shot.  Alternatively, we could play a 3412 with Dack behind Brereton and another forward, maybe Dolan. I'd go for the former as the latter would mean only one of Thomas, Brittain and Rankin Costello could play.

Our squad is suited playing 4-2-3-1 formation not 3-4-1-2. Our best results have come with this formation. 

So just be clear you would drop BBD for a couple of games for him(bench him( to re-energise and clear his head before bring him back in the starting 11? 

[RoversTilliDie]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I was quite surprised to see such a positive reaction following the Wigan game regarding Thomas, he didn't create any decent chances (the only one we had was Brereton via a Dack pass) nor offer a goal threat and his set pieces were poor.

I did rate Thomas at Huddersfield and I wouldn't be totally against him starting over Hedges but I did not see the same performance that many did against Wigan, albeit it was a difficult game to debut in within a "Tomasson back 6" with Vale clogging up space in front of him with terrible movement.

The thing that seperates Brereton from everyone else aside from Dack is that he can score goals. For me rather than it being an issue of focus/effort, the main reason for Brereton's poor form is the tactics from the manager, Brereton is often having to go far too deep into a left back position and it totally nullifies the attacking threat he does carry. It makes more sense to me to re-think the attacking tactics which haven't been working for a while, well to be honest we have not scored many all season, even less than Rotherham. We have been putting players up front (notably Vale but Dolan would not hit double figures in a full season up front) who aren't a threat whilst having our main striker having to do all of the donkey work and never getting to attack.

Same with Buckley, look at last season, goal of the season against Birmingham and goal of the month against Preston. He's a powerful shot on him that's going to waste.

[RoversTilliDie]

1 minute ago, Mellor Rover said:

3 games unbeaten but only 3 points to show for it instead of the 6 we should have been getting.

Think this is a step too far against a West Brom side licking their wounds after a no show at big club.

2-0 West Brom for me.

We had'nt drawn for about 25 matches then we get 3 in a row.

[RoversTilliDie]

1 hour ago, goozburger said:

It's over three months since Brereton Diaz hit the back of the net.

3 months since he scored and he still has'nt sat on the bench, other players are dropped for poor form. At the moment he's a hinderance not an asset.

[Wheelton Blue]

Brereton needs dropping, but I very much doubt that Hedges - if he's selected to replace him - will make much difference to our attack.

Hedges is a bit of a nothing player to me. Useful at times and fairly tidy, but for an attacking player he doesn't contribute anywhere near enough goals nor assists.