Adam Wharton

[bluebruce]

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Sorry, They were 3 points to play for, players given a chance to shine and against a tactic used by Albania that many teams will played against us. Bellingham was awful, Eze not good enough, Burn made mistakes, etc

Do you not think that those players may have been awful partly because there wasn't really anything on the line? 3 points only matters when they can affect positions, as we have seen at the end of many league seasons.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Do you not think that those players may have been awful partly because there wasn't really anything on the line? 3 points only matters when they can affect positions, as we have seen at the end of many league seasons.

Nothing on line. 

Dont agree. Given that in my opinion we have only 3 spots in the starting 11 open and 2 of them are the positions that Bellingham and Eze played yesterday. Burn is a steady player but a squad player at best

[roversfan99]

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Sorry, They were 3 points to play for, players given a chance to shine and against a tactic used by Albania that many teams will played against us. Bellingham was awful, Eze not good enough, Burn made mistakes, etc

Cos Anderson was more effective than Wharton was as I said and I also said that I feel Wharton would be better playing higher up the pitch. I have said and others have said similar that Anderson is actually more suited to playing that 6 role(defensive midfielder) cos how Tuchel wants that role played but also how we play overall 

isn't he first in forward passes, or touches or line breaking passes or successful dribbles or progressive carries or Possession won then? I must have none seen that on Sky Sports PL channel before the Sunday games started. 

Ive never denied that according to wherever Sky Sports get these specific metrics from, that he is top of them.

I am saying that they doesnt prove objectively that hes the best midfielder in the league.

You dont seem to be able to distinguish the difference between the 2.

[RevidgeBlue]

Jackson now saying we're due "a payment" from Palace as a result of the start last night which is probably backtracking somewhat from what he said originally about the add on being triggered by his first start.

Might be something in what Nixon said. One or two suggestions there are graduated payments due dependent on number of appearances etc.

Ludicrous.

[roverandout]

Anderson obviously isn't the best midfielder in the league but statistically is 

[K-Hod]

So, because of some arbitrary stats, Elliott Anderson is now better than Adam Wharton? What in the XG is this all about?

Please can someone make it make sense?

[wilsdenrover]

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Dreams of 1995]

The stats may belie reality on the Wharton vs Anderson debate but statistics just spit out facts. Your interpretation of those is what makes it subjective

Objectively, he’s the best rated midfielder in the league, if you are judging a midfielder on whichever statistics he tops. Which to be fair, is pretty much all of them - forward passes, dribbles, touches in the box etc. A lot of those stats are pointing towards a possession based team. 

Wharton plays in a team that counters. And he tops three important categories - through balls, chances created and interceptions.

As the stats go, Anderson is head and shoulders above every English midfielder in terms of an all rounder type player. That said, despite him having more passes and touches than Wharton he creates less chances. That part has been missed in this debate. So has the positioning of the players - Anderson plays wider, whereas Adam Wharton is a very archetypal defensive midfielder who plays as though either side of the 18 yard box is a no go zone. You are taught this at an early age as a DM - you only need to cross into those wide areas when you’re covering your full back. It shows in Adam’s play imo 

Edited 15 hours ago by Dreams of 1995

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The stats may belie reality on the Wharton vs Anderson debate but statistics just spit out facts. Your interpretation of those is what makes it subjective

Objectively, he’s the best rated midfielder in the league, if you are judging a midfielder on whichever statistics he tops. Which to be fair, is pretty much all of them - forward passes, dribbles, touches in the box etc. A lot of those stats are pointing towards a possession based team. 

Wharton plays in a team that counters. And he tops three important categories - through balls, chances created and interceptions.

As the stats go, Anderson is head and shoulders above every English midfielder in terms of an all rounder type player. That said, despite him having more passes and touches than Wharton he creates less chances. That part has been missed in this debate. So has the positioning of the players - Anderson plays wider, whereas Adam Wharton is a very archetypal defensive midfielder who plays as though either side of the 18 yard box is a no go zone. You are taught this at an early age as a DM - you only need to cross into those wide areas when you’re covering your full back. It shows in Adam’s play imo 

He is not head and shoulders ahead of Declan Rice as an all rounder. He is definitely not as good as him.

Those stats are so limited and as you say come down to interpretation, but they merely show that he ranks top at those specific things under the system of wherever those stats come from. If you are judging the best midfielder based solely on who ranks highest on a select few metrics, and nothing else, then you are being foolish.

The problem nowadays is people are too reliant on these stats, which are only a small part of what someone should be looking at. Who a player plays for, the type of player, the style of the team, the dominance or otherwise of a team, it all comes into play. 

You touch on it but Wharton and Anderson are different types of players. I personally think the style of Wharton would compliment Rice more. Anderson is also box to box but that hasnt been a problem against weak teams who havent really looked to exploit any gaps between and behind him and Rice.

[Mike E]

Thinking about England squads of old, are we thinking Anderson is the Gerrard to Wharton’s Scholes?

[J*B]

Wharton’s far more defensively aware than Scholes. Although worth saying before this is posted somewhere on X, clearly not as good a player. 

[Mike E]

Perhaps a Carrick then?

[J*B]

16 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Perhaps a Carrick then?

Exactly a Carrick. 

[KidderStreetNoise]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

Wharton’s far more defensively aware than Scholes. Although worth saying before this is posted somewhere on X, clearly not as good a player. 

Adam is much better than Scholes

[jim mk2]

15 minutes ago, KidderStreetNoise said:

Adam is much better than Scholes

He isn’t, he really isn’t 

[oneandycrawford]

17 minutes ago, KidderStreetNoise said:

Adam is much better than Scholes

On what basis? 

He may end up better than Scholes, who knows?

But better now than a player rated as the best of his era by many top European players? 

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, KidderStreetNoise said:

Adam is much better than Scholes

Laughable comment. Scholes is one of best midfielder going ever in the PL. 

Take their Wharton's tinted glasses off

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He is not head and shoulders ahead of Declan Rice as an all rounder. He is definitely not as good as him.

Those stats are so limited and as you say come down to interpretation, but they merely show that he ranks top at those specific things under the system of wherever those stats come from. If you are judging the best midfielder based solely on who ranks highest on a select few metrics, and nothing else, then you are being foolish.

The problem nowadays is people are too reliant on these stats, which are only a small part of what someone should be looking at. Who a player plays for, the type of player, the style of the team, the dominance or otherwise of a team, it all comes into play. 

You touch on it but Wharton and Anderson are different types of players. I personally think the style of Wharton would compliment Rice more. Anderson is also box to box but that hasnt been a problem against weak teams who havent really looked to exploit any gaps between and behind him and Rice.

Based on what? 

No-one is reliant on them but used it to back people opinion that Anderson is better suited to playing the number 6 (defensive midfielder) role than Wharton at this stage plus how Tuchel wants that role played and how the team play

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Based on what? 

No-one is reliant on them but used it to back people opinion that Anderson is better suited to playing the number 6 (defensive midfielder) role than Wharton at this stage plus how Tuchel wants that role played and how the team play

I dont think the stats do back up that opinion personally. They prove that in the Premier League, playing in predominantly a different role in a team with totally different expectations and a totally different style, Anderson has the most progressive carries etc (which isnt really what I personally think is a priority for a holding midfielder) based on stats from whichever company they come from.

To extrapolate that to believing that hes been the best midfielder in the league or that it proves the argument that Anderson is the ideal candidate to play a different role for England off the back of that is IMO not correct.

[RevidgeBlue]

56 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Laughable comment. Scholes is one of best midfielder going ever in the PL. 

Take their Wharton's tinted glasses off

Christ, what's your beef with Wharton chaddy?

Your obsession with trying to convince everyone that a fairly ordinary Notts Forest player is better than an ex Rover is frankly beyond weird, irrespective of whether you're right or wrong.

[jim mk2]

23 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Christ, what's your beef with Wharton chaddy?

Your obsession with trying to convince everyone that a fairly ordinary Notts Forest player is better than an ex Rover is frankly beyond weird, irrespective of whether you're right or wrong.

Dear me, Rev

It's Nottingham Forest and Notts County

[RevidgeBlue]

45 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Dear me, Rev

It's Nottingham Forest and Notts County

Fair point.

I'm aware of the distinction but couldnt care less not being a fan of either Club.

[roversfan99]

I cant believe the clearly sarcastic suggestion that Wharton is much better than Scholes was has been taken so seriously.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think the stats do back up that opinion personally. They prove that in the Premier League, playing in predominantly a different role in a team with totally different expectations and a totally different style, Anderson has the most progressive carries etc (which isnt really what I personally think is a priority for a holding midfielder) based on stats from whichever company they come from.

To extrapolate that to believing that hes been the best midfielder in the league or that it proves the argument that Anderson is the ideal candidate to play a different role for England off the back of that is IMO not correct.

We just have agree to disagree cos we aren't going to agree one bit

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Christ, what's your beef with Wharton chaddy?

What are going on about now? 

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Your obsession with trying to convince everyone that a fairly ordinary Notts Forest player is better than an ex Rover is frankly beyond weird, irrespective of whether you're right or wrong.

Fairly ordinary player??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Edited 3 hours ago by chaddyrovers

[K-Hod]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Based on what? 

No-one is reliant on them but used it to back people opinion that Anderson is better suited to playing the number 6 (defensive midfielder) role than Wharton at this stage plus how Tuchel wants that role played and how the team play

Only you and your entire argument....