Adam Wharton

[riverholmes]

There's talent and application. Then there's the team. Scholes put it all together to get to the heights. Wharton might be technically there in talent already but the rest has to come.

Bellingham seems to have it all but I don't see the application and teamwork to put him on a par - yet.

[NJRover]

Anyone got a clearer view on how much we get after his England start?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, NJRover said:

Anyone got a clearer view on how much we get after his England start?

It all depends who you mean by “ we “. I suspect Rovers won’t get anything.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I was just watching the bbc highlights of the Palace v Wolves game. Wharton gets a ball on the half turn under pressure and flicks a 25 yd ball with the outside of his left foot straight into the stride of a team mate who then puts Mateta clean through on goal. The lad has a radar in his brain.

[Andy]

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I was just watching the bbc highlights of the Palace v Wolves game. Wharton gets a ball on the half turn under pressure and flicks a 25 yd ball with the outside of his left foot straight into the stride of a team mate who then puts Mateta clean through on goal. The lad has a radar in his brain.

One thing he does exceptionally well is scan the pitch.

Watch him off the ball; he never stops scanning.

The elite players do it and he's always had it in his locker - it's why he's a step ahead of most players he comes up against.

[den]

It’s why no one can get close to him. It’s not two touch football with Adam, it’s one touch. His vision and technique is second to none.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, den said:

It’s why no one can get close to him. It’s not two touch football with Adam, it’s one touch. His vision and technique is second to none.

To non players that pass wouldn’t have looked much but if you’ve ever played you’ll know how good it was. Later on he hits an inch perfect cross field pass with his right foot. You don’t get many left footed players that are happy to use their right foot when the occasion calls for it.

[den]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

To non players that pass wouldn’t have looked much but if you’ve ever played you’ll know how good it was. Later on he hits an inch perfect cross field pass with his right foot. You don’t get many left footed players that are happy to use their right foot when the occasion calls for it.

Yeah, I noted that right footed pass out to the left flank. Perfectly weighted.

[Mike E]

On 20/11/2025 at 12:45, joey_big_nose said:

I think one thing that can be said is Wharton and Anderson have the benefit of the game in England evolving in a way that suits their style. Scholes never really got to play as a deep playmaker until late in his career. Earlier he was played more as a number ten or (ludicrously, particularly for England) on the left which didn't make the most of his talents. His team mate Carrick also suffered from the national team not really understanding the importance of that role. He just wasn't picked at all when in reality his skillset was what was missing the most from the England team at that time.

Tuchel gets it, and he is prioritising playing a natural deep playmaker over more experienced and lauded names, as he knows you need someone who can control a game in the middle of the park.

I think in the modern system, I would argue Scholes gets in alongside Carrick in midfield, with Gerrard roaming behind the lone striker.

That is despite my own belief that Lampard is better than all three 🙃🤯

[joey_big_nose]

5 hours ago, Mike E said:

I think in the modern system, I would argue Scholes gets in alongside Carrick in midfield, with Gerrard roaming behind the lone striker.

That is despite my own belief that Lampard is better than all three 🙃🤯

Lampard better than Scholes and Gerrard is a view you dont hear often!

I guess using recent ways of playing I would try and handle the lack of decent wingers/wide forwards and way too many central attacking midfielders by playing wing backs. Still think the squad was not well balanced though, and not destined to win trophies because of that.

I am a bit surprised we never tried 343 with Beckham as a wing back (to my recollection ).as I think it would have suited his industry and quality of crossing

                           Robinson 

               Terry.  Ferdinand.   King

Beckham.           Scholes           A Cole

                Lampard.      Gerrard

                            Rooney

[Mike E]

37 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Lampard better than Scholes and Gerrard is a view you dont hear often!

I guess using recent ways of playing I would try and handle the lack of decent wingers/wide forwards and way too many central attacking midfielders by playing wing backs. Still think the squad was not well balanced though, and not destined to win trophies because of that.

I am a bit surprised we never tried 343 with Beckham as a wing back (to my recollection ).as I think it would have suited his industry and quality of crossing

                           Robinson 

               Terry.  Ferdinand.   King

Beckham.           Scholes           A Cole

                Lampard.      Gerrard

                            Rooney

I think you’ve cracked the dilemma there.

[J*B]

3 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Lampard better than Scholes and Gerrard is a view you dont hear often!

I guess using recent ways of playing I would try and handle the lack of decent wingers/wide forwards and way too many central attacking midfielders by playing wing backs. Still think the squad was not well balanced though, and not destined to win trophies because of that.

I am a bit surprised we never tried 343 with Beckham as a wing back (to my recollection ).as I think it would have suited his industry and quality of crossing

                           Robinson 

               Terry.  Ferdinand.   King

Beckham.           Scholes           A Cole

                Lampard.      Gerrard

                            Rooney

King would have been injured. Beckham wouldn’t have got back.

Mourinho had it right - he wanted to sign Gerrard and intended to play Gerrard and Lampard as CMs. “They’re good enough to work it out over time”, he said in a later interview. No need to be too clever, play your best 11 players. 

[KentExile]

9 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

                           Robinson 

               Terry.  Ferdinand.   King

Beckham.           Scholes           A Cole

                Lampard.      Gerrard

                            Rooney

Surely you don't think that side is so good that we could have afforded to play with 10? 😉 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by KentExile

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, KentExile said:

Surely you don't think that side is so good that we could have afforded to play with 10? 😉 

 

 

D'oh...!

                         Robinson 

               Terry.  Ferdinand.   King

Beckham.           Scholes           A Cole

                Lampard.      Gerrard

                Rooney.        Owen.

Still super awkward with Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard all getting in each others way... And kind of assumes Scholes would nail the deeper role much earlier than he did in reality.

Thats why today the likes of Rashford, Gordon, Madueke are so important as they look to stretch the play.

8 hours ago, J*B said:

King would have been injured. Beckham wouldn’t have got back.

Mourinho had it right - he wanted to sign Gerrard and intended to play Gerrard and Lampard as CMs. “They’re good enough to work it out over time”, he said in a later interview. No need to be too clever, play your best 11 players. 

Yeah maybe, but unless they played at club level enough together to figure it out I don't think it works. Not enough game time to figure it out at international level. God knows we tried over 8 years.

[roversfan99]

8 hours ago, J*B said:

King would have been injured. Beckham wouldn’t have got back.

Mourinho had it right - he wanted to sign Gerrard and intended to play Gerrard and Lampard as CMs. “They’re good enough to work it out over time”, he said in a later interview. No need to be too clever, play your best 11 players. 

Just playing your best 11 players is not the best strategy, its been the sort of motto that has held England and other teams back over the years. Had Mourinho signed Gerrard to play with Lampard, they would have had Makelele behind them providing the balance.

Beckham was very hard working so that role would have suited him. King could be changed to Sol Campbell.

[joey_big_nose]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Just playing your best 11 players is not the best strategy, its been the sort of motto that has held England and other teams back over the years. Had Mourinho signed Gerrard to play with Lampard, they would have had Makelele behind them providing the balance.

Beckham was very hard working so that role would have suited him. King could be changed to Sol Campbell.

Yeah and they would be playing off Drogba who would suit having them as two number 10s off him. Rooney would want to drop off and play the same game in the same areas as Lampard and Gerrard 

[roversfan99]

Chelsea got Ballack who was also a similar type of player but again, it

The idea of playing your best 11 players regardless of balance is a crazy one. England's team would be interesting going into the summer as it would mean Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Eze, Saka and Kane all starting.

We tried to fit a number of those in together under Carsley. The team was massively imbalanced and we lost to Greece.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Chelsea got Ballack who was also a similar type of player but again, it

The idea of playing your best 11 players regardless of balance is a crazy one. England's team would be interesting going into the summer as it would mean Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Eze, Saka and Kane all starting.

We tried to fit a number of those in together under Carsley. The team was massively imbalanced and we lost to Greece.

A team chock full of “ Artists “ rarely win you trophies. As a team mate of mine use to say - “ A team of Bobby Charltons would win you nothing because you’d never have the ball. “

[davulsukur]

On 22/11/2025 at 21:06, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I was just watching the bbc highlights of the Palace v Wolves game. Wharton gets a ball on the half turn under pressure and flicks a 25 yd ball with the outside of his left foot straight into the stride of a team mate who then puts Mateta clean through on goal. The lad has a radar in his brain.

I watched the highlights of that game this morning and just came here to post highlighting that exact same pass. When he got the ball and the Wolves player was closing him down, in that split second I thought he'd just punted it away to anywhere but no, outside of the foot, straight onto a teammates boot, casual as you like, as if it was nothing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

I watched the highlights of that game this morning and just came here to post highlighting that exact same pass. When he got the ball and the Wolves player was closing him down, in that split second I thought he'd just punted it away to anywhere but no, outside of the foot, straight onto a teammates boot, casual as you like, as if it was nothing.

I know, awesome decision making skills plus the ability to make the pass. He knows where to pass the ball before it arrives. Then Mateta fired it wide !

[roverandout]

Carrick was criminally underrated and underused by England.  He was the perfect player to have behind Gerrard and Lampard. 

[joey_big_nose]

41 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Carrick was criminally underrated and underused by England.  He was the perfect player to have behind Gerrard and Lampard. 

In 442 I'd probably say the best setup would have been to have picked Carrick and Gerrard together in the centre as they would have complemented each other well (Gerrards engine and tackling ability getting him in), Beckham on the right and Joe Cole on the left (the least squarish of the pegs as he could carry the ball out wide and played there somewhat for Chelsea). And then put Lampard and Scholes on the bench. Which is completely mental, but you have to pick the right balance for the team.

Anyway, bottom line is we had too many similar players, and as a result we were substantially worse as a team than those individuals on paper would suggest.

[Tugayisgod]

Interesting just watching this video of Adam in the warm up. Not watching the ball, just constantly looking around as if in a game scenario, looking for options, head up all the time

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPi1u1LDEly/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[riverholmes]

6 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

In 442 I'd probably say the best setup would have been to have picked Carrick and Gerrard together in the centre as they would have complemented each other well (Gerrards engine and tackling ability getting him in), Beckham on the right and Joe Cole on the left (the least squarish of the pegs as he could carry the ball out wide and played there somewhat for Chelsea). And then put Lampard and Scholes on the bench. Which is completely mental, but you have to pick the right balance for the team.

Anyway, bottom line is we had too many similar players, and as a result we were substantially worse as a team than those individuals on paper would suggest.

I agree but, regardless, I don't think England could've done anything. Technically and, probably, psychologically , English players simply couldn't play or deal with possession football, which was dominant internationally. The Guardiola/Spanish revolution changed things a lot, I think, and now playing styles have converged. It might be shifting away again, now, but nonetheless, the 'rondo' is here to stay.

I distinctly remember a Euro U21 tournament, when David Dunn was England captain and hailed by David Platt as the best young player in Europe. The squad had Crouch, Defoe, Gareth Barry, Alan Smith, Jenas, Konchesky - only to be made a fool of in matches by Hugo Viana and Massimo Maccarone.