Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[Rogerb]

The CM APPL 30646/2023 that has appeared on the latest judgement delaying to August is a criminal appeal against FEMA.

It suggests to me the Directorate of Enforcement have now got all their ducks in a row and are ready to pursue Venkateshwara Hatcheries hence the statement of a final hearing.

[Devon Rover]

Just now, bluebruce said:

That's the worst case scenario. The best case scenario is they sell the club. I'd take administration before the scenario above.

Yes, I totally agree. Wrong choice of words. I was trying to think from the perspective of owners and a strategy. Quite the mistake, itself!

[Miller11]

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So to summarise:

They currently can't send ANY money over without permission and if they do so it has to be matched by a security bond for an equivalent amount.

However it SEEMS as though there should be ways around the problem if they wanted to send money badly enough so are you insinuating that they might see these problems as somewhat convenient?

If that were the case, why bother going to Court at all? They could just do a Waggott, shrug their shoulders and say "We've done all we can."

I’m not insinuating anything of the sort. If they didn’t want to carry on owning and funding us they would’ve stopped a long time ago.

I’m considering ways they will still be able to keep doing so despite the court case being delayed again, just as I expect they are.

[Rogerb]

7 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Didn't think about that. If we can't even offer Dolan the same terms we will lose him on a free rather than getting compensation.

Don't the accounts get signed off if they're accurate and not suspicious, rather than because the club is financially secure going forward?

Accountants need to be sure the business is a going concern when they sign it off don't see how they can be until the final hearing in August.

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, Devon Rover said:

I guess the best case scenario is they find a way to reroute sufficient cash to get through until the summer then sell Smod and Carter to keep the life support electricity running a bit longer?

I'd consider that to be the worst case scenario - we limp along for another 6 months with no aim or purpose other than to find enough cash to stay afloat, sell our few remaining assets and have another diabolical transfer window leading to at best another Championship relegation battle next season. No thanks.

Best case scenario is surely that the scum are informed that this arrangement stops in August and then they realise that they have no way of funding the club any further and have no other viable option other than to hand it over to someone else.

 

EDIT - sorry just seen the above

Edited March 14 by JHRover

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I’m not insinuating anything of the sort. If they didn’t want to carry on owning and funding us they would’ve stopped a long time ago.

I’m considering ways they will still be able to keep doing so despite the court case being delayed again, just as I expect they are.

OK thanks. Sorry for putting words into your mouth.

But in devil's advocate mode why not embark one one of those other methods long before now as an interim measure if they were keen to get money over?

[J*B]

8 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I’m not insinuating anything of the sort. If they didn’t want to carry on owning and funding us they would’ve stopped a long time ago.

I’m considering ways they will still be able to keep doing so despite the court case being delayed again, just as I expect they are.

Hopefully they don't bother. 

[bluebruce]

12 minutes ago, Theopinionatedone said:

Worst part is, chant anything anti venkys or anti waggott and either:

A - nobody joins in
B - Our own fans boo you and have a go at you

Most of our fanbase actively deserve this now and have blood on their hands

There's a chance that will change after this latest news. If not, that's their problem, chant it anyway. Fuck those fools, the club is at stake.

[Theopinionatedone]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

There's a chance that will change after this latest news. If not, that's their problem, chant it anyway. Fuck those fools, the club is at stake.

A fan has just told me the venkys have done the honorable thing since being here so...

 

[bluebruce]

7 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Accountants need to be sure the business is a going concern when they sign it off don't see how they can be until the final hearing in August.

That seems strange to me, as I don't see why that matters to an accountant and surely there need to be accounts for the authorities to go over regardless. But I'll take your word for it.

[bluebruce]

Just now, Theopinionatedone said:

A fan has just told me the venkys have done the honorable thing since being here so...

 

Well now they're incapable of doing 'the honourable thing' so that fan needs to change his mind, get a lobotomy or shut the fuck up.

[Miller11]

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

OK thanks. Sorry for putting words into your mouth.

But in devil's advocate mode why not embark one one of those other methods long before now as an interim measure if they were keen to get money over?

I have long since stopped trying to figure out how Venky’s think. 

One scenario might be that one of the directors makes a personal loan to Rovers in the interim. I’m sure Balaji and his siblings all have personal access to a good few tens of millions. It might be a viable way to get us through for a period of time, but probably not what they’d ideally want to do given they have funded it through the parent company.

[BigUts]

Matt Smith on 5Live talking about the potential of buying Rovers (all very tongue-in-cheek sadly)

[Herbie6590]

34 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Didn't think about that. If we can't even offer Dolan the same terms we will lose him on a free rather than getting compensation.

Don't the accounts get signed off if they're accurate and not suspicious, rather than because the club is financially secure going forward?

No, there has to be a going concern statement in there

[philipl]

The only clarity we have at the moment is there is precious little.

They misreported the acquistion of Neville's house and Balaji's birthday party a dozen years ago or so and about 12 months ago the Indian authorities got wise to what happened and caused the funds transfer restrictions and Court cases.

WTF are billionaires doing misreporting such relatively trivial sums? Are they systematic grifters? Was one family member hoodwinking the others?

Next question- is there a systemic problem in India for transferring funds abroad for less than commercial purposes (nobody could claim Rovers are a for-profit investment) or is the restriction of funds transfers specific to Venky's and their tax misreporting?

Then, what is going to take time and what is the finality about August's final hearing?

 

[Herbie6590]

https://ciso.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/grc/understanding-the-implications-of-rbis-overseas-investmentrules-on-indian-investors/103566022

[Herbie6590]

27 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I have long since stopped trying to figure out how Venky’s think. 

One scenario might be that one of the directors makes a personal loan to Rovers in the interim. I’m sure Balaji and his siblings all have personal access to a good few tens of millions. It might be a viable way to get us through for a period of time, but probably not what they’d ideally want to do given they have funded it through the parent company.

Are there any personal foreign exchange restrictions in India? Wouldn’t such an action be seen by the Indian courts as being inflammatory & potential prejudicial? 🤔

[Herbie6590]

@Miller11 if it’s a big family….perhaps they could each send US$250k & we might last till Christmas…😳

[joey_big_nose]

It really feels to me like we have entered the end game now, and that Venkys will not own Rovers in a year. Just too many factors weighing against their continued ownership. Nothing specific - just reached a tipping point that occcurs when you know things will change - sort of similar to when JDT was denied access to the press you knew he was gone in a few weeks. This feels like that just over a longer term.

Id say the vital thing now is to figure out how to give the club the softest landing when the money properly stops as that is surely coming, and get it onto a feasible basis without their support.

What scares me is despite having a very cheap squad we still seem to be utterly dependent on the Venkys money. We really really need to change that. Other clubs have similar low cost squads but are not I believe losing as much money as we are. Why are we so unsustainable? What is our mitigation?

[Herbie6590]

2 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

What is our mitigation?

For any business that sees its income fall off a cliff, the immediate triage is cost-cutting &/or a fire sale of near-liquid assets to generate liquidity.

So expect all saleable players to go in the summer & a series of lay-offs of administration staff & all discretionary spending to be put on hold.

If the club’s directors can’t commit to a going concern statement in the accounts to the satisfaction of the auditors then logically administration must surely come into play…

[Mattyblue]

I’ll make a prediction… Venky’s will own us in a year.

[simongarnerisgod]

im`e not concerned how it ends,just getting rid of the indians is good enough for me,if it means starting from wherever then so be it,we can`t exist like we are at present

[joey_big_nose]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’ll make a prediction… Venky’s will own us in a year.

Alright - I have absolutely nothing to base it on but gut feel that we've hit the tipping point - but I bet you a pint. 

[Mattyblue]

I would love to buy you a pint if that happens, make it a keg.

[roverblue]

They seem the sort of owners who will flog the silver before finally selling or us going into admin. The question is if they have enough working cash to get us through till the transfer window opens. 

In summer they can flog Sammy and a few other potentials for a few million. Then it would need to be the training ground like Readings owner is now doing.

Then after that its administration I guess unless a buyer is found?