Souness must go ?

[broadsword]

How much is John Williams paid then Waggy? And what else should he be doing to justify his "massive" salary? Why does he not come across as a "football man", should he do some ball-juggling at Brockhall? His job doesn't really allow him the scope to demonstrate his football knowledge, chief execs are involved with teh business aspects, not the football aspects.

Bob Coar comes from Burnley, but how do you know that he is a Burnley fan? You're hinting that this interferes with his job, can you prove it?

You present everything as if it's black and white. "Souness lovers" on one side "Souness haters" on the other. It's not as simple as that, if it were Championship Manager would be a training ground for the managers of tomorrow.

[waggy]

Maybe you need to take a deep breath, put your hatred of Souness aside, and realise that the club are being run fairly well.

i do not hate souness,he did a fantastic job in his early years,its just that he has returned to his former ways,ie school ground bully,or little hitler

he has to learn that the souness way might not always be the right way.

[T4E]

he has to learn that the souness way might not always be the right way.

Thats the first sensible thing you've said in quite some time. Now that you've proved yourself capable, try sticking to it.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Not quite got it wrong FLB as its still not overwith -if you read my posts I was questioning why he keeps making the same mistakes and ignoring the obvious not that I wanted him out straight away. I still feel if it hadn't been for the three teams at the bottom we would have been relegated if it had come down to the last day.

What you will find I was clamouring for, was that questions needed to be asked about the above and the negativity coming from his mouth.

In addition, he has to prove to himself and the fans that he has learnt from these mistakes early doors this season. Yes give him the chance but he needs to show he has learnt from mistakes last Season and prove he is the man to lead us forward.

Coming over to Waggy's - comments - I to still have reservations about Coar and am still undecided about Williams, in regard that I still feel he has alot to learn about the fans of Rovers and Football in general, but cannot deny it would appear he seems to be going about it the right way.

What I do know is - there is something slightly amiss at the moment in the corridors of Ewood Park and this woould appear to be having a knock on effect.

[broadsword]

In addition, he has to prove to himself and the fans that he has learnt from these mistakes early doors this season. Yes give him the chance but he needs to show he has learnt from mistakes last Season and prove he is the man to lead us forward.

I think he was quite candid in his comments that about making mistakes last season and trying to learn from them for next season.

I think his biggest mistake so far (apart from Grabbi) has been Yorke, who doesn't appear to have any hunger for the game. I'm so glad he's been sidelined, and hopefully we can shove this parasite off somewhere.

His comments about some foreign players "coming over for a jolly", and his signings of Dickov as a role model for Gallagher and Stead give me cause for guarded optimism. However, all things come to an end at some point, and unless GS wants his Rovers career to end sometime next season, we must have improved performances.

I'm certainly not banking on this season being great, I just hope it all comes together, because I don't want to go through another season like last year again. That was awful.

All these critical remarks about JW and BC seem like guesswork to me, unless people have had direct dealings with them, because they are very much background figures.

[American]

I don't know why we are paying so much attention to Waggy anyhow. He proved he knows fa about football when he talked about the Spanish stars he had never heard of.

[Philly Rover ®]

How much is John Williams paid then Waggy? And what else should he be doing to justify his "massive" salary? Why does he not come across as a "football man", should he do some ball-juggling at Brockhall? His job doesn't really allow him the scope to demonstrate his football knowledge, chief execs are involved with teh business aspects, not the football aspects.

There is far too much involved in this debate for me to wade in now, but I wanted to say a quick piece in response to the JW question. What Bryan says is absolutely balls-on accurate... whether Williams is a "football man" or not is wholly irrelevant, since he deals with the business aspects of the club.

A quick look at American sports shows that people with little to no sports knowledge can be the best executives. The San Francisco 49ers became a powerhouse in the 1980s and 1990s under the leadership of Carmen Policy, a lawyer who didn't know that much about football but understood how the system worked. My Philadelphia Eagles have been good year in and year out for the past couple years thanks to Joe Banner, a businessman with no football background who analyzed the economics of football and used his knowledge to turn the Eagles into the model franchise for the rest of the NFL.

For those who don't get the American sports reference, I apologize, but my point remains the same: sometimes it takes a "non-footballing man" to do the best job for a club. So don't discount what JW is doing for Blackburn Rovers.

[RevidgeBlue]

So...waggy, rover6, philipl, Jim, Scotty, Capt Kayos, Revidge Blue , myself (yes I would myself have been happy enough if he'd resigned after the Leeds game and even before then for that matter) and all the others - we got it wrong!!! Souness stayed and he kept us up.

Too early to say that yet IMO FLB.

Yes, if "normal service" is resumed asap and we finish in the top half of the table then it's fair to say that, for want of a better word, "the Souness out brigade" were wrong and he is the right man for the job.

However if next season kicks off as an extension of the first 32 games of last, where does that leave us exactly? Back to square one.

I don't call stringing four late wins together to avoid the drop, or ten home defeats, or two seasons of poor home performances, or our best players leaving the club, or a frightening number of age thirty something players in the squad as reason for rolling out the bunting just yet.

But as always optimism must prevail at the start of a new season, Ferguson for Flitcroft will be a massive boost, the coaching shake up may have the desired effect and at the end of the day the players are capable of far better than they displayed last time round

[FourLaneBlue]

Rev/Capt Kayos - I think I put my point across poorly. The point I was trying to suggest was that if we had sacked Souness things may have been different. It's very likely Souness will get the sack at some stage- most managers do. If that happens though if anyone says 'told you so' then it doesn't mean a lot really does it? Some people on here seem to think they know exactly what is going to happen. They don't. They can guess, we all can. I'm not suggesting either of you two think that and I agree with the majority of your views on what is going on at Ewood.

As for "Too early to say that yet IMO FLB." Not really...I was only referring to last season. This season is a different matter, Souness is the right man for the job now. When he isn't the right man we will all be in the 'Souness out' brigade. Predicting what will happen is a load of rubbish. It's all guesswork. Here's my prediction...sometime in the future Souness will be sacked. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon and for the rest of your life. Oh no wait...sorry that's Casablanca isn't it? Souness will be here for as long as he is the best man for the job. Just because some posters are constantly pessimistic does give them any more kudos than those who are constantly positive.

Regarding the other comments made by Rev and Capt about the things that must be improved...I agree completely. Souness must deliver an improvement on last season. Not a huge improvement but there must be some improvement. Losing over half our home games is not acceptable.

[waggy]

i believe jw is on 250k a year bri not bad to say the season ticket holders have deserted in droves over the last 2 season's,but i suppose that's not his job either.

i met a lifelong rovers fan earlier this year,who has put forward many brilliant idea's to jw and none have been acted on,happen i should get him to speak to tris,as he seem's to be jw's right hand man.

[broadsword]

So what should he be doing to get more season ticket holders then wiggy?

What's these ideas your mate has come up with?

[waggy]

the guy who put the idea's forward is now a member off this board,so he can if he feels fit share them with the rest.

as for season ticket's,i will leave that to jw and his clan,i do not get paid 250k to do his job.

[broadsword]

But surely if you think it's his fault that season ticket sales are dwindling then you must think he's doing something wrong? So you must have some idea on how to correct the shortfall?

[thenodrog]

i believe jw is on 250k a year bri not bad to say the season ticket holders have deserted in droves over the last 2 season's,but i suppose that's not his job either.

i met a lifelong rovers fan earlier this year,who has put forward many brilliant idea's to jw and none have been acted on,happen i should get him to speak to tris,as he seem's to be jw's right hand man.

So waggy after all the success of the past 14 years (which you neither could nor would never ever have anticipated or even thought possible in the dark dismal years following the abolishment of the max wage), and including the slightly less successful Souness years..... and for a town club like BRFC that is indeed what it has been....... you now want rid of the manager, the centre forward, the chief executive and the chairman! Have I missed the tea lady?

Who would you wish to replace them with ffs? Unless it's you and your mate with the endless list of free advice that JW somehow consistently and irrationally contrives to ignore?

waggy I know this is a mboard and everybody has the right to you their opinion but you really do deserve to be a Burnley fan

[waggy]

when i get banned for holding right wing views i will be a more deserving burnley fan than you gordon

[waggy]

you now want rid of the manager, the centre forward, the chief executive and the chairman! Have I missed the tea lady?

Who would you wish to replace them with ffs?

the manager-mark hughes

the chairman-mr lee

the centre forward- any one of beattie, wiltord or ashton

the chief exec - anyone who in field who supports the rovers.

[Ricky]

the centre forward- wiltord

I've heard it all now!!!!

Wiltord is average at best.

[waggy]

he may be average in your words but he is free,and thats what counts at ewood these days :brfc:my first thoughts was to put sherringham instead off wiltord Edited July 15, 2004 by waggy

[broadsword]

and Ashton has already gone hasn't he? And Beattie is unaffordable.

Anyone who supports the Rovers as Chief Exec? Hmmm ... I seem to remember Peter Ridsdale saying he was a Leeds fan! I'd like a few more hard-nosed attributes in a CEO, gotta say!

[Tom Pringle]

David Sullivan (Birmingham director) is from Cardiff and has no connections to birmingham. He's doing a good job down there.

[T4E]

Waggy, why do you do it?

[thenodrog]

when i get banned for holding right wing views i will be a more deserving burnley fan than you gordon

Not just as simple as that waggy. Get this

Flopsy......."The reansons why he was banned - i knew nothing of it btw was due to continually being abusive and breaking the board rules, as has been pointed out he has been given a number of warnings and the time was felt that it had gone on long enough.

Some past trangressions

- Foul and abusive language

- Concerted abuse towards other members of this board - plus when told off, no attempt at an appolgy

- continuous racist comments and remarks"

SteB......."Or the now edited by gordons comments in the Duff and Dunn threads, advocating violence against Dunny, various transgressions with language"

Paul........"I'll add to the list:

Offering to visit a member's house whilst the member was out to "service" his wife.

Constantly attempting to undermine every action by admin/mods by picking at every decision or post made by us.

Refusing to discuss these matters via the PM and conducting very public rows whenever possible.

Harrassing members of admin/mods to the point where some felt it necessary to take time away from the MB."

Public enemy No 1 eh waggy? But I don't think holding right wing views (which I dont particularly think that I hold anyway) was ever mentioned with the rest of those aforementioned trumped up charges.

ps .......I do admit to advocating running Dunny over and breaking his legs, that wasn't 'trumped up' but only for the insurance money mind. Anyway returning to topic that reminds me just what are we going to do with Yorke and Cole?

[Manchester Blue]

I've got the car for the night TND!!

[philipl]

Interesting turn of debate in the last few posts.

Have to say that whilst I welcone the reinstatement of the drog, I do miss the contributions of people like Bernard.

Souey is undoubtedly a very large step closer to the sack than he was on Monday. Irrespective of how unrealistic or unreasonable Cole's behaviour has been, it is Souness' job to manage his players.

In that respect having to report to the Board on Tuesday that Cole is now unmanageable (by Souness) is a huge admission of defeat/inadequacy on Souness' part. Credit to him to be man enough to admit defeat and to turn to the Board to ask for their support in resolving the situation but he is certainly one more cat's life closer to the day when the Board will be asked to support him and will give a negative answer. Let's hope the on field performance does not bring the Rovers to that situation.

What is most worrying is that in the transfer market, one aberration (Grabbi) has now been added to the three most controversial Souness signings all turning sour as a result of clashes with Souness. These are HIS signings we are talking about, not local boy made good, thinks he's God and takes a liking to pies and page 3 girls.

To have Cole, Yorke and Todd all mouldering away is a criminal waste of the club's scarce resources.

[den]

Good post Philipl.