Ben Brereton Diaz

[tomphil]

So if they found a couple of other young prospects for a more sensible 2 million or so each the till would've remained shut ?

Sorry I don't get that thinking at all, especially when you are trying to build a fresh squad.

More like hey so it's 7 million but get him 50 appearances and he gets a few goals and i'll move him on quick for you for at least double the money I've already got big clubs monitoring him- was the sweet talk that swung it !!!

[philipl]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So if they found a couple of other young prospects for a more sensible 2 million or so each the till would've remained shut ?

Sorry I don't get that thinking at all, especially when you are trying to build a fresh squad.

More like hey so it's 7 million but get him 50 appearances and he gets a few goals and i'll move him on quick for you for at least double the money I've already got big clubs monitoring him- was the sweet talk that swung it !!!

I am not defending the logic of it.

I am saying it as I read the Pune tea leaves.

And what is your insight into the owners' thinking?

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by philipl

[Mattyblue]

Ah I see, so it’s just your opinion Phil.

Fair enough, I don’t think you are a million miles away personally, obviously a model the owners have bought into, as this summer’s incomings have shown, but by the same token couldn’t the £7 million have been spread around on a few Armstrongs?

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, philipl said:

I am not defending the logic of it.

I am saying it as I read the Pune tea leaves.

Its the leaves you are smoking that have me more worried. Especially this early in the morning . What you said was not evidence, just your own opinion or guesswork.

We already know the mantra is young and hungry players, TM himself has said this many times in the past. We are all happy with this seemingly sensible approach. But surely there were other investments around that represented a good chance of doubling in a season or two that cost far less. 

You mentioned noise coming out of the club about XYZ, there was plenty of it. The lad at QPR, Marriott, another striker valued around 7 million that didn't happen due to wages (probably Gallagher).

More so, it seems like very little scouting was done on BB and when TM says he scrutinises every transfer to make sure they are the 'right' kind of player, I would hope that involves making sure he knows a bit about where his best position is. He scores the most goals in training but is not good enough to start up front apparently.

 

[arbitro]

20 minutes ago, philipl said:

Mrs D says very little but she has made it clear she would invest in young players.

An improbable £8m was produced for Jordan Rhodes to back up Shebby so it is only fair that Mowbray be backed with a big ticket signing.

As far as anything in football can be a sure thing, picking up an established under-20 England international who has the attributes of Brereton at his age looks like as safe a bet as you can find in football for protecting £7m.

Fans were debating Brereton or XYZ but I don't recall any noise coming out of the club to that effect.  

 

I remember that quote from the statement when they bought us (along with the one were they would ABSOLUTELY respect the legacy of Jack Walker). Since then we/they have spunked millions on has beens and dross, many of them definitely not young. If you are trying to second guess their motives then good luck but for me that ship sailed many years ago.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Everyone hopes that Brereton scores tomorrow and we win. And the majority of "recent criticism" has not been about the player himself. It has been about the way he has been used and the amount of money he cost in light of the other deficiencies in our squad and how differently we could have spent the money, no one has blamed him for the fee though, that doesnt make any sense. Whilst he continues to play out of position, the spotlight will be on Mowbray more so than Brereton himself.

I also dont need to meet Brereton as I never said it may affect his confidence based on his personality. It is based solely on playing anyone out of position, nothing to do with Brereton himself. I based my theory on if a player is placed somewhere aside from his natural position, he is less likely to play well. Simple as that.

Meaningless platitudes such as "patience and time is needed" and "trust Mowbray" will naturally fall on deaf ears on an internet messageboard, in a thread dedicated to the player in question. He will be judged like anyone else on a game by game basis, and even though the fans in general trust Mowbray, people will always trust what they see with their own eyes over anything else.

Well then fans should take a step back and actually realised what Brereton needs. And stop looking for instant results. 

You are talking alor of rubbish about Brereton's confidence being affected by where he plays. 

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You are talking alor of rubbish about Brereton's confidence being affected by where he plays. 

Do you know him? How would you possibly know that?

[47er]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well then fans should take a step back and actually realised what Brereton needs. And stop looking for instant results. 

You are talking alor of rubbish about Brereton's confidence being affected by where he plays. 

What exactly does Brereton need in your view? You're not trying to draw a link between his performances and any perceived criticism on here are you?

Just a short step further to concluding its the fault of fans for not backing him!

Is that what you are about?

[47er]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You are talking alor of rubbish 

Are you Cilla Black?   

[47er]

Sorry Phil but you have given us a possible theory based on your reading of past events. That's fair enough  but if you are going to start off with "Everybody i missing the wood for the trees" then its fair enough of me to seek something a bit more substantial.

In fact, if this is about gambling not football then Its more likely to be Balaji having a dip isn't it? 

I will hand you this though, if the Raos said to TM "Spend millions on a tall teenage striker and, by the way, that's the only option, spend it or lose it" that would be by far the most convincing explanation for this transfer that I have heard so far!

[Crimpshrine]

I was talking to a Rovers' scout a couple of weeks ago.

His remit is to report only on young (23 or below) British players who are proven at their particular age levels ( ideally international appearances),  will accept a reasonable wage ( he didn't know what this figure was ) and will increase in value over a 2 year period. That's it - Rovers will not permanently sign anyone who does not fit this description. That is what he understands ( not sure if Rothwell or Bell fit completely !)

 He was not aware of any Rovers scout watching Brereton or any reports sent directly to Mowbray - but he admits he wouldn't necessarily know this anyway but sometimes he hears things on the scouting grapevine.

He thinks the fact that Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea definitely had scouts watching  Brereton last season made it a bit of a coup for Rovers to get him but he was not necessarily Mowbray's choice. He just ticked all the boxes and was seen as an investment.

Loans and free signings are entirely in Mowbray's hands but permanent signings, so he has been told,  could be more of a club decision based on the above.  

[unsall]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Everybody is missing the wood for the trees.

There is plenty of evidence from Pune that the owners would not have spent the £7m on Rovers in any other way. So people playing championship manager signing half a team with £7m instead of Brereton are missing the point- it was Brereton or nowt.

Personally I am glad he is here and while nothing is certain in football there is a much better than 50% chance he will be worth £7m as a 22 year old. If he comes as good as some videos and opposition fans suggest, that goes to £20m+.  If he loses it mentally under the £7m tag then his value drops. 

Let's look forwards to him blossoming here and hope he seizes his chances when they come. Remember MGP hardly got a single full game for almost a season after joining us.

Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today.

[Mattyblue]

Name names, who doesn’t trust Mowbray?

[47er]

Just now, unsall said:

Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today.

Ha Ha! I'll go with Crimpshine's version---see above! 

[K-Hod]

20 hours ago, unsall said:

With respect, Brereton is also very fast and tricky, I know we haven’t seen much of him, mainly I’ve watched the Forest clips and he’s certainly no slouch, if we played 4 4 2 I could understand everybody saying he should play next to Graham, but we don’t, and while Graham’s doing the business he’ll have to bide his time.

I hope you’re right in the fullness of time, but he hasn’t show any of those traits in the same way yet. So while he gets up to speed, it seems unfair to play him out of position where those skills would be most required....

[K-Hod]

14 minutes ago, unsall said:

Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today.

You say that people can’t put forward a decent argument, but whenever people disagree with you, you try and shut them down by calling them negative? Rendering debate pointless? ?‍♂️.

Literally everyone hopes for a win, we all support Rovers. We all trust Mowbray, I haven’t seen a single post saying they don’t. 

Go on then, I’ll bite, what other teams buy players for £7 Million in this league, then don’t play? It is what it is, and he’s clearly got a job on to displace Graham, but we can’t pretend it’s normal to spend that amount of money on players that don’t play all the time....

Edited November 3, 2018 by K-Hod

[unsall]

Just now, K-Hod said:

I hope you’re right in the fullness of time, but he hasn’t show any of those traits in the same way yet. So while he gets up to speed, it seems unfair to play him out of position where those skills would be most required....

Yeah I get that, so what are you actually saying should happen, have him as sub and come on for Graham playing up top, or play him from the start instead of Graham, or play him and Graham both up front from the start, and then where does Dack play, he’s not strong enough to be central midfield and wasted on wing. Think we know Brereton and Armstrong both want to play out and out striker, but while Graham and Dack are doing the business they will have to bide their time.

[K-Hod]

Just now, unsall said:

Yeah I get that, so what are you actually saying should happen, have him as sub and come on for Graham playing up top, or play him from the start instead of Graham, or play him and Graham both up front from the start, and then where does Dack play, he’s not strong enough to be central midfield and wasted on wing. Think we know Brereton and Armstrong both want to play out and out striker, but while Graham and Dack are doing the business they will have to bide their time.

I’m saying the first thing, I’ve been saying that for a while tbh. I’d expect a striker coming on as sub for another striker to do the unthinkable and play as a striker! ?

[47er]

Well Philip, Crimpshine has provided evidence.So, For what its worth, I think you got there by the intuition route.

As for  those who say its about trusting Mowbray------I completely agree!

I trust Mowbray not to have made this decision! But the Raos!!!!!----that's another story!

Now how  about you Unsall?

[unsall]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Literally everyone hopes for a win, we all support Rovers. We all trust Mowbray, I haven’t seen a single post saying they don’t. 

Go on then, I’ll bite, what other teams buy players for £7 Million in this league, then don’t play? It is what it is, but we can’t pretend it’s normal to spend that amount of money that don’t play all the time....

Ha ha you keep saying everyone trusts Mowbray, there’s one or two on here who don’t, no names I don’t want any more bans,warnings, everyone is going on about the fee, no one bangs on about Armstrong but he was 3 mil, probably wants to start every game, but he can’t yet, and we’ve had to play him wide,absolutely destroyed Leeds, Brereton  has been bought for the future whether that’s this season or next, 

[K-Hod]

1 minute ago, unsall said:

Ha ha you keep saying everyone trusts Mowbray, there’s one or two on here who don’t, no names I don’t want any more bans,warnings, everyone is going on about the fee, no one bangs on about Armstrong but he was 3 mil, probably wants to start every game, but he can’t yet, and we’ve had to play him wide,absolutely destroyed Leeds, Brereton  has been bought for the future whether that’s this season or next, 

It just lacks credibility if you don’t quote posts explicitly saying they don’t trust Mowbray IMO. You’d never get any sort of action for quoting someone’s opinion... Besides, he’s the most trusted manager we’ve had in years! 

Wasn’t Armstrong £1.75 Million?

Edited November 3, 2018 by K-Hod

[Mattyblue]

There’s a difference between trusting the manager/being delighted with the job he’s doing and questioning individual decisions.

[unsall]

12 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I’m saying the first thing, I’ve been saying that for a while tbh. I’d expect a striker coming on as sub for another striker to do the unthinkable and play as a striker! ?

Fair enough.?

[47er]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

There’s a difference between trusting the manager/being delighted with the job he’s doing and questioning individual decisions.

 Do we trust the Raos might be the real question. That would not surprise me in the least. Leopards, spots and all that!

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, unsall said:

Ha ha you keep saying everyone trusts Mowbray, there’s one or two on here who don’t, no names I don’t want any more bans,warnings, everyone is going on about the fee, no one bangs on about Armstrong but he was 3 mil, probably wants to start every game, but he can’t yet, and we’ve had to play him wide,absolutely destroyed Leeds, Brereton  has been bought for the future whether that’s this season or next, 

Just because Mowbray has done a fantastic job it doesn't mean that he doesn't get somethings wrong. He's not infallible just ask Celtic fans. Like every manager he is capable of signing a dud even Ferguson signed a few in his time at United as has Guardiola in his time in management.

We can only base Brereton on what we have seen so far and it has not been very good (I don't think anyone would argue otherwise), hopefully he will look better when given a chance through the middle. I would also agree with you that there are question marks about Armstrong at this level as he looks one dimensional and weak and you can see why he has struggled at this level previously.