Rovers Versus Tottenham

[Fife Rover]

...irrelevantly. I don't know where that myth came from, but it has nothing to do with the offside law.

It came from the fact that others much earlier in this little controversy have used the words that the pass 'was made in a backward direction to Berbatov'. I was just dealing with each and every argument point that has been used so far.

[den]

...irrelevantly. I don't know where that myth came from, but it has nothing to do with the offside law.

Because if a pass goes backwards, you can't be offside.

[Hasta]

These lines on the shot below have been created to the perspective of the white pitch marking lines.

The ball is the little red dot which is almost touching the green line.

Berbatov is the guy whose foot is on the red line.

Onside

[tony gale's mic]

edit

[tony gale's mic]

Tugay had skill, Tugay excited me when he was on the ball, Tugay was/is a master of the ball, Tugay was crowd pleaser comparing Tugay with Vogel especially at the 31 year old stage i cant see one thing were Vogel comes anywher near close enough to the Turk based on saturdays performance.

I was asking if you were one of the Dunny camp whom i've had been having a spat with over the past twelve months not comparing him to Vogel.

Yesteryear is wonderful thing if you've shared an experience with someone, but Kaka ive seen admired and the world knows hes a wonderfull player but how many knew of Vogel, i know i hadnt until he arrived on our doorstep a couple of months ago.

What i saw on saturday didnt inspire me regardless of him not playing for so long and its not just me there are many other Rovers fans who feel the same but they'll give him more time which maybe i accept i'm impatient, maybe i've jumped the gun, been too critical too soon, but when your looking forward to something and it doesnt quite match up with your expectations then i couldnt bottle things up and say everything is alright when clearly i felt it wasnt.

I'd heard of Vogel, however it appears your knowledge of football is rather minimal so I wouldn't have expected someone like yourself to have heard of him. Fact is he was an important part of what was one of the best teams in Europe at that particular time (PSV when they reached the CL Semis) and Milan must have seen something in him.

Did Tugay do all those things in his first game when we lost 1-0 at Sunderland on his debut?! I wasn't at that game myself but I would be very surprised if he did, it's probably likely he gave a performance similar to the rest of the team. And for Tugay's great performances over the years don't tell me you've never been frustrated with him. You're painting him as a Cristiano Ronaldo type character when he was often very frustrating to watch. Don't get me wrong he's been a great player for us all in all but you seem to have a selective memory.

And comparing Tugay to Vogel at the 31 year old stage?! Once again if you missed it before, Tugay was 31 when he joined us!

[Manchester Blue]

Well for what it's worth, on first viewing at full speed I thought he was onside. On viewing those pictures it appears even more clear that he is onside.

[bellamy11]

The circles obviously represent the ball and Berbatov's feet. Look how much closer the ball is to the darker strip of grass than Berbatov's feet. I can see how the decision is close, but it's definitely onside. Why are people struggling to accept it?

[tony gale's mic]

The circles obviously represent the ball and Berbatov's feet. Look how much closer the ball is to the darker strip of grass than Berbatov's feet. I can see how the decision is close, but it's definitely onside. Why are people struggling to accept it?

Blue and white-tinted specs of most of the folks on here, same reasoning that leads people to describe our penalty claim as 'stonewall'. I've seen them given and wouldnt have said it definitely wasnt but to describe it as stonewall is ridiculous.

[Presty On Tour]

Andy Gray must be in fearing his employment at sky sports with some of you lot about, good work.

[LeChuck]

Because if a pass goes backwards, you can't be offside.

The law isn't written like that Den as far as I'm aware.

If you're behind the ball when it's played you can't be offside. I can't think of any situation where the receiving player would be ahead of the ball/attacker and the ball be played backwards, it would just never happen. A backwards pass will mean 99.9% of the time that the receiving player is behind the ball, that's why they're not offside, it has nothing to do with the direction of the ball.

[den]

The circles obviously represent the ball and Berbatov's feet. Look how much closer the ball is to the darker strip of grass than Berbatov's feet. I can see how the decision is close, but it's definitely onside. Why are people struggling to accept it?

Because you have to see the goal from the riverside camera, as O2G keeps saying. That camera is in line and he's offside. Only just, but he's offside.

Those pics posted on here aren't taken level with the ball, so it's pointless using that as evidence.

[AggyBlue]

It doesn't matter whether it can be proven one way or the other.

The opinion of the referee was that he was onside.

Facts don't matter, the opinion of the ref does.

[krislu]

Because you have to see the goal from the riverside camera, as O2G keeps saying. That camera is in line and he's offside. Only just, but he's offside.

Those pics posted on here aren't taken level with the ball, so it's pointless using that as evidence.

Listen, this is laughable! If there are pleny of discussion whether the goal is offside or not then the referee was spot on when letting play go on! If in doubt he should rule in favour of the attacking team, read the rules..

Its the same with penalties, if you need to see a penalty claim 3-4 times in slowmotion to judge whether it is a penalty, well then its not!

[LeftWinger]

If in doubt he should rule in favour of the attacking team, read the rules..

I'm pretty sure that isn't in the rules.

For the record - I think he was onside.

[T4E]

If you mean during the replay Den, I have paused it, that's where I took the above image from.

He's onside.

Whilst I totally agree with you, I have to point out that there is no such thing as "onside". You're either offside, or you're not.

[modes98]

The circles obviously represent the ball and Berbatov's feet.

You have to consider any part of his body that he can score with and not just his feet.

I'm pretty sure that isn't in the rules.

The rules say if there is doubt then the advantage goes to the attacking team. Not that it ever happens!

Den have you got a still from the riverside camera? At the time i thought he was offside but i haven't seen a reply to suggest he was.

[Hasta]

Whilst I totally agree with you, I have to point out that there is no such thing as "onside". You're either offside, or you're not.

OK, I consider myself reprimanded.

[LeftWinger]

The rules say if there is doubt then the advantage goes to the attacking team. Not that it ever happens!

Offside Rule

The rules say no such thing!

[Hasta]

Because you have to see the goal from the riverside camera, as O2G keeps saying. That camera is in line and he's offside. Only just, but he's offside.

I have now seen the goal from the Riverside camera. That camera is not in line. It's nowhere near being in line.

Even so, if you look at the ball and follow the line of the six yard box he's still not offside.

I'm currently looking for the shots from the Blackburn Blimp and Dimitar's playercam footage.

edit - MOTD footage link

[den]

OK Hasta I give in. I gave in before, but Fife talked me out of it.

[LeftWinger]

This is why decisions like this need to go to a video referee. He could then draw lines on the pitch, and study numerous camera angles, and then by sometime on Tuesday - he could finally decide it probably was onside and the game can resume as normal.

[Hasta]

OK Hasta I give in. I gave in before, but Fife talked me out of it.

I have to admit when I saw the riverside footage I was a bit concerned until I actually paused it at the point when Jenas plays the ball.

It does show how a poorly positioned linesman will give wrong decisions.

[CAPT KAYOS]

It does show how a poorly positioned linesman will give wrong decisions.

Something I mentioned ages ago , especially at Ewood where most of the time the linesman are never up with play.

As for the goal I was more worried about our defending rather than whether Berbatov was offside or not.

[philipl]

Quite an enjoyable game if miserable result. My high/low points were:

First Half

- their goal; we were opened up far too easily and left Berbatov all on his own like he had halitosis or something (ok- he's a smoker so he stinks but that is still no reason for not being close to him). Berb's first touch was awful and I still wonder if Warnock got something on it for an og.

- our goal; Reid produced a sublime pass the like of which he hasn't produced since he came back, Bentley's control magical and pass to MGP pinpoint. MGP would have been beaten to a pulp if he skied that one like all his other chances but thankfully he potted it.

- Vogel; I think we have a class player on our hands. First 30 minutes Spurs' midfield cut us to ribbons but as soon as Vogel got used to the Prenmiership game, Spurs midfield was nullfied and we bossed it.

Second Half

- Roberts penalised twice when in goal scoring positions; why and why?

- Bentley penalty; ok reverse the same incident to our end of the pitch and it is a certain penalty and red card for Samba.

- Santa Cruz dribbling through their entire rearguard from the edge of the area to the by-line. One of those magical moments that will live long in the memory after the gme itself is forgotten.

I don't know what is worse. The quality of officiating or the quality of JAL's posts. Well I do, JAL isn't costing us a place in Europe.

[T4E]

As for the goal I was more worried about our defending rather than whether Berbatov was offside or not.

Aha, now we're talking. All of this offside debate detracts from the fact that we'd somehow left one of the most dangerous players in the Premiership totally unmarked on the edge of our 6 yard box!