Academy & U21s

[K-Hod]

It's great that we want to promote academy players and it's something I fully support.

With the added caveat that they have to be good enough, otherwise, unfortunately, they'll drag us down.

[Mattyblue]

Yep, not sure why this is even up for debate. If they are good enough they’ll get games, but you don’t just chuck them in to hit some arbitrary minutes target.

[Tomphil2]

I'm fully on board with the youth pathway etc but there has to be a balance to it other than keep growing a team every few years then selling it to pay bills whilst praying to stay in the Championship.

What's the end game ?    Is there one or is there just a set of people there now creating their own agenda with their agent pals ?

When they brought JDT and GB in and the new DoF structure it seemed like a bit of a mini revolution to modernise things and actually try and build a top 6 side on a small budget.  However that soon went tits up and it now looks like it was all being done as a desperate grow/polish/sell act because of the owners withdrawing regular necessary financial support.

Time for some honesty from this club.

Edited 7 hours ago by Tomphil2

[MarkBRFC]

I wonder if they have bothered to try and tie down Tyjon yet?

Probably a really low ball offer is my guess and he will leave next summer for minimal compensation.

[Parsonblue]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In the Rochdale game he did nothing. He should have been a level above everybody else on the pitch. As it was he looked really ordinary. He didn’t look interested to be honest. Plus - he’s not very big. I know Alan Wright wasn’t very big either but he turned out to be top class, however players like him don’t come along very often.

I've watched Duru quite a bit over the last few seasons and he looks a really good prospect.  He did well at Barrow until injury ended his season early.  He's really quick, tackles well and isn't afraid to have a pop at goal.  He's much much in the modern full-back mould.  You never know with youngsters, but he's definitely one of our better prospects. 

[KentExile]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In the Rochdale game he did nothing. He should have been a level above everybody else on the pitch. As it was he looked really ordinary. He didn’t look interested to be honest. Plus - he’s not very big. I know Alan Wright wasn’t very big either but he turned out to be top class, however players like him don’t come along very often.

There is at least a good 5 inch difference between Duru (5ft 9 or 5ft 10 depending upon source) & Wright (5ft 4)

Not to say that Duru wasn't disappointing in the Rochdale game, he was poor that day, as was the rest of the team on that day

Edited 5 hours ago by KentExile

[RoverCanada]

On Duru, he did apparently impress at Barrow in L2 before his injury and, for what it's worth, caught the attention of the USA u20s for a few appearances with them too, so I think he had a promising year. But, agreed that he shouldn't be counted on for the Championship just yet. A loan in L1, and a season without injury, should do him well.

On Academy 'targets', I'm not adding anything already discussed, but while Academy minutes are certainly a metric of interest, any outright 'target' violates Goodhart's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law

Let alone whether minutes alone can really mean anything when the output of Academy products is so bimodal and heterogeneous, with the likes of Travis, long graduated, logging 3000+ min alone, another 2000+ min from JRC/Buckley, yet probably failed years for both of them, Carter probably would've logged ~3000 if it wasn't for injury... and if you rule them out based on age (but why? Part of the Academy's value is if it churns out a durable asset that means we don't have to deploy our budget for a senior player, even in cases where we don't ultimately profit from a player sale, eg, Nyambe), the minutes dramatically drop to a bit under 300min across Montgomery, Tyjon, and Leonard, where it doesn't make sense to think they should have played more than that due to injuries and Montgomery first needing to show promise on a loan.

There's maybe some value in also having Academy players available to fill bench spots as needed, and maybe blood them opportunistically, as injuries crop up, but that can get out of hand (just look at this lineup: https://www.skysports.com/football/sheffield-wednesday-vs-blackburn-rovers/484926), especially when used as an excuse to otherwise not invest in squad depth (yet, surprisingly if you think about it, we were scraping the max roster limit this past year!)

15 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Was it even decided? They really drag their feet with these tribunal things and aren't the outcome details usually public? Or did we agree a fee with them instead?

8 hours ago, KentExile said:

Possibly not yet.  But given the communication skills of those in charge ar Rovers, its unlikely we will ever find out anyway

Edit - Apparently it took 18 months for the Elliott tribunal (I suppose given when this was, it may have been delayed due to covid but I do not know for certain), and 9 months for the Ings decision (those are the 2 that immediately sprang to mind, but I am sure there will be others). 

So yes,  it could be that it has not happened yet

Another benchmark - and perhaps in the ballpark of what we can expect to get for Finneran (perhaps more backloaded/add-on given his lack of senior games) - is the Mahoney compensation: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16229661.ruling-reveals-fee-rovers-will-receive-connor-mahoney/ Mahoney left in July 2017 and the tribunal fee was published in May 2018. So, would maybe expect a decision around now...

£425k up front, plus £100k for every 10 first-team appearances up to 50 apps / £500k, £250k if he was capped by England, and 20% of any sell-on profit. Obviously didn't trigger either any of those appearance bonuses, but apparently went to Millwall for £1.1m, so we ultimately got £425k + 20%*(1.1m-.425m)= £560k for Mahoney. 

If I remember right, this was made public because it did go to a tribunal decision as Bournemouth and Rovers couldn't agree on a deal. Not sure if that's still the case for tribunal-determined fees.

Edited 1 hour ago by RoverCanada

[islander200]

Didn't gestede say in one of those podcasts that a right back would be a transfer Target this summer 

Said about wanting competition for Brittain, so if that's the case probably planning on loaning Duru out again 

[roversfan99]

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Obsessing again over This minutes stuff

I have been quite clear that I would promote 3 young players to the squad and who they were but also have 5 or 6 promising players around the 25 man squad. Michalski isn't included in my 3 as he was 3rd choice this past season 

Im sure at one point in the transfer thread you said we needed 10 signings.

It seems like youve reigned in your expectations to match what Gestede has said.

[rigger]

6 hours ago, K-Hod said:

It's great that we want to promote academy players and it's something I fully support.

With the added caveat that they have to be good enough, otherwise, unfortunately, they'll drag us down.

Your caveat, is the most important point.

[47er]

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Yep, not sure why this is even up for debate. If they are good enough they’ll get games, but you don’t just chuck them in to hit some arbitrary minutes target.

The minutes target is a diversionary tactic, youngsters are going to be thrown in at the deepens because they are cheap and we haven't signed adequate replacements

[KentExile]

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2025/may/16/paul-promoted-to-senior-academy-position/

 

Long story short

Paul Gray promoted to Head of Academy

John Prince promoted to  Head of Academy Coaching 

 

 

Club are also advertising for a Loan manager

https://www.rovers.co.uk/club/job-vacancies

 

Looks like 3 positions to replace Stuart Jones  who left recently, & Jordan McCann who joined Arsenal in January

Edited 52 minutes ago by KentExile