[Archived] Burton away - Friday 24 Feb - 6 pointer

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Talking to folk at the club at Burton, they felt it was a must win game for them - presumably because of some difficult fixtures coming up.  A draw was not the result either club wanted but neither club could afford to lose.  So I suspect whilst neither club is happy, neither club will be too disappointed.  But we do need to start winning.  Seven points from the next three home games would be a good springboard going forward.

Clough was 'delighted' with a point.

Meanwhile our next three home games become even more massive as a result of this.

14 cup finals left of the 15 Dunny talked about. I guess he didn't really mean 15 though.

[47er]

The simple fact is that the urgency for wins has come about because Coyle wasn't sacked earlier.

Indeed,he never should have been appointed at all.

This is Venky's fault and in no way Mowbray's.

Still not doomed, clubs above us not doing well but it will be very hard from here, I accept that, but in no way could the solution be to cram 2 weeks into two days and  2 weeks is the minimum Mowbray needs.

If I recall correctly, Mark Hughes first games were not encouraging.

Keep on taking the tablets!  

 

 

 

[jim mk2]

We'll be relegated because of our form over the course of the whole season, 40-odd matches, not one apparent "must-win" match away to Burton Albion.

People having a hissy fit after the match and carrying it on the following morning should go and have a lie down for the rest of the day.

 

 

[Stuart]

Just now, 47er said:

The simple fact is that the urgency for wins has come about because Coyle wasn't sacked earlier.

Indeed,he never should have been appointed at all.

This is Venky's fault and in no way Mowbray's.

Still not doomed, clubs above us not doing well but it will be very hard from here, I accept that, but in no way could the solution be to cram 2 weeks into two days and  2 weeks is the minimum Mowbray needs.

If I recall correctly, Mark Hughes first games were not encouraging.

Keep on taking the tablets!  

 

Let's hope we don't finish the season in 22nd, one point behind Burton. Because it's a very distinct possibility.

[duggy9197]

The logic of the last 6 seasons we need 15 more pts from 14 games,it will be tough but i have faith in TM.

[47er]

Just now, Stuart said:

Let's hope we don't finish the season in 22nd, one point behind Burton. Because it's a very distinct possibility.

Well, we all hope that but it could easily be that close. However you can't mandate a win in any one game. On any given day, any team can beat any other (or draw!).

 

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

Again. Sigh.

Regardless of who was in charge last night. It was a must win game.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that everyone has given up.

 

Given up what? Caring? I'd doubt many would be online would they. Do you mean caring by your definition, aka not slagging the new manager off after 48 hours because he picked your favourite scapegoat in midfield?

The manager should've been changed when you started the thread in November. Coyle should never have been appointed. Lambert should never have been allowed to walk. We should've invested the Rhodes, Hanley et al cash. We should've replaced GB sooner. We should've invested the Gestede/Cairney etc etc the list of failure after failure goes on for 6 years.

Moral of the big picture, how can *Tony Mowbray turn a sinking ship round in the time it takes to eat a packet of crisps? If we agree that he cannot be expected too - hold people accountable, but perhaps some with responsibility. Jason Lowe perhaps? You're good at that

Slating isn't the word either, it's called agreeing or disagreeing. I disagree with putting the boot in the manager as of yet. I'm not "defending" TM either, it's my view.

[blueboy3333]

15 minutes ago, Stuart said:

 

Regardless of who was in charge last night. It was a must win game.

 

Why was it a must-win game?

[AggyBlue]

Great to hear the fans fully behind the team and manager last night, creating a positive atmosphere.

I thought Lowe had a good game, as did Guthrie, particularly in the first half.

Graham needs a rest.  Joao looks hopeless.

What a horrible read the message board was after getting home last night. The ignore function has vastly improved it this morning.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, AggyBlue said:

Great to hear the fans fully behind the team and manager last night, creating a positive atmosphere.

I thought Lowe had a good game, as did Guthrie, particularly in the first half.

Graham needs a rest.  Joao looks hopeless.

What a horrible read the message board was after getting home last night. The ignore function has vastly improved it this morning.

I stopped reading it. I thought some of the posts in other threads were irrational ,until I started reading the nonsense in this one last night. 

[Blue blood]

Get why Stuart is disappointed - it was one of our more winnable games, and we really need the points. 

However, a draw was far from a disaster - especially when you think how much TM had to undo. When standard defensive work is new to players you start to see the size of the task before him. Add in some things, no matter how great a manager, that he physically couldn't change - such as fitness - and you can't say TM should have won. Heck, I'm not sure you can change habits and patterns of thoughts in 48 hours, certainly without exhausting them through keeping them at the training ground the whole time! 

Another thing to consider is that TM needs to have time to assess the players and is not going to clock within 48 hours how good each player is. Added to which I'm not sure what other options he had available due to injuries and suspensions. 

Overall I'm not too gutted with a point - especially as it was more important Burton didn't win as they would've really pulled away from us. Wigan are stalling, Bristol are plummeting, so as long as we keep chipping away at the points I think we will be ok. Granted it's in part due to the other teams being appalling but I feel the points needed this year will be pretty low (although we still have to get some!) and there are a lot of contenders to join us in scrapping it out for relegation.  

[Gav]

30 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You have a point. I was furious last night and actually did well to restrain myself against post after post slating me.

In terms of why, the gravity of last night hasn't dawned on you yet, Gav.

Nobody can blame you for being angry and passionate Stuart, just don't try to take on all the pub, it usually ends badly

As for the gravity of last night, I think it was a point gained rather than 2 lost, I was convinced we'd lose last night and I've been convinced for sometime now that we'll go down this season and that dumbs down your expectations I suppose.

 

[cmb211087]

Some of the posts last night are unbelievable. We got a point away against a team that had got 4 out of their last 6, a few days after we appointed a new manager. A match we would have lost under the last person to impersonate a manager.

He wouldn't have had time to implement anything new, so he clearly went with what nearly worked against Manchester United (other than Lowe back in cm which I suspect was more to do with Mulgrew pulling up in the United game).

I predicted a draw so am happy with that due to the circumstances. Now if he picks the same team next match after having time and training to judge, then by all means start having hissy fits, but give him more than a couple days chance!

[wolfie]

1 hour ago, booth said:

Your 4 year old Grandson says f***?!

Only when he runs out of beer and offy's shut...

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, cmb211087 said:

Some of the posts last night are unbelievable. We got a point away against a team that had got 4 out of their last 6, a few days after we appointed a new manager. A match we would have lost under the last person to impersonate a manager.

He wouldn't have had time to implement anything new, so he clearly went with what nearly worked against Manchester United (other than Lowe back in cm which I suspect was more to do with Mulgrew pulling up in the United game).

I predicted a draw so am happy with that due to the circumstances. Now if he picks the same team next match after having time and training to judge, then by all means start having hissy fits, but give him more than a couple days chance!

Mulgrew had to go cb because Greer was injured. Who else could go there? It's a pity we don't have 2 Mulgrews;1 for CB and 1 for CM. 

[gumboots]

59 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Again. Sigh.

Regardless of who was in charge last night. It was a must win game.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that everyone has given up.

If we are going to use the time argument then that is going to get trotted out every week right up to and including relegation. Because 14 games "isn't enough time". It's a defeatist attitude.

By the common logic on here, last night and this morning, no team should EVER expect a "new manager bounce" (clearly a myth) and we shouldn't have been targeting the Burton match as a win at all.

Meanwhile...

http://mobile.burtonalbionfc.co.uk//news/article/2016-17/nigel-cloughs-blackburn-reaction-3590566.aspx

Nigel Clough was 'delighted' to get a point against Blackburn and avoid losing ground to us. How on earth can he feel delighted? It was patently obvious Rovers would not win this match because we had a new manager.

And even...

http://m.burtonmail.co.uk/nigel-clough-hopes-to-avoid-new-manager-bounce-as-burton-albion-host-blackburn-rovers/story-30159156-detail/story.html

...before the game Clough even admitted he was fearful of us with a new man in charge. Why? He must've have known there is nothing that a new manager can do at such short notice. He must be privately laughing his socks off at his own mind games.

But regardless of all that, even with Coyle in charge this should have been a big win for us and the gap between us and Burton 3 instead of 6 and relying on other teams to do us a favour. And people say I need to get a grip!

I understand your frustration and anger but I do think our players were further down than we perhaps realise. When did this group consistently look like winners of back to back matches. It's home games we really need to win. Points away from home are bonuses. And of course I wouldn't be saying he's only just started if he's had 2 or 3 games. That's a good 7 days training and you can do a lot in 7 days in terms of mentality and fitness. Surely too players who have let themselves go somewhat will want to do more themselves. If you start to feel better about yourself you want to do more to keep that feeling. Not losing last night was vital. Winning would have been better obviously but knowing our players they'd think they'd turned a corner and relaxed next game. New manager bounce is good but it can be short lived. Improved training tactics and fitness will bring more benefit even in the short term.

[onlyonejackwalker]

No prizes given out in February. No-one relegated either unless you are called Rotherham. Not picking on Stu, but as of yesterday that wasn't a must win game. As he says however it might be one we regret at the end of the season, but theres about 20 other games already with that monika.

Our most winnable games have surely got to be at fortress Ewood. 

Genuine must win games will soon be here, not long to wait now. 

[Stuart]

What do you define as a must win game, oojw, if not a 6 pointer against a poor side and relegation rival?

[cmb211087]

Stuart, you are saying they are a poor side. Based off their last 6 games they are a top half team (form based). Maybe poor earlier in the season but not at the moment. A point was good for us at the moment.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Just now, Stuart said:

What do you define as a must win game, oojw, if not a 6 pointer against a poor side and relegation rival?

Stu, you've got a point and I'm not joining in the wave of posts after you. 

It was Burton away and I thought we would lose 3-0 under Coyle. Our contuned fall is amazing to see.

Lots of points to play for and many games will throw up suprising results. Technically, must win is when no room for manouvre exists. Personally i think that was a bad result for Burton, not us, with them being at home. 

Bristol and Wigan look the obvious ones to attack. May yet see one of the Midlands clubs dragged into it if lower clubs can actually win a game or two. 

We need to do our job, at home. Like its always been. Lots of away wins would be super, but with 7 wins all year somewhat unrealistic.

Allardyce showed how to do it. Win a number of home games and you can write some away matches off and still finish happily mid-table.

We don't need promotion form to move up a place or two and the worst thing we could have done yesterday is start flapping and panic, make too many changes, unsettle too many people, lose the game badly and watch Burton move 9 clear whilst further damaging our goal difference and morale.

Credit to our fans!!!!!!

[A cup of beans]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Clough was 'delighted' with a point.

Meanwhile our next three home games become even more massive as a result of this.

14 cup finals left of the 15 Dunny talked about. I guess he didn't really mean 15 though.

Stuart, I say this as someone who likes your postings.  I think you need to calm it down a bit.

You're getting too worked up. Searching for disagreement.

 

[Athlete]

1 hour ago, AggyBlue said:

 

 

 Joao looks hopeless.

If Senior is going to sign or loan players like Joao wtf chance does anyone in the hot seat have 

But let's cross that bridge once Mowbray gets us safe 

[Stuart]

Just now, A cup of beans said:

Stuart, I say this as someone who likes your postings.  I think you need to calm it down a bit.

You're getting too worked up. Searching for disagreement.

 

No I'm not.

In fairness, disagreement seems to be searching for me!

Look closely, in the main you'll see people naming me in their posts and me responding.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, AggyBlue said:

Great to hear the fans fully behind the team and manager last night, creating a positive atmosphere.

I thought Lowe had a good game, as did Guthrie, particularly in the first half.

Graham needs a rest.  Joao looks hopeless.

What a horrible read the message board was after getting home last night. The ignore function has vastly improved it this morning.

Scary when you think of the striking situation next season as two are loans obviously and i wouldn't be surprised to see Senior try and ship out Graham for someone on cheaper wages. 

Hope Mowbray can spot a striker or 3 on loan as i fear if Senior has his way the likes of joao will be coming in as main man.

[Gav]

Just now, Stuart said:

 

In fairness, disagreement seems to be searching for me!

 

 

No it doesn't