World Cup 2018

[Butty]

39 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Spain and Belgium both have vastly superior first XIs compared to England.

Argentina's defence is not that great, but is it really any worse than ours? 

One thing I will agree on is that with both the Dutch and the Italians out it is a bit easier than previously. 

But still we're massive outsiders. 

Yeah without doubt we are outsiders. By having a good run I meant potentially making the quarter finals  Belgium as good as their squad is have struggled at the last couple of major tournaments and I have my doubts with them and Martinez as a manager but if they click they will surely go far as their squad on paper is one of the best in the tournament. De Bruyne and Hazard with Lukaku up top and the likes of Vertonghen and Alderweireld at the back with Courtois in goal is a spine as good as any in the tournament especially when you can throw players like Mertens and Carrasco into the mix too. 

[JacknOry]

Belgium have their 'golden generation' but it seems they are underperforming the same as when we had ours. On paper, individually, you would have to put them up there in the top 5 but they never seem to gel as a team in the major comps. They have at least four players you could call truley world class but as a team they always flatter to deceive.

[Stuart]

15 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Belgium have their 'golden generation' but it seems they are underperforming the same as when we had ours. On paper, individually, you would have to put them up there in the top 5 but they never seem to gel as a team in the major comps. They have at least four players you could call truley world class but as a team they always flatter to deceive.

When you have that kind of group, the final piece is having a manager who is prepared to make tough decisions about the players he needs to drop to get the best XI.

No England manager ever dared to drop Lampard or Gerrard to play Scholes where he could have dictated play. Lampard and Gerrard should have been competing for one spot not two.

[Raya4espania]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

When you have that kind of group, the final piece is having a manager who is prepared to make tough decisions about the players he needs to drop to get the best XI.

No England manager ever dared to drop Lampard or Gerrard to play Scholes where he could have dictated play. Lampard and Gerrard should have been competing for one spot not two.

IMO scholes got plenty of chances for england, in his preferred role too, but never looked that good in international football, esp against the better teams.

[Stuart]

24 minutes ago, Raya4espania said:

IMO scholes got plenty of chances for england, in his preferred role too, but never looked that good in international football, esp against the better teams.

Disagree. He was foisted out on the left wing most of the time that he even got a look in.

Beckham Lampard Gerrard... ooh, erm, well fit Scholes in somewhere.

The irony is that his lack of inclusion probably made him the player he was at United.

[Stuart]

17 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Correct. Gerrard and Lampard were always in their element with a defensive midfielder holding the fort. At Liverpool, Gerrard had the likes of Xabi Alonso or Mascherano picking up the pieces. At Chelsea, Lampard had the likes of Makelele or even Mikel playing behind him. That gave both Lampard and Gerrard the freedom to drive forward, which is where both their strengths lied.

During our Golden Generation, I'm not sure we had someone to fit into the defensive midfield role, and I always got the feeling that Gerrard didn't want to be playing there when Lampard was further forward. We were always sorely exposed at the back, and paid the price on countless occasions.

Agreed. They were basically the same player.

[speeeeeeedie]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

When you have that kind of group, the final piece is having a manager who is prepared to make tough decisions about the players he needs to drop to get the best XI.

No England manager ever dared to drop Lampard or Gerrard to play Scholes where he could have dictated play. Lampard and Gerrard should have been competing for one spot not two.

Spot on there. I always likened that dilemma to having two excellent goalkeepers. A manager would pick one and go with it. No England manager ever did. 

[Husky]

14 hours ago, Raya4espania said:

IMO scholes got plenty of chances for england, in his preferred role too, but never looked that good in international football, esp against the better teams.

He was always knackered when the mercury hit 18C+

[roverandout]

On 25/05/2018 at 23:45, joey_big_nose said:

Spain and Belgium both have vastly superior first XIs compared to England.

Argentina's defence is not that great, but is it really any worse than ours? 

One thing I will agree on is that with both the Dutch and the Italians out it is a bit easier than previously. 

But still we're massive outsiders. 

Spain are not the same team they were 5 years ago...i would say quarter finals at best for them

[roverandout]

On 26/05/2018 at 08:03, Raya4espania said:

IMO scholes got plenty of chances for england, in his preferred role too, but never looked that good in international football, esp against the better teams.

If you say so...you obviously never saw him play for england

[Atko's Engine]

I'm hoping this England team, with its youth, inexperience & low expectation , can be a bit like Rovers in 92 - 95, in the way it was a team that often proved greater than the sum of its parts.  It had players that weren't - in the main - superstars but knew their role & those of their team mates, and worked to tried & tested methods. I suppose that's easier to drill into players at club level day in day out than it is into an international squad that is full of over hyped egos across a few weeks, but I think Southgate could be the manager who is brave enough to make tough decisions about individuals - similar to choosing Gerrard over Lampard or vice versa - for the sake of team unity. 

[Husky]

I'm upping my expectations for the WC:

 

[RV Blue]

14 hours ago, roverandout said:

Spain are not the same team they were 5 years ago...i would say quarter finals at best for them

Goalkeepers: David De Gea (Manchester United), Pepe Reina (Napoli), Kepa (Athletic Bilbao)

Defenders: Dani Carvajal, Sergio Ramos, Nacho (all Real Madrid), Jordi Alba, Gerard Pique (both Barcelona), Nacho Monreal (Arsenal), Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea), Odriozola (Real Sociedad)

Midfield: Sergio Busquets, Andres Iniesta(both Barcelona) Saúl, Koke (both Atletico), Thiago (Bayern) David Silva (Manchester City),
Isco, Marco Asensio, Lucas Vázquez (all Real Madrid)

Forward: Iago Aspas (Celta), Rodrigo (Valencia), Diego Costa (Atletico)

Quarter finals at best? Are you having a laugh?

[speeeeeeedie]

Spain have the talent to win it. They are solid from back to front. However, if Costa gets a strop on or injures himself (he's injury prone so a distinct possibility) they are light up front. They aren't the quickest at the back either. Pique and Ramos are still good but are past their peak. 

I'm all hope for England. Game 1 is 3 weeks today. 

[RV Blue]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

On paper, they are top 4 in my view, but the tournaments can produce all sorts of surprises. Remember France in 2002? That was just after they'd won two major tournaments on the trot! It was also the same tournament that Italy got knocked out of the quarters by South Korea. If Russia end up against Spain in the last 16, who knows? I wouldn't bank against a Russian giant-killing, and Uruguay (assuming they progress) are hardly easy pickings, either.

This is why I love the World Cups. I love it when England progress, but the rest of the tournament is still excellent, especially when a minnow does a giant-killing or two. Except Iceland. ?

Obviously there is a chance that they will go out before the quarters but to say that the best possible round they will reach is the quarter finals is laughable, especially with that squad. I dread to think where he reckons England will finish ‘at best’. There’s a strong debate about whether any of our players would get in their XI. Walker and Kane being the only two possibilities

[roverandout]

4 hours ago, RV Blue said:

Obviously there is a chance that they will go out before the quarters but to say that the best possible round they will reach is the quarter finals is laughable, especially with that squad. I dread to think where he reckons England will finish ‘at best’. There’s a strong debate about whether any of our players would get in their XI. Walker and Kane being the only two possibilities

Our full backs would get in their starting eleven as would kane...spain are light on talent compared to 5 or 6 years ago...i will have u a bet they go out on at the quarter final stage

[RV Blue]

10 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Our full backs would get in their starting eleven as would kane...spain are light on talent compared to 5 or 6 years ago...i will have u a bet they go out on at the quarter final stage

Rose doesn’t get in over Alba. Walker I’ll give you because I think Carvajal is out. Costa or Kane is very debatable.

Edited May 28, 2018 by RV Blue

[roverandout]

3 hours ago, RV Blue said:

Rose doesn’t get in over Alba. Walker I’ll give you because I think Carvajal is out. Costa or Kane is very debatable.

Walker would still get in over carvajal..kane is a far better foward than costa as well...spain fowards are their weak link..no torres..no villa.

[Husky]

Is anyone concerned about the goalkeeping position.

Looking back England have suffered with some really bad goalkeeping in major international finals competitions in the recent past.

 

I don't know, but this kind of thing doesn't seem to happen regularly to 'other' *top teams when it comes down to the crunch.

 

*Disclaimer - I do realise that England are no longer considered a 'top team'.

[Stuart]

You can’t put Seaman in the same bracket as Hart and Green!

[speeeeeeedie]

I see that the British tabloids are sticking to tradition. Even before a ball is kicked they are doing their level best to create disharmony and rile up the public against the England team.

The latest evidence is the front page story in the Sun and subsequent overblown fake outrage at Raheem Sterling's tattoo of a gun on his leg. They had some halfwit demand England kick him out of the squad.

I don't know why they do it, but they do.

 

 

[Mike E]

14 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I see that the British tabloids are sticking to tradition. Even before a ball is kicked they are doing their level best to create disharmony and rile up the public against the England team.

The latest evidence is the front page story in the Sun and subsequent overblown fake outrage at Raheem Sterling's tattoo of a gun on his leg. They had some halfwit demand England kick him out of the squad.

I don't know why they do it, but they do.

 

 

When you read his reasoning, it just makes the Scum look even more stupid.

[Mattyblue]

Seaman was probably past his best by 2002. However, in the 90s he was one of the best around.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Audax]

I usually like Spain but I'm seriously disappointed in Ramos. He's one player, their captain I believe.  But I've thought for months, the 2 favourites to win the WC are 1. Germany followed by 2. Spain.

Italy, USA, Netherlands, all not going....

Dark horses tend to disappoint, maybe Colombia has an outside chance to win but those things usually don't come through.

Iceland surviving a group with Argentina, Croatia and Nigeria? You wouldn't think so.... but.

Also, I hate seeing Portugal and Spain paired up again. Portugal won the Euro but I think they were a disappointment in the last world cup, didn't even advance out of their group.

England should advance in a group with Belgium, Panama and Tunisia.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Audax

[Oldgregg86]

Portugal were a dissapointment in the euros and they won it. Awful to watch