v Rotherham United (a) - 14/1/23 k/o 12:30pm

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, den said:

Yep. In a word “weak”.

Both physically and mentally. If I was playing and the team I was playing for hadn’t come back from behind for about 12 months I’d be deeply ashamed and embarrassed. When we kicked off again after 45 seconds I’d have got them all together and I’d be saying “ This is the last time we kick off today, this is the day we come from behind or we die trying “

We seemed to shrug our shoulders and just get back to shuffling around.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Lancs Live:

Has it [the scoreline] shocked you?

JDT: "No because we had a couple of those moments during the season so far. We need to be better at that. Of course it's not an excuse but we have a really young squad, you could see how young the team at the end was. it's something we need to learn.

It's not an excuse"

The truth: we started with just 3 players who could be labelled young and inexperienced. None in defence.

We finished with 6 due to one injury and subs JDT made after going 0-2 down.

JDT has loaded the midfield with the young and inexperienced. He is the one who has made Morton the midfield fulcrum.

How can they have the brass cheek too claim there is a long term project that is built around someone else's player who will be off, and TTFFT, in just a few months time.

If Morton was a product of our academy he would struggle to make the bench and probably in L1 on loan.

They are not building any project.

It is a con by grifters.

Yesterday was the first time I have ever, in 60+ years, left a Rovers match early. O k it was only by switching channel but I was glad to get away from that shitfest and would have been down the public there in person.

12 years and counting of being fooled has taken its toll. Whether the current trainee stays as manager or fucks off with Rip Van Winkle is up to them. I couldn't care less.

We heard the same nonsense from Mowbray when he was in charge, about how the team was too young to be consistent or reliable. It was bollocks then, too, demonstrably so.

Looking at yesterday's starting lineup...

Kaminski - 30
JRC -  23
Ayala - 32
Hyam - 27
Pickering - 24
Morton - 20
Garrett - 19
Dack - 29
Hedges - 27
Gallagher - 27
Vale - 21

Literally not a single player under 19. The only players you can call proper youngsters in that team are Morton, Garrett and Vale. Most of those players are what most would consider a prime age of between 23 - 30. Meanwhile Rotherham had a 36 year old in defence. 

The issue is not age but a decline in quality in the key areas of CM and attack. Even if we had our older CM's available, that leaves us with a choice of Buckley, Szmodics and Travis... all of whom are struggling for any kind of form. Meanwhile without BBD our attacking options are Gallagher, Vale, Markanday and Dolan. Between them they've managed 11 goals in all comps so far this season, compared to BBD's 10. 

I still maintain that yesterday was more about mentality than quality. I don't think man-for-man Rotherham have better quality in their starting eleven than ours, we just crumble if we concede the first goal. Going one down in the opening minute is an immediate death blow to this team. However, in a more general sense we are crying out for decent, experienced heads in the centre of the park and up top. That's why Greg's comments about not wanting to buy 27 year olds is concerning to me. Players in that age bracket are precisely what we need, not more young players with fragile mindsets and nobody on the pitch to pull them together when things aren't going well. We need some real leaders and that trait is generally boosted by having experience. It may not fit into the ideal goal of 'the project' but sometimes you need to take a step back before taking more steps forward.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Sick of saying it, but I obviously need to keep saying it as the bloody manager keeps picking him, Gallagher is one of the worst players I've ever seen in a Rovers shirt in over fifty years of watching the Club. A lack of technical ability you can maybeforgive if a player puts a shift in but this guy is 6 ft 5 and doesn't even put himself about. Unforgiveable.

Also losing faith in JDT, any manager worth his salt would have sussed Gallagher out within 5 minutes of walking through the door, got his wages off the wage bill and traded him for a viable option up front.

We've got rid of Mowbray (thankfully) but other than that what has changed? We're still watching some of the same substandard players and are foolishly relying on a shit loanee from Liverpool to run the midfield. For better or worse, I'd rather see Adam Wharton in there gaining vital experience, if we don't go up, what use is it to us when Morton returns to Liverpool.

And what the hell is Broughton doing? Half way through the month and barely a sniff of a player. Why would we need another centre half anyway? S Wharton and Ash Phillips can barely get any game time as it is. We need one if not two strikers who know where the back of the net is and someone to add a bit of steel to the midfield.

I used to hang my hat on Mowbray leaving but that's been and gone and nothing else really appears to have changed - except we appear to have brought in another chancer (Broughton) who is wittering on about "projects" several years down the line. I'm amazed anyone is taken in by this sort of talk after being hoodwinked with it by Mowbray for four years. All that is required is to win as many football matches as possible as soon as possible in a genuine attempt to gain promotion as soon as possible. End of. No more nebulous talk of "projects"with a distant completion date in an attempt to excuse poor performance in the present, we've just wasted four years on that 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Mods Please respace. Sorry.

[sharpysharps86]

The 'young team' line has worn thin. The team yesterday was a reasonable mix of experience and youth so to use that as an excuse is total BS.

The reality is, we have a reasonably decent group of players that are not equipped to play the style of football JDT wants. There are very few teams (possibly only 1 in Burnley) in the Championship that can play this way consistently with success. Rovers were a far better side last season playing on the counter and generally having less of the ball, and we even saw it at the start of this season against the likes of Swansea and WBA that when we play on the counter we can be clinical.

The only arguable positive was Dolan and Markanday look like they have good chemistry. If JDT insists on playing possession based football then maybe start with these two who are technically skilled on the ball and can interchange really well, instead of Gallagher who has a horrific first touch and totally out of his depth with this style of football. If anything, Gallagher is the one you bring on when chasing a game and you have to resort to a more direct approach when the possession style isn't working.

[rigger]

41 minutes ago, DE. said:

We heard the same nonsense from Mowbray when he was in charge, about how the team was too young to be consistent or reliable. It was bollocks then, too, demonstrably so.

Looking at yesterday's starting lineup...

Kaminski - 30
JRC -  23
Ayala - 32
Hyam - 27
Pickering - 24
Morton - 20
Garrett - 19
Dack - 29
Hedges - 27
Gallagher - 27
Vale - 21

Literally not a single player under 19. The only players you can call proper youngsters in that team are Morton, Garrett and Vale. Most of those players are what most would consider a prime age of between 23 - 30. Meanwhile Rotherham had a 36 year old in defence. 

The issue is not age but a decline in quality in the key areas of CM and attack. Even if we had our older CM's available, that leaves us with a choice of Buckley, Szmodics and Travis... all of whom are struggling for any kind of form. Meanwhile without BBD our attacking options are Gallagher, Vale, Markanday and Dolan. Between them they've managed 11 goals in all comps so far this season, compared to BBD's 10. 

I still maintain that yesterday was more about mentality than quality. I don't think man-for-man Rotherham have better quality in their starting eleven than ours, we just crumble if we concede the first goal. Going one down in the opening minute is an immediate death blow to this team. However, in a more general sense we are crying out for decent, experienced heads in the centre of the park and up top. That's why Greg's comments about not wanting to buy 27 year olds is concerning to me. Players in that age bracket are precisely what we need, not more young players with fragile mindsets and nobody on the pitch to pull them together when things aren't going well. We need some real leaders and that trait is generally boosted by having experience. It may not fit into the ideal goal of 'the project' but sometimes you need to take a step back before taking more steps forward.

 

Perhaps Greg Broughton's comment about 27 year old players, would have been more acceptable if he had said we cannot afford 27 year old players.

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Good effort. Could definitely have saved your pen and summed it up in less than five words though 😏.

We did discuss on the concourse after the game posting “One Word After Rotherham” 😆

[Herbie6590]

43 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mods Please respace. Sorry.

🤦‍♂️😆

[Herbie6590]

 

[roversfan99]

50 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sick of saying it, but I obviously need to keep saying it as the bloody manager keeps picking him, Gallagher is one of the worst players I've ever seen in a Rovers shirt in over fifty years of watching the Club. A lack of technical ability you can maybeforgive if a player puts a shift in but this guy is 6 ft 5 and doesn't even put himself about. Unforgiveable.

Also losing faith in JDT, any manager worth his salt would have sussed Gallagher out within 5 minutes of walking through the door, got his wages off the wage bill and traded him for a viable option up front.

We've got rid of Mowbray (thankfully) but other than that what has changed? We're still watching some of the same substandard players and are foolishly relying on a shit loanee from Liverpool to run the midfield. For better or worse, I'd rather see Adam Wharton in there gaining vital experience, if we don't go up, what use is it to us when Morton returns to Liverpool.

And what the hell is Broughton doing? Half way through the month and barely a sniff of a player. Why would we need another centre half anyway? S Wharton and Ash Phillips can barely get any game time as it is. We need one if not two strikers who know where the back of the net is and someone to add a bit of steel to the midfield.

I used to hang my hat on Mowbray leaving but that's been and gone and nothing else really appears to have changed - except we appear to have brought in another chancer (Broughton) who is wittering on about "projects" several years down the line. I'm amazed anyone is taken in by this sort of talk after being hoodwinked with it by Mowbray for four years. All that is required is to win as many football matches as possible as soon as possible in a genuine attempt to gain promotion as soon as possible. End of. No more nebulous talk of "projects"with a distant completion date in an attempt to excuse poor performance in the present, we've just wasted four years on that 

 

It is all underpinned by the same problem, Venkys are the common denominator behind a club not geared or seemingly aiming to get promoted.

We seem to be just fishing in the loan market, a second successive winter window where we lie in a high position and the owners don't seem arsed.

[chaddyrovers]

23 hours ago, Ossydave said:

You have to be trolling, no other explanation 

my question was fair and simple. if you don't want to answer then fair enough

23 hours ago, roverandout said:

Oh ffs. League position league position.  We won't be third after today 

league position is what matters and winning enough games whoever they are against. 

23 hours ago, goozburger said:

He talks about passion and intensity. Have we seen any of that at any point in the last six months?

yes at times we have and other times not enough

[chaddyrovers]

23 hours ago, Ossydave said:

It's not just losing games of football, we're not suffering narrow, unlucky defeats. We've now been obliterated this season by Burnley, Preston, Sheff Utd, Reading and now Rotherham, read that back again and tell me you're happy. I dare say we'll get hammered many more times yet and one will 100% be at Ewood against our closest rivals. It will be hell.

I keep saying this, I can take losing games of football. Even if we'd lost today to a last minute Rotherham goal I'd have been disappointed, but not feeling utter rage towards the manager and the gutless team that I am now.

I can't take much more and I'm amazed some people are still on board with this 'project'.

Who can be happy with any defeat but we are in the early stages of this project and whilst defeats do hurt me I don't overreacted whether we win, lose or draw. Nor do I get angry or utter rage over a game of football. 

23 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

 

They had an aging centre back playing at centre back, surely you keep trying to turn him? No, back to slow, boring football that seemingly only @chaddyrovers seems to approve of. It never works, we can't do it.

That is where you wrong here roversfan99, I like us playing short passing game when we play with quick tempo its works good and we look good playing. When we slow it down far too much we look poor doing it. But there is nothing wrong with long passes or clearly your lines. That down to the players being able to make a decision on the pitch what pass is right at the time

Yes we did in the first half and Gallagher got one and one with the keeper. Then the rest was embarrassing from Gallagher. 

23 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The Venkys way having young lads like Vale and Garrett regularly featuring because of an underfunded squad.

 

playing Vale and Garrett is least of our problems. Played ok yesterday but it was worry the way Kaminski, Ayala, Hyam and Gallagher played yesterday. Kaminski made 2 mistakes yesterday which is unlike him. 

[Mattyblue]

So it was the owners all along then, Rev?

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who can be happy with any defeat but we are in the early stages of this project and whilst defeats do hurt me I don't overreacted whether we win, lose or draw. Nor do I get angry or utter rage over a game of football. 

That is where you wrong here roversfan99, I like us playing short passing game when we play with quick tempo its works good and we look good playing. When we slow it down far too much we look poor doing it. But there is nothing wrong with long passes or clearly your lines. That down to the players being able to make a decision on the pitch what pass is right at the time

Yes we did in the first half and Gallagher got one and one with the keeper. Then the rest was embarrassing from Gallagher. 

playing Vale and Garrett is least of our problems. Played ok yesterday but it was worry the way Kaminski, Ayala, Hyam and Gallagher played yesterday. Kaminski made 2 mistakes yesterday which is unlike him. 

Are you genuinely trying to defend the tactical approach that led to an absolute pasting by Rotherham?!

We never play with a quick tempo, it is always slow and it seldom leads to positive results, many of our wins have been when the other team has dominated the ball.

Stop trying to deflect blame away from the manager, the team were clearly instructed to play out from the back hence why we had nearly 80% possession. As ever, when we win its down to the manager, when we lose the players are at fault.

Gallagher is poor, you have repeatedly made out over the last couple of years that he just needs to play as a number 9 and he would score loads of goals. Mind you, you still were unsure the other day whether we should get some back up for him, rather than an improvement!

Vale and Garrett don't get close to any other starting 11 in the top half. Get a striker and a central midfielder and let them go and play 20 games in League 1.

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

playing Vale and Garrett is least of our problems. 

The fact so many raw academy lads are starting games very much is a big problem.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The fact so many raw academy lads are starting games very much is a big problem.

In key positions.

[roversfan99]

Regardless of if they are ready too. Vale probably will never make it at Championship level.

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Are you genuinely trying to defend the tactical approach that led to an absolute pasting by Rotherham?!

We never play with a quick tempo, it is always slow and it seldom leads to positive results, many of our wins have been when the other team has dominated the ball.

Where did I defend anything. I said we were poor. what more needs saying but I don't OTT about it. 

when we played with a quick tempo during games we looks miles better. We don't play like for 90 mins cos no team can't. If you disgaree fine cos I not going to massive argument about it with time after time, game after game. 

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Stop trying to deflect blame away from the manager, the team were clearly instructed to play out from the back hence why we had nearly 80% possession. As ever, when we win its down to the manager, when we lose the players are at fault.

We win as a team and lose as a team. The player are on the field and they have to make decisions on the game situation. 

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher is poor, you have repeatedly made out over the last couple of years that he just needs to play as a number 9 and he would score loads of goals. Mind you, you still were unsure the other day whether we should get some back up for him, rather than an improvement!

Gallagher didn't look fit yesterday and was awful tbh. He played wide left instead and looks very ineffective as I ever know. 

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Vale and Garrett don't get close to any other starting 11 in the top half. Get a striker and a central midfielder and let them go and play 20 games in League 1.

No play them here and develop here. They weren't the problem and at least Vale makes some decent runs down the channels and drop deep when he did. Garrett made tackles and was decent. They were bigger problems then those two yesterday

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Where did I defend anything. I said we were poor. what more needs saying but I don't OTT about it. 

when we played with a quick tempo during games we looks miles better. We don't play like for 90 mins cos no team can't. If you disgaree fine cos I not going to massive argument about it with time after time, game after game. 

We win as a team and lose as a team. The player are on the field and they have to make decisions on the game situation. 

Gallagher didn't look fit yesterday and was awful tbh. He played wide left instead and looks very ineffective as I ever know. 

No play them here and develop here. They weren't the problem and at least Vale makes some decent runs down the channels and drop deep when he did. Garrett made tackles and was decent. They were bigger problems then those two yesterday

The main problem was the stupid tactics employed by the manager.

When have we won games convincingly this season or even at all by playing it out from the back? Rarely at best.

Our good runs of form in the last 2 and a half years under either manager have been built on organisation and posing a threat on the counter attack. Trying to pass it out with incapable players has led to boring, slow and ineffective shite as we saw again yesterday.

Edited January 15, 2023 by roversfan99

[RVRVRS]

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Regardless of if they are ready too. Vale probably will never make it at Championship level.

He is league two level. He just doesn’t have that footballing brain. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, RVRVRS said:

He is league two level. He just doesn’t have that footballing brain. 

Struggled at Conference level last season.

[RVRVRS]

The main issue with this team is Ayala. He holds in to the ball far to long and he’s passing choices are awful, midfield look for the east pass back and I just don’t get it. We are masters of our own downfall, this persistence to play it out from the back is mind boggling. 
 

jake Garrett scares me to death, he’s a walking red card and don’t get me started on Gallagher, for someone so tall he is shocking in the air, and so re-active. He lacks any footballing intellect. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just thinking about the mentality factor and the giving up at one down.

Right lads...

The score doesn't matter. It's a 3 year project and we don't expect (want) promotion this season or next. 

Tyler is playing because we promised Liverpool he would.

Adam isn't playing because he wants to play.

Brad is playing because Sammie is injured.

The rest of you are playing so we can increase your value and sell you on before the end of the project. Think of the wages lads.

Highly motivational dressing room.

 

Note to self.

The club thinks we are stupid and don't know, that the 3 year project then restarts again with a new coach, new set of (too) young boys, less money and a new 3 year plan.

It is they who are stupid for not knowing that we know.

Edited January 15, 2023 by OldEwoodBlue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, RVRVRS said:

The main issue with this team is Ayala. He holds in to the ball far to long and he’s passing choices are awful, midfield look for the east pass back and I just don’t get it. We are masters of our own downfall, this persistence to play it out from the back is mind boggling. 
 

jake Garrett scares me to death, he’s a walking red card and don’t get me started on Gallagher, for someone so tall he is shocking in the air, and so re-active. He lacks any footballing intellect. 

I’ve backed Gallagher to a certain extent in the past but yesterday was beyond belief. The way he stood and watched cross field balls aimed in his direction just go past him and out of play was unbelievable for a pro. The ball was past him before he realised he needed to get on his bike.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 hours ago, den9112 said:

The club had him watched a couple of times when he was at Rochdale ,this i know for a fact ..

 

I remember watching him for Rochdale against Newcastle in the FA Cup. He had a pretty good game but with about five minutes left he missed a chance I could have put away in my carpet slippers. Right in front of goal, screwed it wide. It was 2-2 at the time. My mate reckoned he did it on purpose because they wanted a draw and an away game ! I thought he scuffed it, then he bangs that one in yesterday.

That lad Sanchez was in goal for Rochdale on loan from Brighton. He’s in the Spain squad now. You could tell he had a big future in the game. And we got Walton ! 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces