Premier League 23-24

[arbitro]

9 hours ago, DE. said:

I can understand some VAR calls being controversial - even with the benefit of ten different replays from ten different angles, some decisions are still going to be contentious. Sometimes it's really difficult to make a judgement, VAR as a system helps but there's still an element of human consideration involved. That's quite okay.

Wolves non-penalty is truly baffling though. I can't think of a single reason not to give it. You only needed one replay to see it was obviously a foul, and would have instantly been given anywhere else on the pitch. I'm generally not one for conspiracies but it's either incompetency on a staggering scale from numerous people who should know better, or something weird was going on.

I'm as sure as sure can be it's just incompetence.

[DE.]

4 hours ago, CheshireRover said:

The only people I see actively wanting him back are from 3rd world back waters with next to no female rights laws. So I agree with you, I also cannot fathom how 3 men raised with western values, including ETH from one of the most liberal nations in the world, can basically say ‘yes that’s okay’. ETH does have previous, given his defence of Overmars being a pest & Quincy Promes stabbing someone.

Western values promote money above basically everything else, the core of capitalism, so that's pretty much your answer. He's being paid enough to forget his morals.

Edited August 17, 2023 by DE.

[speeeeeeedie]

9 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

Judging by their latest statement it appears United are set to reinstate Mason Greenwood into their squad.

I'm stunned because its just plain wrong. It's an endorsement of domestic violence. Violence towards women, and rape. 

Purely from a PR perspective I can't believe United are contemplating this. The evidence in the public domain is clear as day. It's not just that they will have Greenwood playing for them, it's the fact the club have endorsed it. As a fan, how do you continue to support that? I can also see a lot of sponsors cutting ties with the club. I'm not sure United have fully understood the shit storm which is about to come their way.

Note for anyone who thinks Greenwood has been found not guilty. That's not true. The victim has withdrawn the complaint so the charges were dropped. Something which is very common in domestic violence cases.

One final point. There have been many reasons to say this over the years. But after this. Fuck Man United!

Feel free to remove if necessary mods, as I recognise its a sensitive topic.

 

As I posted the other day - if Ten Hag values Greenwood's talent he'll pick him. I also said that Greenwood is a free man, but how he got there is up for questioning. 

A good few years ago Viz had an "are you a premiership footballer?" quiz. One question was along the lines of; you committed a crime that shocked the nation. How do you respond?

• Boast of your charity work
• Give a presser offering an enthusiastic apology
• Wrong foot the keeper and slip one in the bottom corner

Nothing has changed. 

 

[Dreams of 1995]

Harriet Robson and Mason Greenwood have not long had a child together. She announced this by posting a photo on instagram of all 3 holding hands

Harriet was the victim in all of this. She has decided that Mason doesn't deserve charges brought against him. Now, we can all question why, but in the eyes of the law, and we must trust the justice system, he is a free man and is entitled to earn his money

It also happens that he is a supremely talented athlete. In this case I don't get the outrage. If Harriet Robson sees fit to continue her life with him then who are we to pass judgement?

Lee Hughes played football after being released from jail for killing somebody

Throughout the history of the PL there's been a string of sexual assault allegations. Bradley Dack had one of his own.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dreams of 1995

[Upside Down]

So basically, it's not been a problem before, why are we so fussed now?

Not sure I can say what I think of that logic without getting banned again.

Hopefully someone breaks his legs.

[CheshireRover]

19 hours ago, DE. said:

Western values promote money above basically everything else, the core of capitalism, so that's pretty much your answer. He's being paid enough to forget his morals.

A very good point, sadly.

[K-Hod]

Having heard the wording from Man United, I think they’re laying the groundwork for his return.

He is innocent in the eyes of the law, that’s true. He’s also had a child with the victim, that’s true as well.

But, I’m not okay with that voice recording or the photos of what he did to the victim.

For me though, it’s excusing domestic violence and violence against women because someone is talented at football and that doesn’t sit right with me. It’s alienating lots of United fans and the women’s team too, all for the sake of money and glory. It’s a real low point for football, I think.

 

[Displaced Rover]

I can't understand how anyone could defend the idea of him coming back. Just need to listen to the audio once, imagine that was one of your female relatives being treated like that. It's disgusting, regardless of him not being prosecuted. Genuinely abhorrent.

If he played for Rovers and management wanted to bring him back I'd be done with the club. Fair play to the United fans that will take that stance.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Man Utds sponsors will no doubt have been consulted before any decision is made. 

This will be about money and nothing else. 

[smiller14]

22 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Harriet Robson and Mason Greenwood have not long had a child together. She announced this by posting a photo on instagram of all 3 holding hands

Harriet was the victim in all of this. She has decided that Mason doesn't deserve charges brought against him. Now, we can all question why, but in the eyes of the law, and we must trust the justice system, he is a free man and is entitled to earn his money

It also happens that he is a supremely talented athlete. In this case I don't get the outrage. If Harriet Robson sees fit to continue her life with him then who are we to pass judgement?

Lee Hughes played football after being released from jail for killing somebody

Throughout the history of the PL there's been a string of sexual assault allegations. Bradley Dack had one of his own.

Legally, he is sadly entitled to come back and is entitled to earn his money.

Morally, I would argue that there is no place for him in football and I certainly wouldn't want him wearing our colours.

I am sadly not a supremely talented athlete, but I like to think I'd be jobless if my boss found photo/video evidence of my partner battered and bruised, combined with some very difficult to hear voice recordings of him being an abusive wanker (whilst also demonstrating a total lack of respect for consent).

United have clearly made their mind up and are prepping his return, which I find to be a great shame and a stain on their name. 

As an aside, a lot of the nobheads on Twitter (usually from abroad) keep trying to peddle the suggestion the videos might be a forgery - of course that isn't true, as if there was any evidence of forgery or inaccuracy he would have been back long ago. It's almost indisputable the evidence is very, very real (and there is no reason not to believe the victim), and there does not appear to be any hint of remorse.

 

[smiller14]

7 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Having heard the wording from Man United, I think they’re laying the groundwork for his return.

He is innocent in the eyes of the law, that’s true. He’s also had a child with the victim, that’s true as well.

But, I’m not okay with that voice recording or the photos of what he did to the victim.

For me though, it’s excusing domestic violence and violence against women because someone is talented at football and that doesn’t sit right with me. It’s alienating lots of United fans and the women’s team too, all for the sake of money and glory. It’s a real low point for football, I think.

 

100%.

Their statement hinted at a duty of care as an 'employee' - I'd be absolutely shocked if they showed the same leniency towards someone working in the club shop if the same evidence was presented to them.

I'd also wager that if he was a bench warmer he'd be long gone too. 

[RoverDom]

5 hours ago, smiller14 said:

Legally, he is sadly entitled to come back and is entitled to earn his money.

Morally, I would argue that there is no place for him in football and I certainly wouldn't want him wearing our colours.

I am sadly not a supremely talented athlete, but I like to think I'd be jobless if my boss found photo/video evidence of my partner battered and bruised, combined with some very difficult to hear voice recordings of him being an abusive wanker (whilst also demonstrating a total lack of respect for consent).

United have clearly made their mind up and are prepping his return, which I find to be a great shame and a stain on their name. 

As an aside, a lot of the nobheads on Twitter (usually from abroad) keep trying to peddle the suggestion the videos might be a forgery - of course that isn't true, as if there was any evidence of forgery or inaccuracy he would have been back long ago. It's almost indisputable the evidence is very, very real (and there is no reason not to believe the victim), and there does not appear to be any hint of remorse.

 

Nail on head and I'd question anyone who would happily share a dressing room with him. If it was my daughter in those photos the debate would be whether he was allowed to join the wheelchair basket ball team. This sends a horrible message to younger kids that you can treat women however you want and still earn millions 

[Mike E]

Legally, he is allowed to play football for Man Utd.

Entirely coincidentally, I think knee-high, studs-up, two-footed tackles will be in fashion among away teams at Old Trafford.

[RevidgeBlue]

On 17/08/2023 at 08:08, arbitro said:

I'm as sure as sure can be it's just incompetence.

So out of interest, going back to Gerald Ashby sending off Henning Berg and awarding Man Ure a penalty for a perfect tackle, do you think that was "just incompetence" as well?

Because I sure as hell don't!

[Lancs Rover]

On 17/08/2023 at 13:08, DE. said:

Western values promote money above basically everything else, the core of capitalism, so that's pretty much your answer. He's being paid enough to forget his morals.

As sweeping statements go, that's pretty sweeping.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Tabula Rasa

[arbitro]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So out of interest, going back to Gerald Ashby sending off Henning Berg and awarding Man Ure a penalty for a perfect tackle, do you think that was "just incompetence" as well?

Because I sure as hell don't!

It was incompetence. I guess from the tone of your post that you think otherwise but in the 25 years I refereed, around 15 of them in professional football I never, ever suspected that any referee had deliberately cheated. Mistakes are made (I know because I made many) but cheating? Never.

[philipl]

I have heard a river of sewerage about professional football but nothing about bent referees since the 1970s.

English clubs were victims in the European Cup back then.

[Mattyblue]

I certainly don’t think they are ‘bent’, however it seems to me that unconsciously there is an inherent bias towards the elite clubs. Don’t know if it’s the spotlight, the crowd, the managers, social media pressure. But it’s there.

[Upside Down]

There is definitely fixing going on at the highest level. To pretend otherwise is incredibly naive. 

There is also superhuman levels of incompetence that add to the confusion. 

[DE.]

Looking like Man Utd are set to do another u-turn on Greenwood and dump him from their squad. They probably don't have much of a choice considering the backlash, but what a mess. Even with the talent he has, it's difficult to see him playing football in the UK again. With Ched Evans it was a bit different because he was ultimately cleared of charges, regardless of his behaviours. The waters are a lot murkier with Greenwood because there is some pretty horrible stuff out there, but because charges were dropped the situation is left in a weird limbo of what is (seemingly valid) assumed guilt without any official conclusion.  

I'm also not sure how a contract termination would work from a legal perspective with the charges dropped. I suppose the devil will be in the detail in terms of how his contract reads. Assumedly there's something about bringing the organisation into disrepute, but at the same time the club conducted an official investigation and were on the verge of bringing him back into the fold, which may complicate matters. 

[simongarnerisgod]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

There is definitely fixing going on at the highest level. To pretend otherwise is incredibly naive. 

There is also superhuman levels of incompetence that add to the confusion. 

i don`t think it`s bent,just complete incompetence,the standard of officiating has been on a downward spiral for the last 10/15 years,i`de get foreign refs to officiate in england,out lot ar`nt up to it

[wilsdenrover]

12 minutes ago, DE. said:

Looking like Man Utd are set to do another u-turn on Greenwood and dump him from their squad. They probably don't have much of a choice considering the backlash, but what a mess. Even with the talent he has, it's difficult to see him playing football in the UK again. With Ched Evans it was a bit different because he was ultimately cleared of charges, regardless of his behaviours. The waters are a lot murkier with Greenwood because there is some pretty horrible stuff out there, but because charges were dropped the situation is left in a weird limbo of what is (seemingly valid) assumed guilt without any official conclusion.  

I'm also not sure how a contract termination would work from a legal perspective with the charges dropped.  I suppose the devil will be in the detail in terms of how his contract reads. Assumedly there's something about bringing the organisation into disrepute, but at the same time the club conducted an official investigation and were on the verge of bringing him back into the fold, which may complicate matters. 

This is the standard PL contract - just in case you fancied a read…

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/579f1eef2e69cf81541f5565/t/57bc6605e58c62993057c155/1471964677468/standard%2Bpl%2Bcontract.pdf

[simongarnerisgod]

on a brighter note after today,man utd look bloody awful😃

[RoverDom]

Embarrassment of a red card for Liverpool. 

[chaddyrovers]

Ange Postecoglou showing why Spurs appointed him and that there is life after Kane going to Bayern.