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Tony Mowbray Discussion

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20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This European Scouting System has been up and running for around 7 or 8 months with us. So hopefully this summer we will see signings from this European Scouting System. 

Mulgrew only started that game cos Williams and Adarabioyo were injured. 

I noticed last night Mulgrew wasnt on the bench last night but Carter was. Mulgrew days at the club are done. He needs to move on and find a club where he will play regular. 

Think Mulgrew might find getting paid £1million or so next season, for doing nothing but keeping fit, to be quite an attractive proposition. 

Same as Mowbray's contract - IMO, Waggott needs metaphorically shooting for signing them off.

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Just now, Mercer said:

Think Mulgrew might find getting paid £1million or so next season, for doing nothing but keeping fit, to be quite an attractive proposition. 

Same as Mowbray's contract - IMO, Waggott needs metaphorically shooting for signing them off.

We all said it at the time it was barmy it’s cost the club 2 million of debt easy.

 

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

A good article which addresses some big deficiencies in the tactics and selection.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18583417.another-mid-table-finish-rovers-go/

Two stats there that are damning - falling behind for 8 consecutive games and failing to keep a clean sheet for 10 games. They are relegation style stats !

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6 hours ago, Amo said:

The treatment of Harrison Reed pretty much sums up Mowbray's philosophy. A tidy little terrier of a player. Wasn't trusted to play centre-midfield by Mowbray as apparently he needed to learn the game from the mighty Richie Smallwood. Plays centrally at Fulham and they've secured playoff contention. Laughable.

Now, what does that remind you of...

Josh King, Tom Cairney, Jordan Rhodes, Grant Hanley, Scott Dann, Rudy Gestede, Marcus Olsson.

And we got nowhere near the play-offs. How many of our current players will go on to play at a higher level than the manager?

It doesn’t matter how what potential the player have are if you have the wrong manager.

Meanwhile some folk think that staying up is something to brag about!

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6 hours ago, Amo said:

The treatment of Harrison Reed pretty much sums up Mowbray's philosophy. A tidy little terrier of a player. Wasn't trusted to play centre-midfield by Mowbray as apparently he needed to learn the game from the mighty Richie Smallwood. Plays centrally at Fulham and they've secured playoff contention. Laughable.

Amen. Their fans are waxing lyrical about him - say he gets MOM every single week. It’s quite laughable Mowbray’s treatment of him, and as you rightly say, sums up his philosophy.

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think he do a disservice to Mowbray about having no passion about the club and its fans. Mowbray has loads of passion for this football club. You can tell this from his interview over his tenure at the club and from speaking to him. 

 

 

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

This European Scouting System has been up and running for around 7 or 8 months with us. So hopefully this summer we will see signings from this European Scouting System. 

Mulgrew only started that game cos Williams and Adarabioyo were injured. 

I noticed last night Mulgrew wasnt on the bench last night but Carter was. Mulgrew days at the club are done. He needs to move on and find a club where he will play regular. 

You are right that Mowbrays passion is not in question. He definitely has passion and good intentions. He means well and I think unfairly but understandability, people are taking a swipe because he is baffling them with their decisions and we know there is no chance that he will leave.

What he doesnt have is the ability to help us progress. 10 points in 11 games is not progress, im sure youd have to agree? And his tactical decisions lately have led to such a woeful run.

Also, when Lenihan was out, initially, Bennett (with his statistically negative impact on our side) started at right back, also moving our only competent full back inside. We conceded 5 in 2. Then when Lenihan had to miss a game, surely Carter, preferred to Mulgrew as a token gesture in the squad prior would come in? No, Mulgrew did, and we conceded 2.

Why does Mulgrew NEED to move on? Hes ageing, presumably the family's settled, on a decent wage for a year, the only reason you think he needs to leave is because you can only see the issue from Rovers perspective.

Another point, people like to point to past history and indicate that we are one bad appointment away from League 1. There is some right shite in this league and it wasnt just Coyle that got us into that situation, we had suffered an embargo the year before so it was a 2 year process.

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10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does Mulgrew NEED to move on? Hes ageing, presumably the family's settled, on a decent wage for a year, the only reason you think he needs to leave is because you can only see the issue from Rovers perspective.

Cos he might want to play and enjoy his football again. Cant be enjoying Rovers now

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Cos he might want to play and enjoy his football again. Cant be enjoying Rovers now

To quote you about a keeper weve been tenously linked with, "he might just be happy to have a contract with this pandemic." Smallwoods been happy to sit on a contract for a year, if Mulgrew is settled in the area it sounds a bloody good life if you ask me! More fool us for giving him a long contract, same as Smallwood, Williams, Bennett etc.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

To quote you about a keeper weve been tenously linked with, "he might just be happy to have a contract with this pandemic." Smallwoods been happy to sit on a contract for a year, if Mulgrew is settled in the area it sounds a bloody good life if you ask me! More fool us for giving him a long contract, same as Smallwood, Williams, Bennett etc.

See I rather be playing football and enjoying it

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

See I rather be playing football and enjoying it

But then you recommend signing a keeper to sit on our bench...

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22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He means well and I think unfairly but understandability, people are taking a swipe because he is baffling them with their decisions and we know there is no chance that he will leave.

You're giving Iain Dowie a run for his money there fella!

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3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But then you recommend signing a keeper to sit on our bench...

I've talking about me. I rather take less money but enjoying playing then just training and collecting a wage. 

I havent recommended signing anyone tho. 

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16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos he might want to play and enjoy his football again. Cant be enjoying Rovers now

Tell me somebody at Rovers that is enjoying the football at the moment ?  Staff, players, fans - nobody has a smile on their face. At the moment everything about Blackburn Rovers is dull, drab, boring, tedious, uninspiring.

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17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But no one knows these reasons chaddy. And those reasons were before 4 or 5 further games. 

 

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On a more serious note, I think there were a lot of good points made in that article by Sharpe, anxious many of the posts above.

There's no doubt Mowbray has his flaws. Yesterday highlighted several of them,though I think some of the players' performances served to highlight them even more so, as too many were below par.

I think we have progressed under Mowbray. Not as much as I would've liked, but I also think there are some reasons for that which are beyond his control (restrictive club structure & injuries to key personnel being chief amongst them). That's not making excuses it's fact, and could have happened to any other hot seat incumbent.

It's a risk keeping Mowbray as he's certainly not guaranteed to succeed. But I believe he does have passion for this club, he's not just here for his pension, he does want it to succeed and he does have a plan for developing the squad further this summer.  Whether he is allowed to do so in the current climate is uncertain, but if he is forced to look for cheap / free incomings then his record in that dept is not too bad, and certainly better than his big-ticket shopping has been recently. In that context, maybe he's ideally placed to make the most of a sow's ear.

I don't know, keeping him could be a massive mistake, replacing him could be too. There's a lot to be said for stability over risk; fans of the likes of Ipswich & Sunderland will tell you that,but there's also surprise success stories from the past too.

We may never know unless we have a particularly good or bad season. Assuming he stays though, as seems likely, he definitely needs a good summer and a strong first half dozen games next season to maintain the goodwill of those supporting him & recover some credibility amongst the rest.

Ramble over, sorry!

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Thanks for pointing out the specific post. A big help. And a few points to follow:

1. You say we have improved, but our points tally is the same. We may artifically improve it ever so slightly now the season is over competitively for us. Is this ENOUGH progress?

2. Tactically, we seem to be becoming more and more confused? 1 false 9, 2 false 9s, strikers on the wing etc culminating in that shit show yesterday. Does this concern you at all?

3. You mention the European scouting network. Until this shows success im skeptical. But why cant another manager take advantage of this?

4. You mention his signings. Tbe only good ones are the temporary ones. Does it not reflect badly on Mowbray that we are in a worse position going into next season after this seasons business? (lost our goalkeeper and our signings on over 1 contracts have not really done much.) Again, is this progress?

5. Why do you think Mowbray is the man to sign all of these players we need? He didnt last season and you called him out for it when he spent the money on Gallagher over Jansson/Hector/Cooper I think you personally referenced. Now he has no money due to the pandemic. Whats going to change?

6. You say "we are so close" we have never broke into the top 6 and our season is mathematically over with 2 games to spare. Surely since you made this statement that impacts your view?

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Like i said last night the dour tepid scared of the opposition football he's trying to coach into them makes us look worse than we are. We've looked good when we are lively and get in faces and we've looked good on the counter against some sides who come at us.  It just doesn't suit the players or the purpose even Sharpe pointed out we are playing safety first right at the time we should be going for it.

A risk averse manager that would rather lose 1-0 than 4-3, at this stage of the season why the hell does it matter.

I'm sorry to be blunt but it's the work of a wuss, a guy thinking about the plod next season and resting and rotating players now because it'll be a short break instead of chasing what was on offer.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

But then you recommend signing a keeper to sit on our bench...

What else is a 2nd choice goalkeeper going to do?
 

Goalkeepers know their place, and those that play 2nd choice know full well what they’re going to. It’s not a normal position. Senior 2nd choice keepers are a must though, and having one you can depend upon is the difference between winning trophies and not in most cases. 

Edited by Dreams of 1995

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Why can’t the Chief Executive let go a subordinate employee?

Who sacked managers in the past? John Williams or the Walker Trust?

Maybe I answered my own question, who’s subordinate to who in this most odd set-up?

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The more I reflect on this and last season, the more disillusioned with Mowbray I feel.

We have the players and squad.

We don't have the manager.

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17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Thanks for pointing out the specific post. A big help. And a few points to follow:

1. You say we have improved, but our points tally is the same. We may artifically improve it ever so slightly now the season is over competitively for us. Is this ENOUGH progress?

2. Tactically, we seem to be becoming more and more confused? 1 false 9, 2 false 9s, strikers on the wing etc culminating in that shit show yesterday. Does this concern you at all?

3. You mention the European scouting network. Until this shows success im skeptical. But why cant another manager take advantage of this?

4. You mention his signings. Tbe only good ones are the temporary ones. Does it not reflect badly on Mowbray that we are in a worse position going into next season after this seasons business? (lost our goalkeeper and our signings on over 1 contracts have not really done much.) Again, is this progress?

5. Why do you think Mowbray is the man to sign all of these players we need? He didnt last season and you called him out for it when he spent the money on Gallagher over Jansson/Hector/Cooper I think you personally referenced. Now he has no money due to the pandemic. Whats going to change?

6. You say "we are so close" we have never broke into the top 6 and our season is mathematically over with 2 games to spare. Surely since you made this statement that impacts your view?

1. We have improved in my opinion. Plus we have been without Dack for half a season and still reach the same points now with 2 games to go. Put Dack in this team we get top 6 In my opinion. If you took Grabban out of that Forest team they wouldn't be top 6 or WBA if they didn't have Pereira, or Fulham with Mitrovic.   Its enough for me. Might be different for other posters. 

2. The 1st half yesterday were awful. Too many long balls, no movement or quick tempo. Second half we were passing tempo wise and passing to feet. Rothwell had an impact. We moved to this boxed midfield with 2 strikers looking for space between their 3 man centre backs. Its didn't work. Am I concern? no

3. Its have taken time, hiring staff and money to bring this European Scouting Network that Mowbray wants. Its yourself who wants a replace Mowbray. So would you replacement want to use a European Scouting Network tho? That's a question for you. With the time and money Rovers have invested in bring this system into place surely this would be one of key questions you would asked of any managerial interview process? 

4. Loan signings are good thing at this level like WBA loan of Pereira or Leeds loan of Ben White. We aren't in a worst position then last summer but the same. Gallagher may come good next season or he may not. We have be over this Raya situation to death since last summer. Do we need to go over this again? 

5. I felt Mowbray should have used the money more better to sign players we need not just on one player. Jansson's agent was in talks with Brentford very quickly after he was told he  could leave Leeds. But we can suggest player names after names but we have no idea of the cost of the overall wages, fees involved and other factors. You mention no money? well we don't know what the owners will do. We will find out in the coming weeks. Mowbray has made a number of good signings over his tenure whether it Armstrong(1.8 million) and Dack(750k) or loan signings like Antonsson, Reed, Adarabioyo or free signings like Smallwood(Did a good job for us in league 1), Downing. Plus bringing through Lewis Travis to now becoming a key player for our club after watching him development from Under 18's football. With Buckley and Rankin Costello coming through and will be good players for this club next season and beyond. Davenport looks a good player from his appearances so far. Hopefully he develops into a good player for us in the future. 

6. Like I said in Point 1 if we had Dack I feel we would top 6 IMO. People will say Injuries happen but other teams had their key player out with Injury would have top 6 probably not. 

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately the goodwill from the League One promotion, coupled with the dumbing down of expectations after a decade of Venky ownership has given him Brian Clough status at the club.

It should be a two-way street. He should be grateful we saved him from the managerial scrapheap after he tanked at Coventry.

Edited by Amo

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15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Why can’t the Chief Executive let go a subordinate employee?

Who sacked managers in the past? John Williams or the Walker Trust?

Maybe I answered my own question, who’s subordinate to who in this most odd set-up?

John Williams had the power from the Walker trust to hire and fire managers. tho didn't the Walker trust force John Williams to sack Paul Ince after the Wigan Game? In fear of going down that season. 

Venky's made those decisions on sacking our manager not the CEO. Don't you remember the Paul Hunt's Letter sent to Mrs D and it recommend sacking the manager?

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Posted (edited)

‘We’d have got top 6 if one of our players wasn’t injured’. Total conjecture that nobody could ever prove.

We weren’t close with Dack, we ain’t close now. There’s a chance we could finish 10 points away. We will only slightly improve on last years middling side’s points return (if we do at all).

Last season’s side wasn’t a promotion team, the points tally says this one isn’t either, and it is sheer delusion to think otherwise.

Edited by Mattyblue

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