[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[adsfortheblues]

Whilst fair you have to say King is more than justifying his existence this season, well at least once every 4 games or so and so far is our player of the season for me, when you take into account his performances once every 4 games.

Thought I would just correct that for you mate.

[Jimmy612]

Honestly, I try to take Rhodes' critics somewhat seriously but when I see stuff like "he can't do the simple things" I wonder what the point is.

Attend many games do you DE?

[DE.]

Attend many games do you DE?

Used to. Difficult now but attend a fair few away games.

Now back to the topic at hand, can you name some of the "simple things" Rhodes cannot do? I assume it'll be the same regurgitated nonsense as "run the channels" "hold up the ball" etc... conveninently forgetting if Rhodes ran channels or held up the ball he'd likely have nobody within sight to pass or cross to

[FGS5635]

Well he's struggling to put 'the simple chances' away in recent games (Grabs tin hat)

[Jimmy612]

Used to. Difficult now but attend a fair few away games.

Now back to the topic at hand, can you name some of the "simple things" Rhodes cannot do? I assume it'll be the same regurgitated nonsense as "run the channels" "hold up the ball" etc... conveninently forgetting if Rhodes ran channels or held up the ball he'd likely have nobody within sight to pass or cross to

Nonsense? You call two of the key elements of a forwards game nonsense? I find that incredible DE.

Fact is, if a striker is on his own up front, he must be able to at least hold the ball well enough to give the midfielders the opportunity to turn and face the oppositions goal. This is basic front man play - it has been happening for a very very long time.

Although you may have the grand image of Roy of the Rovers scoring overheads kicks, this isn't reality. A striker must do the @#/? side of the job too. If he does that and the midfielders aren't available once he has done his part, then that is their fault.

If you think a modern strikers role is to merely tart line and wait for the rest of the team to do all the work then I'm afraid you don't understand the game - particularly as we have a seriously average side, and we cannot afford passengers for three quarters of every match.

[Mr. E]

The fact that Rhodes even bothers to play games for us speaks a lot about his charcter. He will be at a top Premiership team starting Jan.1, and will not look back. The difference is, this time it will be rightfully so. We were a very respectable team when the likes of Friedel, Bentley, Bellamy etc. decided to leave us. Now we are some Indian chicken experiment begging to be put out of its misery.

[FGS5635]

Plenty prem teams sniff at him, but none ever pull the trigger. Strange for someone who scores goals has no weaknesses and is arguably the nicest lad on the planet and still plays for little old us...not for the daft inflated wages, but becasue his character is immense. He even donates his infalted wage to an orphanage you know and helps old ladies cross the road

[Tom]

Thought I would just correct that for you mate.

I disagree and even if true I would still have him down as our player of the season so far

He has off days but even when its not coming off he causes defences problems, even at his most shocking against Carlise he won a penalty (I think) and created a couple of chances

[Jimmy612]

(1) The fact that Rhodes even bothers to play games for us speaks a lot about his character. (2) He will be at a top Premiership team starting Jan. and will not look back.

(3) The difference is, this time it will be rightfully so. We were a very respectable team when the likes of Friedel, Bentley, Bellamy etc. decided to leave us.

(4) Now we are some Indian chicken experiment begging to be put out of its misery.

(1) Sorry, I wasn't aware he was playing out the goodness of his heart. I thought it might have something to do with the 35grand we put in his bank account on a weekly basis.

(2) No he won't, he isn't good enough to play for a top premiership team. He MIGHT get a chance at a lower league side who need goals - but i doubt it.

(3) Those 3 are absolutely streets ahead of Rhodes as footballers. Two worked extremely hard and had very successful careers, the other (arguably the most talented) spewed it with a bad attitude.

(4) Correct. Now remind me why we threw 8 million pounds at one striker when quite clearly we couldn't afford neither the fee nor the wages, nor did we have the squad necessary to allow us to push for promotion. Baffling.

[DE.]

Nonsense? You call two of the key elements of a forwards game nonsense? I find that incredible DE.

Fact is, if a striker is on his own up front, he must be able to at least hold the ball well enough to give the midfielders the opportunity to turn and face the oppositions goal. This is basic front man play - it has been happening for a very very long time.

Although you may have the grand image of Roy of the Rovers scoring overheads kicks, this isn't reality. A striker must do the kean side of the job too. If he does that and the midfielders aren't available once he has done his part, then that is their fault.

If you think a modern strikers role is to merely tart line and wait for the rest of the team to do all the work then I'm afraid you don't understand the game - particularly as we have a seriously average side, and we cannot afford passengers for three quarters of every match.

There are a lot of wrong assumptions made against my good self in this post Jimmy, though perhaps partially my own fault for not being clear on what I was defining as “nonsense”. I didn’t mean the values themselves were nonsense – obviously using the channels and holding up the ball are big elements to a complete striker’s game – rather that applying them in isolation to Jordan Rhodes after a match is nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that even if Jordan excelled at both of these things, it wouldn’t dramatically improve our performances. Arguably it would make us worse. In order to utilise such strengths we would need to first alter the way we play. Rovers are far too defensive and positionally lax – particularly in the centre – to allow for a successful return from advanced forward play. If Jordan ran into the channels to link up with King, Cairney or whoever is on the wing, who’s in the box to feed off the cross? 1 goal in 96 Jason Lowe? Similarly, if Jordan’s holding up the ball who is he passing to? Our defence hoofs the ball right past the midfield normally, and the midfield are likely to be closer to the half way line than the opposition penalty area so Rhodes would likely be tackled before anyone got close to him. Even then it would only be the likes of Judge, who will probably shoot wide or lose the ball. Anybody who’s watched us recently will know we are too slow and cumbersome to really use the above skills effectively.

We would need to change the entire way we play and bring in a better quality of player to really benefit from Jordan adding to his all-around game. There’s no doubt that as a striker it will serve him well to improve these areas, but I find it highly unlikely it would have any positive impact on the team at present. I would imagine Bowyer sees it that way too and as a result is happy for Rhodes to play the ‘fox in the box’ role, as anything else would likely be to the detriment of what is a distinctly average and uncreative team. Have you ever considered that the reason Jordan doesn’t hold up play very often or run into the channels regularly is because he’s being instructed not to, as opposed to being unable to do so? The bloke is playing in the second tier of professional football, so I know which one is more likely.

[den]

Bloody hell D.E. That's the first time I've heard that lack of technique is a good thing. Surely you don't believe that rubbish?

[West Yorks Rover]

Well he's struggling to put 'the simple chances' away in recent games (Grabs tin hat)

That's when top strikers usually put in a bit more effort to compensate for the misses, he did'nt appear to do that at Brighton by most accounts.

Someone should show him a few tapes of Suarez, if he misses a couple, he's like a man possessed.

BTW most Hudds fans would have been happy with £2-3m for him.

Leeds at home soon, we'll be able to compare him to Ross McCormack (for effort ) £350,000.

[Jimmy612]

That's when top strikers usually put in a bit more effort to compensate for the misses, he did'nt appear to do that at Brighton by most accounts.

Someone should show him a few tapes of Suarez, if he misses a couple, he's like a man possessed.

BTW most Hudds fans would have been happy with £2-3m for him.

He's as hard working as anyone I've seen. Unbelievable the shift he puts in every single game. He has his problems but when he gets on that pitch he gives 110% every single time.

Great player.

[West Yorks Rover]

He's as hard working as anyone I've seen. Unbelievable the shift he puts in every single game. He has his problems but when he gets on that pitch he gives 110% every single time.

Great player.

That's his tough upbringing for you !

[Jimmy612]

That's his tough upbringing for you !

Do you know I just think he loves to score. Say what you like about his upbringing. He just strikes me as someone who loves to score, loves to win and loves to play football.

[RevidgeBlue]

Groundhog day here, similar to last season. The main problem currently is that in the absence of Evans and with the excellent Cairney inexplicably stuck out wide on the right and marginalised the midfield is neither competitive or creative enough yet the usual suspects are attempting to lay the blame at the feet of the division's top scorer.

[West Yorks Rover]

Groundhog day here, similar to last season. The main problem currently is that in the absence of Evans and with the excellent Cairney inexplicably stuck out wide on the right and marginalised the midfield is neither competitive or creative enough yet the usual suspects are attempting to lay the blame at the feet of the division's top scorer.

2nd top scorer !

Who according to plenty at Brighton, could have tried a bit harder for his massive wages.

Maybe he's just disillusioned with the whole thing like many of us ?

[Speedie Dived]

There are a lot of wrong assumptions made against my good self in this post Jimmy, though perhaps partially my own fault for not being clear on what I was defining as “nonsense”. I didn’t mean the values themselves were nonsense – obviously using the channels and holding up the ball are big elements to a complete striker’s game – rather that applying them in isolation to Jordan Rhodes after a match is nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that even if Jordan excelled at both of these things, it wouldn’t dramatically improve our performances. Arguably it would make us worse. In order to utilise such strengths we would need to first alter the way we play. Rovers are far too defensive and positionally lax – particularly in the centre – to allow for a successful return from advanced forward play. If Jordan ran into the channels to link up with King, Cairney or whoever is on the wing, who’s in the box to feed off the cross? 1 goal in 96 Jason Lowe? Similarly, if Jordan’s holding up the ball who is he passing to? Our defence hoofs the ball right past the midfield normally, and the midfield are likely to be closer to the half way line than the opposition penalty area so Rhodes would likely be tackled before anyone got close to him. Even then it would only be the likes of Judge, who will probably shoot wide or lose the ball. Anybody who’s watched us recently will know we are too slow and cumbersome to really use the above skills effectively.

We would need to change the entire way we play and bring in a better quality of player to really benefit from Jordan adding to his all-around game. There’s no doubt that as a striker it will serve him well to improve these areas, but I find it highly unlikely it would have any positive impact on the team at present. I would imagine Bowyer sees it that way too and as a result is happy for Rhodes to play the ‘fox in the box’ role, as anything else would likely be to the detriment of what is a distinctly average and uncreative team. Have you ever considered that the reason Jordan doesn’t hold up play very often or run into the channels regularly is because he’s being instructed not to, as opposed to being unable to do so? The bloke is playing in the second tier of professional football, so I know which one is more likely.

This is what people are just considering. We have spent £8 million on the final piece of the jigsaw (goalscorer) and we don't have the rest of the jigsaw in place. So it may have been wiser to invest the £8 million throughout the team on 2/3 players.

And you are incorrect in saying Rhodes doesn't run the channels, he would be killed by the crowd if he didn't. It's just he is more often than not too slow to get there. A great finisher but how many players does he improve? Cairney and Evans make players around them better.

[Jimmy612]

Groundhog day here, similar to last season. The main problem currently is that in the absence of Evans and with the excellent Cairney inexplicably stuck out wide on the right and marginalised the midfield is neither competitive or creative enough yet the usual suspects are attempting to lay the blame at the feet of the division's top scorer.

Oh I see you've dived in without reading where we started properly Rev.

What got my back up was the article that claims Jordan Rhodes has been worth every penny, and that just about every Rovers fan would admit that. The fact is that I bloody wouldn't agree with that, and neither would many on here.

http://www.ftbpro.co...&team=Blackburn

The debate was that whilst Rhodes is a very decent finisher (we all know), he also has massive flaws to his game (we all know, many choose to ignore it). My argument always has and always will be that we irrationally spent a huge amount of money last season on PL has-beens looking for a last payout, and more importantly, overpaid massively for a tart-liner (as decent as he is in front of goal).

Given the financial peril we faced, and the complete catastrophe of a squad/management team at that time, my suggestion was that to kean £8m away on a striker incapable of playing as alone striker was a bit fooking stupid. Agreed?

What your problem is Rev, is that you think all of this is placed solely at the feet of JR. He's only partially to blame, but as he cost us a record transfer fee and can do no wrong to those with particularly JR tinted spectacles on, he is bound to be discussed the most. Oh, and he's not scoring - so we're bound to discuss him. Just like we discuss Kean when he drops a bollock.

You can shift the blame around the midfield all you like (I know that much of your vitriol will be aimed at Lowe), but until I see Rhodes start to apply himself properly, he will receive as much grief from me as the rest of them do.

Disclaimer: No one here has claimed Rhodes is a bad player or the reason we are not going to go up - merely I am stating that improvements are possible from a player who cost us £8m and hasn't scored in open play since about mid-september.

[DE.]

Bloody hell D.E. That's the first time I've heard that lack of technique is a good thing. Surely you don't believe that rubbish?

That's not what I said den, and you know it. I say quite clearly "There’s no doubt that as a striker it will serve him well to improve these areas, but I find it highly unlikely it would have any positive impact on the team at present."

At no point do I say or imply having a lack of technique is a good thing and I don't know how you got that out of my post. The point is that even if Jordan did run the channels more effectively and hold up the ball often it would only be worth a damn if the guys around him benefited from it. You tell me who he's going to link up with in midfield, or who gets on the end of a cross if Rhodes is out on the wing? Surely it has to be accepted that for any of these things to matter the more fundamental issue of how our team plays has to be addressed.

This is what people are just considering. We have spent £8 million on the final piece of the jigsaw (goalscorer) and we don't have the rest of the jigsaw in place. So it may have been wiser to invest the £8 million throughout the team on 2/3 players.

And you are incorrect in saying Rhodes doesn't run the channels, he would be killed by the crowd if he didn't. It's just he is more often than not too slow to get there. A great finisher but how many players does he improve? Cairney and Evans make players around them better.

I don't disagree we overpaid for Rhodes, but he's here now and blaming him for anything is, at this point, failing to see a much bigger picture imo.

I've seen Jordan in over a dozen games and he runs the channels very infrequently. Normally he's isolated between two CB's midway between the half way line and the opposition area, every so often chasing a ball lumped up by Dann or Hanley. Admittedly most of my experiences are away from home but from what I gather we don't play much differently at Ewood.

As for how many players he improves - those who have an assist to their name thanks to his superb finishing for a start. Plenty of those assists wouldn't exist if we didn't have such an amazing finisher up front. Better to ask who other players in the team improve first.

[Speedie Dived]

That's not what I said den, and you know it. I say quite clearly "There’s no doubt that as a striker it will serve him well to improve these areas, but I find it highly unlikely it would have any positive impact on the team at present."

At no point do I say or imply having a lack of technique is a good thing and I don't know how you got that out of my post. The point is that even if Jordan did run the channels more effectively and hold up the ball often it would only be worth a damn if the guys around him benefited from it. You tell me who he's going to link up with in midfield, or who gets on the end of a cross if Rhodes is out on the wing? Surely it has to be accepted that for any of these things to matter the more fundamental issue of how our team plays has to be addressed.

I don't disagree we overpaid for Rhodes, but he's here now and blaming him for anything is, at this point, failing to see a much bigger picture imo.

I've seen Jordan in over a dozen games and he runs the channels very infrequently. Normally he's isolated between two CB's midway between the half way line and the opposition area, every so often chasing a ball lumped up by Dann or Hanley. Admittedly most of my experiences are away from home but from what I gather we don't play much differently at Ewood.

As for how many players he improves - those who have an assist to their name thanks to his superb finishing for a start. Plenty of those assists wouldn't exist if we didn't have such an amazing finisher up front. Better to ask who other players in the team improve first.

Already answered that for you. Evans and Cairney have improved Lowe and King for starters. You could also say that Spurr has helped King kick on.

The team looks more dangerous on the counter when King plays alongside Rhodes. This in turn that lets the back four have a breather. Sadly it does not happen when Rhodes is up top on his own. Having an assist next to your name is not improving you as a player either.

[glen9mullan]

It amazes me the number of people who wanted £8 million spending elsewhere .

Truth is last summer we had spent nearly £15 mill on players long before Rhodes was even considered .

We have spent this summer and will spend the next two summers suffering because of it .

If it had been no Rhodes , then the money would not have been spent elsewhere .

We would probably be in league 1.

Our eggs were all on Leon Best and he has scored a hatful , :-/

The £8 mill on Rhodes ensured we was not relegated , had we not bought Rhodes last season then Venky's would be £8 million Richer , and those accounts would not be the only thing of worry .

If he continues scoring the goals which he has throughout his career to date , then quite frankly he is priceless to Rovers , as his goals are the difference between us being 12th or bottom 3.

Nothing about Venky's signings in 3 years suggest we would be better off without Rhodes and £8 million to waste on more duck eggs

[DE.]

Already answered that for you. Evans and Cairney have improved Lowe and King for starters. You could also say that Spurr has helped King kick on.

The team looks more dangerous on the counter when King plays alongside Rhodes. This in turn that lets the back four have a breather. Sadly it does not happen when Rhodes is up top on his own. Having an assist next to your name is not improving you as a player either.

How often does King play directly up top with Rhodes? What game(s) are you basing the above counter attacking example on? I've only ever seen King play on the wing, every so often coming inside - his position is still attacking midfield left/right though.

And I'm fairly sure getting assists breeds confidence which makes for a better and more motivated player.

[Parsonblue]

Groundhog day here, similar to last season. The main problem currently is that in the absence of Evans and with the excellent Cairney inexplicably stuck out wide on the right and marginalised the midfield is neither competitive or creative enough yet the usual suspects are attempting to lay the blame at the feet of the division's top scorer.

I take it you thought he played well on Saturday then Rev? Clearly, a unique player who doesn't need to improve the things he is poor at. All players need to work on their weaknesses and Rhodes is no different.

[thenodrog]

Furthermore, this about Kevin Davies is complete garbage.

''He would go on to make a decent career for himself that eventually saw him being able to elbow centre halves Europe-wide via a mildly successful Bolton run and the one England cap he managed to accrue. MISS''

I bloody wish we had the Kevin Davies from his Bolton days right now - He'd have been better off saying, 'When a team finally began playing to Kevin's strengths, he actually forged an excellent Premier League career, playing a pivotal role in Bolton Wanderers 11 year stay'.

If we are to play 4-4-2 as an option then I'd bet Kevin Davies would have been the perfect signing to get the best out of Jordan Rhodes. He'd have relished the work and the physical stuff and laid plenty iof chances on a plate for our favourite tart liner.