[Archived] Bowyer

[Bucksrover]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but another area where I think Bowyer deserves credit is with the central midfield situation. He got a lot of stick, I had my doubts as well, when we didn't get Spearing or Jones. But watching Evans and Cairney play on Saturday I wouldn't swap either of them.

Bit nervous about Watford tomorrow - went to the 4 goal drubbing away last season and it wasn't a nice experience. They have pretty much the same side from what little I know so it will be a good marker to see where we are.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Anyone who thinks we should get rid of bowyer is crazy.

Exec changes are needed, but bowyer is the right man at this time.

If promotion has to be achieved this season due to the financial situation then he clearly isn't.

[jim mk2]

If promotion has to be achieved this season due to the financial situation then he clearly isn't.

Who knows ? There's more than 30 games to go, anything could happen. We could go up, we could go down, we'll probably be in the middle somewhere but we've had 5 changes of manager in the past 12 months - we need stability and the last thing we need right now (unless results really plummet) is another change.

[Parsonblue]

If promotion has to be achieved this season due to the financial situation then he clearly isn't.

I think the financial position - getting rid of high earners and replacing them with free transfers - would suggest that promotion can't be the owners target this season. But, then again, as they are completely divorced from reality they probably think that free transfers will do the job.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Who knows ? There's more than 30 games to go, anything could happen. We could go up, we could go down, we'll probably be in the middle somewhere but we've had 5 changes of manager in the past 12 months - we need stability and the last thing we need right now (unless results really plummet) is another change.

I've seen enough to strongly indicate that promotion isn't on the cards this season which is scaring the hell out of me because of the financial situation the club is in. Stability is nice but what happens if you are stable but going nowhere?

[John]

Because of the parachute payments, and the way they are staggered, the big worry is from next summer - surely something will have to give.

[eire3382]

If promotion has to be achieved this season due to the financial situation then he clearly isn't.

But you assuming that the chicken farmers will make a good appointment. If they did sack GB they would probably replace him with a kit man from a sunday league team.

Personally I think they fell ass first into a decent manager completely by mistake and we should be thankful they did.

[Gally]

I've seen enough to strongly indicate that promotion isn't on the cards this season which is scaring the hell out of me because of the financial situation the club is in. Stability is nice but what happens if you are stable but going nowhere?

I'm not sure we have seen that tbh. I think we've seen enough to show that we could be one of 10-12 teams squabbling to get in the top 6.

[Roverthechimp]

Nope sorry - he is doing a decent job. Promotion would be a plus but the biggest plus for me is that the players coming in are taking first team places on merit not purely on reputation. If Best, Rhodes, Rochina and Dunn all contribute this season then we will probably be around the playoffs with a young team whose high earners will be automatically reduced in the summer (Dunn & Robinson) with a saleable asset in Rhodes.

Sadly we spunked our financial advantage last season on 3 managers, 2 deadwoods and bunch of reserve teamers...

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think the financial position - getting rid of high earners and replacing them with free transfers - would suggest that promotion can't be the owners target this season. But, then again, as they are completely divorced from reality they probably think that free transfers will do the job.

Don't think that how much you pay for a player is a gauge of how good they are - especially post Bosman. Evans at £500k looks a far better buy than Etuhu at £2.5m

[den]

Just come back to this after the weekend. I can only conclude that a lot of posters just jump in half way through the thread.

Thing is, we all know things could be better. We all wish they were better. But do we think they're likely to get better if we change manager? Not really because we don't trust the owners to get anyone better and they'd still have to work with some poor players. Added to which, we've chopped and changed managers and are no better off. If the owners were prepared to sell and we were fortunate enough to get good owners, then we might have a chance of improving. If they put in real money and got a competent person /persons in to run the club. We might have a chance of improving, but none of that is likely to happen and so many of us just feel that with Bowyer at least trying to run the club and the team honestly, this is where in reality we are and tweaking things like changing a manager isn't going to make a big positive impact and could take us further than on the downward slope. I haven't lost hope, but I do feel we need to look at things as they are and not as we'd like them to be

Gumboots - totally failing to see the point. My point is to the fans who continue to argue that " we are where we are", "we're back where we've been for most of the last 50 years" it isn't about whether Bowyer is good enough.

Much like Rhodes, it'll all go quiet now until the next poor result.

You think one result changes anything that's been said so far DE? That's just a dig.

what do some people not learn from history the last thing we need is a change of manager GB is doing a good job and in time will only get better. Now a change in owners that would go down well very well indeed

Again, where do you get the idea from that the debate is about changeing the manager?

Yeah I don't think many are silly enough to call for his sacking, but there are plenty suggesting he should be doing much better - which IMO is very harsh given the resources available to him.

There are some - including me - who think the club can do better.

Look, let's take the idea that we're back to where we were - and somehow we should get used to being nothing other than the club we were back in the 70's or early 80's. Well, in those days the club was doing as much as it could do, in the circumstances that it found itself in. Rovers, under Bill Fox and others were set up as well as they could be. They had football people throughout the club. Fox had contacts throughout the game, they appointed decent managers in the main. However there was only one reason why we struggled - money. In my opinion, rovers throughout those years, could do little more.

Now then, some of our fans nowadays argue, strangely, that we're back there. "Get used to it" "get real" and in some other perverse way, suggest that anyone criticising the way the club has been/is being run are the negative ones! No, the negative ones would be the fans who are happy just to go down to Ewood on match day, have their beers (not that there's anything wrong with that), watch their team play and aren't open to anyone else suggesting that things could be better.

So what could be done better? Well just for starters, off the top of my head, two things are very obvious. Transfer policy - or lack of one - and the use of agents. We get arguments about Bowyers signings. I'm not really bothered about that, but the way the club has gone about it's transfer business has been almost criminal to my mind. We had a huge squad of pretty poor players, that can't be in doubt. We are also losing £2m/month and that can't continue. What we needed to do this summer, was what I guess the vast majority of clubs do. We needed Bowyer to sit down with his chairman and work out a transfer strategy that could improve the squad, while at the same time keep spending to a minimum. What happened? Well it appears that Bowyer - a coach with no record in the transfer market - was given the chance to bring in a whole bunch of player, being totally unanswerable to anyone else, many of whom will no doubt join the hordes of other non players, sitting on the bench, or not. That's something that should never have happened. Looks to me as though there was no planning or strategy there, at all.

The second thing is agents fees. Didn't we spend something like £3m more than anyone else? Don't forget, for all those agents fees, we narrowly avoided relegation to the first division. That £3m could have gone a long way to bringing in some quality, rather than another bunch of freebies who won't improve much at all.

We can do a whole lot better, but this club is still very badly run. If the Raos bring in someone to oversee this whole carry on, then good for them. We are where we are, indeed!

[OJRovers]

If promotion has to be achieved this season due to the financial situation then he clearly isn't.

I agree that an experienced manager is key in this league and wouldn't have wanted Bowyer to replace Kean last year....

BUT we are dealing with idiots here who are incapable of appointing anyone sensible.

In our current position, sacking GB is only going to make it worse.

Would you really sack Bowyer, upset the squad and gamble on Shebby coming up with someone better than Judan Ali?

My view is that we have a good enough squad for the play-offs (any team with a 25/30 goal a year striker has a chance) and GB is doing well so far, he's been unlucky with injuries.

[DE.]

Look, let's take the idea that we're back to where we were - and somehow we should get used to being nothing other than the club we were back in the 70's or early 80's. Well, in those days the club was doing as much as it could do, in the circumstances that it found itself in. Rovers, under Bill Fox and others were set up as well as they could be. They had football people throughout the club. Fox had contacts throughout the game, they appointed decent managers in the main. However there was only one reason why we struggled - money. In my opinion, rovers throughout those years, could do little more.

Now then, some of our fans nowadays argue, strangely, that we're back there. "Get used to it" "get real" and in some other perverse way, suggest that anyone criticising the way the club has been/is being run are the negative ones! No, the negative ones would be the fans who are happy just to go down to Ewood on match day, have their beers (not that there's anything wrong with that), watch their team play and aren't open to anyone else suggesting that things could be better.

So what could be done better? Well just for starters, off the top of my head, two things are very obvious. Transfer policy - or lack of one - and the use of agents. We get arguments about Bowyers signings. I'm not really bothered about that, but the way the club has gone about it's transfer business has been almost criminal to my mind. We had a huge squad of pretty poor players, that can't be in doubt. We are also losing £2m/month and that can't continue. What we needed to do this summer, was what I guess the vast majority of clubs do. We needed Bowyer to sit down with his chairman and work out a transfer strategy that could improve the squad, while at the same time keep spending to a minimum. What happened? Well it appears that Bowyer - a coach with no record in the transfer market - was given the chance to bring in a whole bunch of player, being totally unanswerable to anyone else, many of whom will no doubt join the hordes of other non players, sitting on the bench, or not. That's something that should never have happened. Looks to me as though there was no planning or strategy there, at all.

The second thing is agents fees. Didn't we spend something like £3m more than anyone else? Don't forget, for all those agents fees, we narrowly avoided relegation to the first division. That £3m could have gone a long way to bringing in some quality, rather than another bunch of freebies who won't improve much at all.

We can do a whole lot better, but this club is still very badly run. If the Raos bring in someone to oversee this whole carry on, then good for them. We are where we are, indeed!

Thing is I agree with everything you say here den. My point is not that the club cannot do better - obviously it can. The owners are a joke and as you point out there are numerous things that should and could be done far better.

My argument is based solely on whether Bowyer should be doing better given the resources available to him. My belief is that with all things considered he's actually doing as good as could be expected and anybody disappointed with his performance and thinking he should be removed is not taking into account the current situation the club finds itself in.

Unless Venky's transform into wonderful owners overnight, we're not going to get the things we wish for. We're going to be stuck in this mess until they leave, and having a steady, decent man like Bowyer at the helm during these times is nothing to be disappointed about. I'm grateful we've got him to be honest, as I actually feel like I can trust him to have the club's best interests at heart even in the absence of good owners or any kind of boardroom structure.

With all this in mind expectations of playoffs or beyond are wishful thinking imo. It would be incredible if we managed it but realistically mid-table is our likely destination and as long as Venky's are here I can't imagine Bowyer or any other manager being given the resources or support to achieve much beyond that. There is no evidence to suggest Venky's want to seriously improve the club - if they ever hire a competent board to oversee things for them maybe we can start hoping for better. As long as shelfy remains as our de facto head of state, though, I don't think we can hope for much.

[den]

Den, I don't think most fans would argue against us being able to do better

When I stated that the owners might think that what was happening at the club wasn't good enough - considering how they were "allegedly" covering losses of £2m/month, there were plenty who couldn't understand it. Apparently ambition to be better isn't well tolerated ET. It's seen as being over critical.

IMO, if the owners want to send someone in to oversee the whole set up at the club, from the way the owners themselves have gone about thing so far, whether the board structure is fit for purpose, if the chairman is the best man for the job - and including whether the manager has the ability to use funds wisely and if he's the right man to take us back to the PL. - which "they" think is absolutely essential - and they're prepared to back the right manager, do the right things elsewhere, then good luck to them.

Positive thinking is what's needed😀

[den]

My argument is based solely on whether Bowyer should be doing better given the resources available to him. My belief is that with all things considered he's actually doing as good as could be expected and anybody disappointed with his performance and thinking he should be removed is not taking into account the current situation the club finds itself in.

The financial situation we are/were in didn't call for a mass influx of average players DE. That strategy was apparently down to Bowyer alone. The Raos might think that bringing in, what is it so far - 13 players and he still wants more - should be putting us up around the play off places. If they believe that, - rightly or wrongly-, and are going to ask someone with a lot of experience to make recommendations, including the manager, why would that be wrong?

Trouble is it might be Shebby.😄

[Mike E]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu-dx8PM0b4

[DE.]

The financial situation we are/were in didn't call for a mass influx of average players DE. That strategy was apparently down to Bowyer alone. The Raos might think that bringing in, what is it so far - 13 players and he still wants more - should be putting us up around the play off places. If they believe that, - rightly or wrongly-, and are going to ask someone with a lot of experience to make recommendations, including the manager, why would that be wrong?

Trouble is it might be Shebby.

If Bowyer was left to deal with transfers himself with no guidance or restraint from anybody else then it isn't really his fault to be fair. In saying that we seem to have brought in some good players. Spurr, Kane, Evans and Cairney are all regular first teamers and performing at an acceptable level. There were definitely mistakes made in the transfer market - Marrow and Marshall spring to mind immediately - but this is still ultimately Venky's fault and not Gary's. Also worth noting we don't appear to have much in terms of funding despite our parachute payments, so we were always going to end up with some punts who were going to turn out average.

The problem IMO is not the players we brought in, but failure to move out some of the other dross clogging up the wage bill. Mainly the Portuguese contingent along with the likes of Etuhu.

[Blue n White Rover]

I don't think he's had a bad window at all. Bought some real quality barring Marrow.

Main point is he has addressed out CM issue by bringing in Cairney and Evans. Evans is starting to shine through and looks to be another great buy.

He's also got the best out of King and with him being relatively young, I think Bowyers experience in the reserves has worked in his favour. Fingers crossed his form does continue.

[Rover_Shaun]

I'm not sure we have seen that tbh. I think we've seen enough to show that we could be one of 10-12 teams squabbling to get in the top 6.

Spring may be a disappointing time of year for you then.

[T.J.Newton]

Neil Warnock.

Hahahaha

I didnt know you had a sense of humor.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Hahahaha

I didnt know you had a sense of humor.

Yeah he's only achieved 7 promotions in his career. Sparky what were you thinking suggesting a successful manager!!!

[Gally]

Spring will be a disappointing time of year for you then.

Possibly, but we've played some very good stuff in patches and we've alll seen what a bit of consistency can do in this league. I expect us to be above several of the teams above us come March.

Either way, I don't see how we can bring Bowyer into this. The one thing which is absolutely certain to kill off any chance of promotion is the sort of chopping and changing that we saw last year.

[Blue n White Rover]

Yeah he's only achieved 7 promotions in his career. Sparky what were you thinking suggesting a successful manager!!!

And how many relegations?

[Majiball]

The big question in all of this is what the owners expect. If promotion this year, then we need to step up a gear, if consolidation then we're fine. It's alright saying we should be aiming for this and for that but not one of us knows what the loons expect from it all.

[Rover_Shaun]

I'd say a yearly deficit of £27m can only mean one thing. Promotion or bust.

Just how the club is so badly set up for such a task is pure Venkys