[Archived] Mural Outside Ewood

[Iceman]

Write a brief that doesn't include:

"Venkys"

"Rao family"

"Desai"

"Balaji"

"Blackburn rovers football club"

The Blackburn rovers badge

The Venkys logo

Images of the owners or board of Blackburn rovers.

Cos otherwise it comes down for defamation and the owner of the property is sued. We don't want rovers fans sued.

The problem i see here, is that we are using the image of Jack, to show the short comings of Venkys. Imo, it shouldnt be like that. In any case, the Walkers could come and say well why are we using Jack Walker to prove a point re Venkys. Okay the Walkers sold us up the crapper, but imo, we shouldnt use the image of Uncle Jack.

[Amo]

Write a brief that doesn't include:

"Venkys"

"Rao family"

"Desai"

"Balaji"

"Blackburn rovers football club"

The Blackburn rovers badge

The Venkys logo

Images of the owners or board of Blackburn rovers.

Cos otherwise it comes down for defamation and the owner of the property is sued. We don't want rovers fans sued.

A picture paints a thousand words.

Like I said, have a picture of the Rao family looming over the remnants of a once great club. Everyone will get the message, and any 'defamation' can be covered by an "All persons fictitious disclaimer".

Please, take this advice on board.

[Neal]

In the top corner "The ckub that Jack built..."

In the bottom corner "Destroyed by Venkys"

[ABBEY]

you would ...why post on here when you hate the place?

Not really. A defamatory statement is a defamatory statement wherever it appears it doesn't become more defamatory because it's painted on a wall
What precedents involving mural-based defamation are you basing that statement on?
Really the only way you could defame Rovers through criticising the operation of the institution would be to use a phrase such as "Every BRFC director/official/employee is corrupt/dishonest etc" or to specify that one is and name him without being able to stand it up in court
In the first instance, you don't necessarily have to name anyone to be sued if it can be proved that the nameless are implicated
In a Case involving the daily mirror & the Banbury CID the paper had stated that corruption was rife among detectives as a couple who couldn't be names were undergoing investigation - all perfectly true
The other detectives won damages as they were able to prove that the speculation had caused colleagues, friends, neighbours, public etc to speculate that they might be involved and, by extension, corrupt
I personally think the mural looks a bit daft but to emblazon something like "Blackburn Rovers are being destroyed or are rubbish" in itself hardly constitutes libel or defamation

[J*B]

Not really. A defamatory statement is a defamatory statement wherever it appears it doesn't become more defamatory because it's painted on a wall

What precedents involving mural-based defamation are you basing that statement on?

Really the only way you could defame Rovers through criticising the operation of the institution would be to use a phrase such as "Every BRFC director/official/employee is corrupt/dishonest etc" or to specify that one is and name him without being able to stand it up in court

In the first instance, you don't necessarily have to name anyone to be sued if it can be proved that the nameless are implicated

In a Case involving the daily mirror & the Banbury CID the paper had stated that corruption was rife among detectives as a couple who couldn't be names were undergoing investigation - all perfectly true

The other detectives won damages as they were able to prove that the speculation had caused colleagues, friends, neighbours, public etc to speculate that they might be involved and, by extension, corrupt

I personally think the mural looks a bit daft but to emblazon something like "Blackburn Rovers are being destroyed or are rubbish" in itself hardly constitutes libel or defamation

Thats all well and good if you can afford a lawyer/solicitor to fight it in court. If you can't, money wins.

Again, for clarification - i'm very little to do with this other than I promoted the mural fund. If you want to be in touch with the designer, the artist and the location please get in touch in PMs and i'll put you in touch.

[J*B]

A picture paints a thousand words.

Like I said, have a picture of the Rao family looming over the remnants of a once great club. Everyone will get the message, and any 'defamation' can be covered by an "All persons fictitious disclaimer".

Please, take this advice on board.

Please get in touch on PM. You seem to have a real understanding of it and would be a great asset to the people behind the mural.

[Oldgregg86]

What about as an image a half burned down stadium in flames with a charred rose plus text

[Roverall]

An apocalyptic vision of Ewood with the Raos looking on is a brilliant idea because it would be really eye-catching and perfectly sum up what they have done.

[ABBEY]

.

[1arC]

What about a line showing the results under Venky's and a comment like accident or design?

For example P 210 W 30 D 20 L 160 F 130 A 400

I have made the figures up, but I know they won't read too good. No one can argue against painting this factual information.

[Iceman]

They came, they saw, and they embarrassed us

[tomphil]

They came, they saw, and they embarrassed us

...and themselves and their fellow businessmen and their chickens.

[Rover-the-Top]

What about a line showing the results under Venky's and a comment like accident or design?

For example P 210 W 30 D 20 L 160 F 130 A 400

I have made the figures up, but I know they won't read too good. No one can argue against painting this factual information.

League results: P265 W82 D81 L102

[Amo]

What about a line showing the results under Venky's and a comment like accident or design?

For example P 210 W 30 D 20 L 160 F 130 A 400

I have made the figures up, but I know they won't read too good. No one can argue against painting this factual information.

No offence, but I think we need to keep this punchy and to the point. Statistics can always be manipulated, and this isn't purely about football. We've had bad times in the past but at least the fans were still able to identify with the club.

[tomphil]

Agree with others it's better to keep stats out of it. Those stats are similar probably to any number of struggling clubs and it looks like we are whining just because we aren't winning every week.

We all know that to achieve those rubbish stats it's been very different to other clubs and it must have taken several hundred million quid, god knows how many managers, coaches etc and a huge dose of bullsh%t to arrive at that sorry reading. Others don't though.

[J*B]

If they're charging £1200 to paint a gable end they could maybe afford my lecture/consultancy rates too JB

Hate "the place"?

What's "the place"

I've come on here every day after a match for goodness knows how many years to read Parson's match reports and comments which I greatly enjoy, often agree with and sometimes differ on. It's how grown-up people carry on

The fact that a lot of people post stuff I disagree with doesn't mean other people don't post things I enjoy

Most male adults have found out painfully from experience between the latter teenage years to 25 that you can't actually make someone feel something simply because you want or would like them to feel it

Perhaps Abbey in convincing yourself that "this place" exists as some kind of enclosed community for an exalted couple of like-minded dozen with all other views to be rendered invalid and shouted down, not often very constructively or articulately in your brief posts, your own personal fiefdom for barking out anti-Veny sound bites, that you have lost sight of it as a platform for differing views and, at the end of the day, a few minute's light entertainment from the more urgent matters of the working day

Jim. Firstly, unusual for you to reply on BRFCS, i'm used to token sarcasm on Twitter. A welcome change.

As you lecture in defamation, perhaps you could offer to try and help out for free? Like all the other people mucking in and giving their skills, of which there is over 100 now.

Alternatively, what is your daily rate for defamation advice? Perhaps we could set up another JustGiving: "Please donate to Jim's day rate to ensure Rovers fans aren't sued" has a ring to it. Although it's worth noting you'll be the only Rovers fan actually taking money for their time.

As was mentioned at the Ewood Working Mens Club meeting, if you want to try and help, there is plenty of Rovers fans that can do with it. Only help with the initiatives which you believe in, help with them all - all help is good help.

Alternatively, if you want to keep banging the same drum, keep banging it. We get it. You don't like ABBEY. ABBEY doesn't like you. Lets just fill the forum with backwards and forwards until one of you calls the admin for help.

[broadsword]

"THIS USED TO BE A FOOTBALL CLUB ... VENKY'S OUT"

[rog of the rovers]

"THIS USED TO BE A FOOTBALL CLUB ... VENKY'S OUT"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxNuJy_6yaY

Reminds me of the song written by Barbara Striesand about the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Sung in the link by Frank Sinatra

Hauntingly familiar lyrics.

And the people watched in wonder

How they'd laugh and how they'd cheer!

And there used to be a ballpark right here.

Now the children try to find it,

And they can't believe their eyes

'Cause the old team just isn't playing,

And the new team hardly tries.

And the sky has got so cloudy

When it used to be so clear,

[J*B]

"THIS USED TO BE A FOOTBALL CLUB ... VENKY'S OUT"

I love this.

[cmb211087]

Steady on JB I got a personal message rebuke a few weeks ago from a moderator saying "it is completely unacceptable to reveal a poster's real name if he is posting under a pseudonym."

You'll no doubt be receiving similar, surely the forum couldn't possibly operate under one rule for one and a different one for another could it? Perish the very idea of such a shocking concept!

I have no interest in the mural, other than a mildly amused chuckle at some of the more outlandish suggestions. A portrayal of a few Rovers heroes, Dougie, Ronnie, Big Al et al would be fine with me but other than whether your £20 bet boast that it's all but a fait accompli that it's up by Halloween proves flawed, it looks a bit of a token not-very-artistic and not all that hard-hitting effort to me

I'm therefore unlikely to offer any advice or services, free or paid-for, other than genuinely not really wanting to see anyone get themselves in bother over it. I offered a bit of (free!) advice earlier as one or two seemed over-cautious about what defamation consists of ...that could hardly have been interpreted as negatively disposed towards your efforts

I similarly advised someone well known to you all who was going to publish a "bombshell interview with an ex-Rovers employee" a few weeks ago for the same reasons - there were so many glaring holes and accusations in it that it would have gotten the author in severe hot water had it appeared

I advised the author not to take my opinion solely but to seek a second, legally-qualified (which I'm not, I just know a good deal of the law as related to journalism) one.I can't see how I could have done fairer than that

If Abbey took the trouble to post directly to me, I simply replied. I don't actually dislike anyone, certainly not people I've never met. Well apart from one or two Dingles off Twitter maybe

I'm not sure what you found offensive about my reply to Abbey - he asked "why I came on here if I hate the place" and I explained why I came on and why I found the concept of hating a message board as if it was "a place" strange

Wait. So you take posts off here, post them on your personal twitter account and make sarcastic and sometimes abusive comments on them.

Then when I post one on here showing you abusing me on Twitter, you post as this account, one which we now know is YOU but didn't at the time, giving me grief for doing so, going on about posting "what looks like a personal twitter exchange" when you knew full well what it was, getting my posts removed??

Pot. Kettle. Black....

And now I've had to break my self imposed posting ban.

May as well stay on topic.

What happened to the second mural?

The first seems too...safe?? Like we are celebrating something in a way, be it the Walker era or what not.

[Baz]

If they're charging £1200 to paint a gable end they could maybe afford my lecture/consultancy rates too JB

Hate "the place"?

What's "the place"

I've come on here every day after a match for goodness knows how many years to read Parson's match reports and comments which I greatly enjoy, often agree with and sometimes differ on. It's how grown-up people carry on

The fact that a lot of people post stuff I disagree with doesn't mean other people don't post things I enjoy

Most male adults have found out painfully from experience between the latter teenage years to 25 that you can't actually make someone feel something simply because you want or would like them to feel it

Perhaps Abbey in convincing yourself that "this place" exists as some kind of enclosed community for an exalted couple of like-minded dozen with all other views to be rendered invalid and shouted down, not often very constructively or articulately in your brief posts, your own personal fiefdom for barking out anti-Veny sound bites, that you have lost sight of it as a platform for differing views and, at the end of the day, a few minute's light entertainment from the more urgent matters of the working day

As someone who reads a lot of what you post on Twitter, I often wonder why you are so anti any protesting?

I can understand you may think it will make no difference, but why the vitriol toward those who think it will?

You obviously aren't happy with the way the club is performing on or off the pitch.

[Willie Eckerslike]

I have to side with those who think that the current proposed design isn't really getting the message across.

Yes, it's a great piece of art and it will get most fans blood boiling thinking about Jack looking down on the current situation BUT in my opinion

It isn't punchy

It could be misinterpreted by an outsider as a tribute to Jack rather than an attack on Venkys

If you were going past at anything other than walking pace you wouldn't be able to take it in

As one of those who donated I'm OK for the money to be used for whatever the consensus is on this.

If there isn't currently going to be a vote on alternate designs then perhaps there should be a vote on how many feel that the current proposed design is a winner.

If the majority say yes then get it painted. If not, then we need to wait until an alternative comes up.

If it takes another month then so be it. This is a great opportunity and we shouldn't rush it.

[Gav]

Its dead easy this, ignore the muppets trying to cast doubt, trying to derail the mural, grow a pair of @#/? and lets agree a design and get this done.

Route the paypal through several accounts, its so easy and untraceable unless you're dealing with the FBI and even then they'll struggle to trace it.

Our owners can't even sack inept shelf stacking ****s correctly, does anyone think they'll be able to successfully sue fans?

Lets just agree a design and if anyone's worried about losing jobs, losing careers or losing face, give me a shout and I'll happily front this project and @#/? to the owners.

Get a grip FFS, lets at least unite and get this mural agreed and done.

[J*B]

I have to side with those who think that the current proposed design isn't really getting the message across.

Yes, it's a great piece of art and it will get most fans blood boiling thinking about Jack looking down on the current situation BUT in my opinion

It isn't punchy

It could be misinterpreted by an outsider as a tribute to Jack rather than an attack on Venkys

If you were going past at anything other than walking pace you wouldn't be able to take it in

As one of those who donated I'm OK for the money to be used for whatever the consensus is on this.

If there isn't currently going to be a vote on alternate designs then perhaps there should be a vote on how many feel that the current proposed design is a winner.

If the majority say yes then get it painted. If not, then we need to wait until an alternative comes up.

If it takes another month then so be it. This is a great opportunity and we shouldn't rush it.

As someone that donated you without doubt deserve a big voice in this.

At the last time I checked, to have the mural painted in time for Wolves the artist was only confident in this design. There where others which where rejected (for numerous reasons, both from the legal Guy to the artists knowledge of what is effect) which included: the Rao family behind bars with other villains (e.g. The joker), a just text design and a 'before' and 'now' themed image

The artist is confident the peice he's put together would have the most impact. He's also offered to amend it once Venkys sell, to reflect jack looking down with pride and happiness on a 'happy' Ewood Park - which definately sells it to me.

If there is a real passion from people that have donated to have the painting delayed then definately get yourselves heard. A few people have PMd me asking to be put in contact with the group of fans working on this and other things. If you are interested in this please PM me.

You are, so far, the only person I know that has donated and has recommended we wait, however I'm sure if it's a majority saying this people will postpone it. It's imperative the people that funded it are happy.

It's worth noting that the original idea was to email everyone that donated with a voting option for one design to be made. However the emails aren't accessible to Andy who made the campaign, therefore it can't happen.

Its dead easy this, ignore the muppets trying to cast doubt, trying to derail the mural, grow a pair of @#/? and lets agree a design and get this done.

Route the paypal through several accounts, its so easy and untraceable unless you're dealing with the FBI and even then they'll struggle to trace it.

Our owners can't even sack inept shelf stacking ****s correctly, does anyone think they'll be able to successfully sue fans?

Lets just agree a design and if anyone's worried about losing jobs, losing careers or losing face, give me a shout and I'll happily front this project and @#/? to the owners.

Get a grip FFS, lets at least unite and get this mural agreed and done.

Gav please PM me. If you are happy to roll with this there is still time to make changes and for you to lead this.

EDIT: Gav I have sent you a PM. If anyone else is interested in helping on this please PM.

[Willie Eckerslike]

As someone that donated you without doubt deserve a big voice in this.

At the last time I checked, to have the mural painted in time for Wolves the artist was only confident in this design. There where others which where rejected: the Rao family behind bars with other villains, just text, a 'before' and 'now' themed image

The artist is confident the peice he's put together would have the most impact. He's also offered to amend it once Venkys sell, to reflect jack looking down with pride and happiness - which definately sells it to me.

If there is a real passion from people that have donated to have the painting delayed then definately get yourselves heard. You are, so far, the only person I know donated and has recommended we wait, however I'm sure if it's a majority saying this people will postpone it.

It's worth noting that the original idea was to email everyone that donated with a voting option for one design to be made. However the emails aren't accessible to Andy who made the campaign, therefore it can't happen.

Regardless of whether people donated or didn't we are all, hopefully, Rovers fans on here so could we have a simple poll?

As I said I'm quite happy for the current design to be the one if most fans think it does what we want

If, however, the majority said 'No' then we don't want a design painting up that attracts negativity from the wider fan base.

Referring to Gavs post above, I also agree that we should either get on with it or understand why we are holding off (for a different design would be the only reason to me).