[Archived] Southend v Rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Hickman wasn't a great player by any means but there were no lost causes when he was up front. He'd turn a bad pass into a good pass if he could. Just what we lack at present.

[tomphil]

42 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm absolutely confident Lowe would have had 0% impact on Saturday's result if he had been playing. We needed a character out there who could take a game by the scruff of the neck and hand out a few bollockings to players who looked like they'd rather be anywhere else. Lowe isn't that person.

I doubt we missed Jason Lowe one iota it's just some fancy a bit of attention so will drop the Lowe bomb every time we get beat this season probably. If we have a bad season then if it follows form on here he'll be Tugay or Robbie Savages clone by the end of it 

He was useless captaining a side fighting relegation last season, largely uneffective in about 100 others and he'd be useless this season besides it's a team game and about time we actually had one instead of a bunch of individuals, some running about a lot and some not !

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, tomphil said:

I doubt we missed Jason Lowe one iota it's just some fancy a bit of attention so will drop the Lowe bomb every time we get beat this season probably. If we have a bad season then if it follows form on here he'll be Tugay or Robbie Savages clone by the end of it 

He was useless captaining a side fighting relegation last season, largely uneffective in about 100 others and he'd be useless this season besides it's a team game and about time we actually had one instead of a bunch of individuals, some running about a lot and some not !

Which ones are running about a lot Tom ? I must have missed that.

[J*B]

13 hours ago, Phil T said:

But it's got to hurt the owners. Does it?

I suspect it doesn't, despite that interesting info you have. Fan attendance is surely chicken feed for Venkys, nothing more.

If fans don't want to turn up in spite of Venkys, fair enough. Everyone has their reasons. I just don't think it affects Venkys in the way that people like to believe it does.

When Venkys bought Rovers, they where making just under 100k a game with 19k Rovers fans turning up (plus an average away following around 3.5k). That included ticket sales, roverstore sales on the day, programmes, food, beer, parking, corporate boxes against costs like security and police.

Now with 7k home fans predicted at each game, they're looking at 16k profit per game. Ticket sales are down but in turn people are turning up but not spending money at Ewood - they're purposely not getting a programme, beer and a burger and the costs are higher with more police and security ever at the games. 

Venkys are covering the losses out of their pockets. I wouldn't say circa 80k per game, at 23 games (just under 2m a year) is chicken feed - its essentially the entire net spend of our transfer activity this year. 

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

When Venkys bought Rovers, they where making just under 100k a game with 19k Rovers fans turning up (plus an average away following around 3.5k). That included ticket sales, roverstore sales on the day, programmes, food, beer, parking, corporate boxes against costs like security and police.

Now with 7k home fans predicted at each game, they're looking at 16k profit per game. Ticket sales are down but in turn people are turning up but not spending money at Ewood - they're purposely not getting a programme, beer and a burger and the costs are higher with more police and security ever at the games. 

Venkys are covering the losses out of their pockets. I wouldn't say circa 80k per game, at 23 games (just under 2m a year) is chicken feed - its essentially the entire net spend of our transfer activity this year. 

Its an interesting one because some people claim that the plummeting sales/revenues you point out are merely a fact of life and an inevitable consequence of dropping down the divisions.

To an extent that is probably correct. Go from Premier League to 3rd division no matter what the reasons and revenues on matchdays will drop substantially.

However there is another element at play here and that is the fact that this club has treated things like corporate sales and matchday income with nowhere near the level of importance it should have been treated with.

To this day we continue to operate without a commercial director. Why? Surely if the club is looking to boost income and claw in some more money from sponsorship/shirt sales/commercial activities the first thing to do would be to recruit a capable director who could lead efforts on that front? As I've pointed out previously, Accrington Stanley and AFC Fylde have both employed Commercial Directors who are responsible for improving performance in this area whilst Blackburn Rovers don't. That is disgraceful. So when I hear Mike Cheston bleating on about a lack of money I have no sympathy, because these owners and this club hasn't done enough to bring more money in. To be honest it was always the case even pre-Venkys that for a Premier League established club we were well behind the times in attracting major sponsors and developing income streams but we got away with it so to speak because the club was prudently managed and had the benefit of TV money pouring in.

I look around Ewood Park and how many major local companies are sponsoring the club or are involved at any level? Whatever people claim the fact is that Blackburn and Lancashire has a large population with numerous large industrial groups based at Whitebirk/Shadsworth/Darwen yet how many of these have boxes or advertising boards around the ground? Not very many.

If it was hurting Venkys I would expect to see serious efforts to improve revenue streams yet I don't believe that is being done.

 

[the original david brent]

We need a big lad at the top to hold the ball up in the mould of Marc - Antoine Fortune. He showed us exactly what we are missing. His ability to hold the ball and win the headers allowed Southends other attacking players to play off him.

Unfortunately we didn't have that. Danny Graham looks like he has a lost a stone, but that seems to have taken away his physical presence to hold the ball up and keep the centre halves at bay. A heavier Danny Graham has always been very good at holding it up and mixing it up with opposition defences. I don't recall him holding it up once nor winning a single header. The one time he did have a free header it went straight to a Southend player on their left and they nearly scored on the counter. 

Ive also previously queried Peter Whittingham's performances in the pre season topic having not heard or read anything about him in the match reports. Having seen him play for the first time on Saturday (admittedly on a stream) I am concerned. He just looked too slow and lightweight for a physical encounter away at Southend. He didn't seem to move from a 10 yard by 10 yard deep central area. A number of times our full backs were taking throwings and looking for outlets; he didn't make himself available despite being in space. The game just seemed to pass him by. I really hope he isn't Danny Murphy mk II. Maybe he will be more suited at home on a slick playing surface?

In all reality I could criticise everyone of the performances (bar Raya and Mulgrew) but I've singled out the above two as so much is expected of them at this level.

i must also query Mowbrays formation. What formation were we actually playing?! Sometimes what's wrong with good old fashioned 4-4-2?

[alcd]

We seemed to start with 4-1.5- 2-1. I know that only adds up to 8.5 as Smallwood counts only 1/2 and Samuel nothing although he was on the pitch. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Anyone still think our defence is more than good enough?

Shocking.

[the original david brent]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Anyone still think our defence is more than good enough?

Shocking.

Fullbacks need to improve in my opinion.

I thought Nyambe really struggled. He looked nervous and Southend seemed to have a lot of joy down his side. His performance was epitomised in the 2nd half when he got skinned and hacked his man down to receive a booking and concede a free kick in a dangerous area. Would we have been better with the more experienced Caddis?

Williams has to learn to be more confident when attacking. Defending is only half of the role of a full back. He got into some dangerous areas on the left in the first half but failed to run at their right back and the attack broke down.

[roversfan99]

Williams was terrible defensively aswell, his positioning was awful and if I remember rightly, it was him being caught under the ball that led to a corner resulting in their first goal.

We need a first choice left back brought in, I didn't understand how he got anywhere near player of the season last season as he was a noticeable weak point then.

[jim mk2]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Williams was terrible defensively aswell, his positioning was awful and if I remember rightly, it was him being caught under the ball that led to a corner resulting in their first goal.

We need a first choice left back brought in, I didn't understand how he got anywhere near player of the season last season as he was a noticeable weak point then.

I still maintain Williams is one of the worst left backs I've seen in a Rovers shirt. OK going forward but a poor defender who gets caught out of position too often and is easily outmanoeuvred by a half decent forwards. Southend will have done their homework on him before the game. 

[Dreams of 1995]

I don't understand why Caddis didn't start. I suspect he will against Doncaster if the reviews are right.

Our whole back 4 is weak. We need a commanding centre half - one that costs money and is of value, not a loanee or a surplus to requirements player. I don't think we will get one though and we will pay for that.

[Dackhead]

A disappointment we haven't hit the ground running. We learn and move on. That is all. No wholesale changes, no dumping players after 1 fkin game, we play our way into form.

[Speedie Dived]

9 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

He might be staying, but if reports of him jumping out of tackles and squealing like a little piggy are true he certainly won't be fighting.

He didn't do that at Southend either. He was our best player by a country mile.

Was running the game on his own for 20 mins in second half.

[USABlue]

8 hours ago, Shrimper said:

Undoubtedly. Most of us rational shrimpers thought exactly that, prior to 3pm on Saturday. Now, If only Mowbray can work that out, I guarentee you will be a force in this division. 

Thanks for your reasoned posts.  Condolences, on the fan that passed.

[roverandout]

8 hours ago, Shrimper said:

Undoubtedly. Most of us rational shrimpers thought exactly that, prior to 3pm on Saturday. Now, If only Mowbray can work that out, I guarentee you will be a force in this division. 

So said steve kean...henning berg...appleton....lambert...coyle...fraid it doesnt work like that.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Judging by some reactions over what was a pants result on the first day of the season, some here are probably buying one of these already.

[tomphil]

17 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Judging by some reactions over what was a pants result on the first day of the season, some here are probably buying one of these already.

There was a truck load of those seen being delivered to Ewood dressing rooms around March last year.

[JacknOry]

7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Anyone still think our defence is more than good enough?

Shocking.

yeah ward, nyambe, williams and graham can cover

[Shrimper]

3 hours ago, USABlue said:

Thanks for your reasoned posts.  Condolences, on the fan that passed.

Thanks. The Southend fans have roundly agreed that although the death was sad, the 83-year-old gent passed away in a place he loved, and given half the chance we'd all take that option. Those sitting close to him at the time said he looked peaceful, despite the paramedics frantically applying CPR. 

[Shrimper]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

So said steve kean...henning berg...appleton....lambert...coyle...fraid it doesnt work like that.

The difference is, those managers said that when you were in the league above. No offence, but you's haven't exactly been seen as promotion favourites in the Championship, for a long time. And I've always classed Rovers as a prem team, and thought they should have done so much more in The Championship, but for whatever reason that never happened (@#/? the Venky's),

But you now find yourself in a league where you are the biggest fish in the pond. Your quality WILL shine through the utter dross in this league, eventually. Don't get me wrong, Every single team in this league is a hard-working, battling, gritty team. They will all want your scalp & no-one will roll over for you. But the majority of those teams lack that touch of class, that you currently have. THAT is what will see you through, IF the application from the manager & the players is correct. 

Believe me, This league isn't the DaVinci Code. It's simple... Hard work & determination will get you so far. That extra touch of class will all-but guarentee success. 

If your players are up for it, and you's play 4-4-2 at Ewood against Donny, you'll sweep them aside. Christmas tree formations & new-age tactics won't break down a tough, battling team of 11 men who will park the bus & invite you to attack at them. I've seen it again & again & again. 

[Butty]

3 minutes ago, Shrimper said:

The difference is, those managers said that when you were in the league above. No offence, but you's haven't exactly been seen as promotion favourites in the Championship, for a long time. And I've always classed Rovers as a prem team, and thought they should have done so much more in The Championship, but for whatever reason that never happened (@#/? the Venky's),

But you now find yourself in a league where you are the biggest fish in the pond. Your quality WILL shine through the utter dross in this league, eventually. Don't get me wrong, Every single team in this league is a hard-working, battling, gritty team. They will all want your scalp & no-one will roll over for you. But the majority of those teams lack that touch of class, that you currently have. THAT is what will see you through, IF the application from the manager & the players is correct. 

Believe me, This league isn't the DaVinci Code. It's simple... Hard work & determination will get you so far. That extra touch of class will all-but guarentee success. 

If your players are up for it, and you's play 4-4-2 at Ewood against Donny, you'll sweep them aside. Christmas tree formations & new-age tactics won't break down a tough, battling team of 11 men who will park the bus & invite you to attack at them. I've seen it again & again & again. 

Thanks for coming on here and giving a good insight into the league etc, and for also not gloating about turning us over on Saturday.  I'm hoping we switch to two up top. If everyone else is playing 4-4-2 and we match that, surely we have more quality in our side too win a lot more than we lose! I did have a feeling it would take us a while too get into full stride, Sheff united were the same last season so I'm not in panic mode yet at all. Hopefully come the end of the season we're both celebrating promotion. Kightly looks like he's going too be a class act in this league this season. Good luck to you boys mate. 

[Shrimper]

19 minutes ago, Butty said:

Thanks for coming on here and giving a good insight into the league etc, and for also not gloating about turning us over on Saturday.  I'm hoping we switch to two up top. If everyone else is playing 4-4-2 and we match that, surely we have more quality in our side too win a lot more than we lose! I did have a feeling it would take us a while too get into full stride, Sheff united were the same last season so I'm not in panic mode yet at all. Hopefully come the end of the season we're both celebrating promotion. Kightly looks like he's going too be a class act in this league this season. Good luck to you boys mate. 

No need for gloating. As I mentioned in my OP, I've got a soft spot for Rovers, having seen them play years ago, and genuinely mean it when I say I hope you will one day return to your rightful place, in the Prem. 

Yeah, the general formations used in this league, are 4-4-2, or if you're away from home a 4-5-1 counter attacking. A lot of teams will come to Ewood, park the bus, and try and hit you on a counter, or from a set-piece. I should know, I've seen it happen at Roots Hall more often than I care to remember. Donny will more than likely do it on Saturday. But on the flipside, I've seen Phil Brown utilise it for us, so it's swings & roundabouts. I'm sure you'll discover that when we visit Ewood later in the season 

I can't work out why Mowbray didn't fancy 442 on Saturday. It was clear to us very quickly that you's were intent on humping long balls to Danny Graham, even though he had absolutely no support near him, and Ferdinand had his number. Hit and hope rarely works. You packed the midfield, and completely neglected the flanks, allowing the highly-rated McGlashan & Kighlty all the freedom and space they wanted. If you'd have played 442, we wouldn't have had the time & space to do what we wanted in those first 20 minutes. Once we realised that we could easily match & exploit you's, we grew & grew in confidence. 

Sheff Utd struggled for years in this league, because they believed their own hype. They thought they could turn up & play however they fancied, and waltz away with 3 points. But as I've said, even if you're at home to a team who are bottom of the league, and haven't won in 10 games, you still need to earn that right to walk away with 3 points, because they won't just let you. Sheff Utd discovered that early last season, when we went to their place. We were in a horrendous run of form, and they were on a decent run. So of course we went 3-0 up in the first half. Wilder seemed to straighten them out & they've finally fought their way out of this league. 

Kights will be sublime if he stays fit. I know you guys aren't too keen on him, due to the connection with the scum down the road, but let's be fair, there's not many teams in this league who wouldn't want him playing for them. He's a born & bread Essex boy aswell, who started his career with us, which gives him a lot of extra love around our way. 

[JHRover]

32 minutes ago, Shrimper said:

I know you guys aren't too keen on him, due to the connection with the scum down the road

I'm starting to like you

[perthblue02]

Bloody hell Shrimper you will have our resident self proclaimed expert on tactics in tears by championing 4-4-2, Just don't mention  a Director of Football / coach scenario as being a complete waste of time compared to a proper manager  or his his head will explode

Thanks for the insights into life in League 1, hope you keep posting throughout the season