v Norwich City (a) - 17/12/22

[Miller11]

4 hours ago, LDRover said:

Well done to all concerned on yesterday's result. I honestly thought it'd be a shoo in JDT would drop Dack as per usual but, fair play to him, he made the big decision to drop Travis and it was 100% the correct one.

Maybe, we're too fixated on having a supposed 'tackler' in midfield based on comments on here pre game. The thing is, these days, it's more a game of anticipation and interceptions in regards to 'transition'. That is one of Buckley's strengths and he was excellent in that regard yesterday. That, coupled with the way we moved the ball into their half quicker was the catalyst to a great result.

So, half way in and in a far better position than most of us forecast. All to play for.

Travis doesn’t seem to have a tackle in him these days. We looked far more up for a battle yesterday without him in the side. He looks like he’s spent the last couple of years trying to become a pound shop Robbie Savage. Savage was thunderous in the tackle and a better player than he ever got credit for. Travis seems to be utterly obsessed with “shithousery”, moaning at the ref, rolling around, niggly fouls and acts of petulance. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Miller11

[Sparks Rover]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wouldnt play an attacking player there but I dont necessarily think that the answer for the here and now is in the academy.

Edun is hopeless and as poor a defensive full back as I can remember. Not convinced that Mola is much better either.

This is where we need to use the loan market.  Morton is OK sometimes but is he any better than Wharton,  Bucko and the likes (we need a couple of bought central midfielders)....look.at Fernández for the nobbers, Laird for QPR....this is where we will find a young Left sided player to help Pickering.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Batty has a bad injury but even if he didnt, it can be dangerous to be too expectant on the academy by filling numerous spaces with untested kids.

How do these players get from being untested to being test unless we play them? 

[roversfan99]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How do these players get from being untested to being test unless we play them? 

I don't think we should just expect them to fill so many gaps all at the same time. If Batty as an individual (when fit) is deemed to be capable of performing well at Championship level now, then fine, otherwise we need to look to sign another left back. It shouldn't just be a case of, we are a player short in x position, expect a kid to fill in.

[Blue blood]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

How do these players get from being untested to being test unless we play them? 

A few ideas:

1) Loans - the right loan can make a player, look at Wharton. 

2) Gradual introduction - if they are expected to be stepping up immediately to fill places like a seasoned pro that's a lot of pressure and expectation. In many cases too it can be unrealistic. I think introducing them slowly with less pressure and expectation, where less is dependant on them will help ease them in more. 

3) Don't do it all at once. My biggest gripe with our youth is all of them are expected to step up at once. That's never going to happen and adds more pressure to the youngsters and more demands as they are all trying to adjust at the same time. I'd just try blooding in a couple each half season. Otherwise you are making it way more difficult for them. 

 

We have to use youth. It's out biggest USP imo. However I think it's equally vital we have to do it correctly. 

[tomphil]

That's the danger of moving too many up at once and having a policy that your academy is first port of call every time there is a vacancy.

 

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

A few ideas:

1) Loans - the right loan can make a player, look at Wharton. 

2) Gradual introduction - if they are expected to be stepping up immediately to fill places like a seasoned pro that's a lot of pressure and expectation. In many cases too it can be unrealistic. I think introducing them slowly with less pressure and expectation, where less is dependant on them will help ease them in more. 

3) Don't do it all at once. My biggest gripe with our youth is all of them are expected to step up at once. That's never going to happen and adds more pressure to the youngsters and more demands as they are all trying to adjust at the same time. I'd just try blooding in a couple each half season. Otherwise you are making it way more difficult for them. 

 

We have to use youth. It's out biggest USP imo. However I think it's equally vital we have to do it correctly. 

I guess the counter to the bit in in bold is that we are third at the moment, and all of our young players seem to be having better seasons than the likes of Evans, Johnson, Smallwood etc.

[rigger]

15 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

This is where we need to use the loan market.  Morton is OK sometimes but is he any better than Wharton,  Bucko and the likes (we need a couple of bought central midfielders)....look.at Fernández for the nobbers, Laird for QPR....this is where we will find a young Left sided player to help Pickering.

for me Mola could fill that role.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

for me Mola could fill that role.

I've not seen it mate.  

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think we should just expect them to fill so many gaps all at the same time. If Batty as an individual (when fit) is deemed to be capable of performing well at Championship level now, then fine, otherwise we need to look to sign another left back. It shouldn't just be a case of, we are a player short in x position, expect a kid to fill in.

Are we really filling so many gaps all at the same time? 

Batty, Adam Wharton and Phillips are England internationals at their age groups. We should be looking at bringing them through here into our first team. 

5 hours ago, Blue blood said:

A few ideas:

1) Loans - the right loan can make a player, look at Wharton. 

2) Gradual introduction - if they are expected to be stepping up immediately to fill places like a seasoned pro that's a lot of pressure and expectation. In many cases too it can be unrealistic. I think introducing them slowly with less pressure and expectation, where less is dependant on them will help ease them in more. 

3) Don't do it all at once. My biggest gripe with our youth is all of them are expected to step up at once. That's never going to happen and adds more pressure to the youngsters and more demands as they are all trying to adjust at the same time. I'd just try blooding in a couple each half season. Otherwise you are making it way more difficult for them. 

 

We have to use youth. It's out biggest USP imo. However I think it's equally vital we have to do it correctly. 

I expecting Phillips to fill Ayala place in the squad but I am expecting Hyam and Scott Wharton to be our seasoned pro come next season if Ayala doesn't stay on for another season which I think he might. On Adam Wharton, I think we need to use him at the right times and and develop him here. On Batty, I think he could step up to being Pickering's back up if Edun does go. 

[smiller14]

A much more pleasing performance. Well organised, more pragmatic and mixed it up a bit. Can't fault an away win and clean sheet. Much better after the debacle of the previous 2 games. 

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Are we really filling so many gaps all at the same time? 

Batty, Adam Wharton and Phillips are England internationals at their age groups. We should be looking at bringing them through here into our first team. 

I expecting Phillips to fill Ayala place in the squad but I am expecting Hyam and Scott Wharton to be our seasoned pro come next season if Ayala doesn't stay on for another season which I think he might. On Adam Wharton, I think we need to use him at the right times and and develop him here. On Batty, I think he could step up to being Pickering's back up if Edun does go. 

Yes we are filling lots of gaps at the same time. Wharton, Phillips, Vale, Garrett and then potentially Batty would be 5 at once. Wharton is a first team ready player now, the others not so much.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Yes we are filling lots of gaps at the same time. Wharton, Phillips, Vale, Garrett and then potentially Batty would be 5 at once. Wharton is a first team ready player now, the others not so much.

Its around 20% of the squad which I don't think is at all alot. We have one of the best academy in the country and category 1 status. Plus one of the best record in English football at producing our own players. 

I think Adam Wharton need to game time managed very carefully and I would like to see him at least the bench now if not started but I think Buckley and Morton more than impressed against Norwich to be starting the next game. Question is could we go with 2 centre midfielders on the bench. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[rigger]

3 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I've not seen it mate.  

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Edited December 19, 2022 by rigger

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Yes we are filling lots of gaps at the same time. Wharton, Phillips, Vale, Garrett and then potentially Batty would be 5 at once. Wharton is a first team ready player now, the others not so much.

Personally I’d rather fill the gaps with our young players than those of premier league teams. Morton is playing week in and week out for us and he’s a month younger than Harlock and 6 months older than Garrett. I don’t think he’s anywhere near special enough to be pushing these lads down the pecking order.

The ideal scenario at left back would be to sign someone with a bit of experience to upgrade on Pickering, or at least provide genuine competition. If we are looking purely at an understudy I’d use the kids.

[garnersfags]

I'm really sorry as I'm sure this will have been mentioned loadsa times, but performances aside, many of us would have taken a point against Burnley, Preston and Norwich. 

I couldn't find a single Rovers fan with a good word to say about JDT after the PNE fiasco. Strange days, indeed. Don't get me wrong, I thought his decision to change the forward line that had won us six home games in a row, is up there with the worst footballing decisions I have seen.

However, dropping Trav was a similarly unexpected decision and obviously it really paid off. 

Norwich were poor, even when we didn't press as well, but we were very composed and consistent, and deserved the comfortable win.

I think this will be the nature of our season because a winning run isn't an objective under JDT, so expect more baffling experimentation. 

11 changes on Wednesday, anyone.....? Maybe this is why we're not selling many tickets, I'm taking 5 more family members than usual, so hope there is a late surge....

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Personally I’d rather fill the gaps with our young players than those of premier league teams. Morton is playing week in and week out for us and he’s a month younger than Harlock and 6 months older than Garrett. I don’t think he’s anywhere near special enough to be pushing these lads down the pecking order.

The ideal scenario at left back would be to sign someone with a bit of experience to upgrade on Pickering, or at least provide genuine competition. If we are looking purely at an understudy I’d use the kids.

The key is always quality rather than ownership. I have been critical of Morton but he looks much better than Garrett at the moment, and Harlock is seemingly even behind him, therefore he should be above him. Adam Wharton IMO is the one of them all who looks ready NOW but he should be playing not because we have lost players and are expecting graduates to fill their spots, but because he as an individual is good enough.

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its around 20% of the squad which I don't think is at all alot. We have one of the best academy in the country and category 1 status. Plus one of the best record in English football at producing our own players. 

I think Adam Wharton need to game time managed very carefully and I would like to see him at least the bench now if not started but I think Buckley and Morton more than impressed against Norwich to be starting the next game. Question is could we go with 2 centre midfielders on the bench. 

Wharton is a real asset even in the here and now, Vale and Garrett not so much.

[Sparks Rover]

7 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Personally I’d rather fill the gaps with our young players than those of premier league teams. Morton is playing week in and week out for us and he’s a month younger than Harlock and 6 months older than Garrett.

Interesting point.  However, would we be easily 3rd with Harlock playing week in week out?

[Miller11]

15 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Interesting point.  However, would we be easily 3rd with Harlock playing week in week out?

Good question, perhaps not. He certainly looks a talented player, but less potential than Wharton for me. He’s done pretty well by and large with a few really strong performances and a few horror shows. I don’t think he’s one of the individuals that has been vitally important to us so far this season, so I don’t think we’d be far off.

[Dreams of 1995]

I suppose you have to judge the young lads after a series of performances. Far too many fans say they aren't ready or poor players from a couple of 10 minute cameos. I would like to see Harlock or Garrett get a 4 or 5 match run in midfield playing 60+ minutes

If you watched Morton for the first time vs Norwich you'd say he definitely isn't ready. The boy was poor. But he's also had some excellent performances for us too

The one thing Morton does give is a good set piece delivery

Edited December 20, 2022 by Dreams of 1995

[chaddyrovers]

On 19/12/2022 at 19:18, roversfan99 said:

Wharton is a real asset even in the here and now, Vale and Garrett not so much.

Yes Adam Wharton is an asset right now but Rovers under JDT has to managed him properly. I do think he should be the bench but the problem is do you want 2 centre midfielders on the bench. 

I rate Garrett highly and He was good against Sunderland and I don't think he looks out of place in the first time at all. We have 5 centre midfielders for 2 midfielder places.