Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[rovers11]

Another transfer window where Venkys are not allowed to release funds for transfers. This simply cannot go on. Its killed our season and if it continues into the summer transfer window then we will be in big relegation trouble next year. We're not going down this year though. 

Could this be the catalyst that finally sees them look to sell up? On the other hand, does it suits them? They are limited to how much they can spend on the club and can just blame the Indian government. 

Edited January 4 by rovers11

[Mattyblue]

We have fairly unique (ain’t that the truth) owners and for me it makes a sale seem unlikely in even the medium term (legal problems forcing one aside).

One type of owner seem to be your old school local businessman, he’ll sell up when he realises he can’t take it any further or he’s sick of the abuse from ungrateful fans or he’s been given an offer he can’t refuse.

Others are the US venture capitalist types, they just want to flip it for a profit at some point down the line or they lose their shirt, either way they’ll come and go.

Others idealistic young-ish types like your fella at Sunderland, ‘data analysis’ and all that, they seem to soon get bored and get shut. 

Obviously not an exhaustive list, but you get my point, these owners have a finite lifespan.

Here? Just another business in an unwieldy conglomerate that gets involved in everything from poultry and food production to vaccines to medicine to property. The overseas football club they own that was randomly bought a decade plus ago is losing money? Just tell the CEO to cut costs and we’ll speak in six months. I doubt a sale is even remotely on the horizon.
 

Edited January 4 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, rovers11 said:

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers. This simply cannot go on. Its killed our season and if it continues into the summer transfer window then we will be in big relegation trouble next year. We're not going down this year though. 

Could this be the catalyst that finally sees them look to sell up? On the other hand, does it suits them? They are limited to how much they can spend on the club and can just blame the Indian government. 

It all seems to fall very conveniently but lets be right we'd have to go back a long way to when they just released funds for players purchase anyway.

It tends to be sell to buy and even then only when the funds show up in the accounts.

[RoverDom]

My view has always been that I want venkys gone but to be careful what we wish for when fans start dreaming of administration. 

However this latest court fiasco has seem them strip the club. The squads down to the bare bones, no experience and no chance of a transfer pot. We're no longer treading water and it's barely even a managed decline. We need them gone by whatever means possible. 

I'm an eternal optimist, I live in the optimism thread. But now I think that this is no longer sustainable beyond this season. We'll get through this season but if the summer window is anything like the last 9 months, we're going to league 1. 

 

Which is a right kick in the teeth because I think if GB and JDT had been given even a modest pot over summer then we'd have been a nailed on top 6 side. We were a few signings off really challenging.

Edited January 4 by RoverDom

[Rogerb]

9 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

We're going to league 1. 

 

Which is a right kick in the teeth because I think if GB and JDT had been given even a modest pot over summer then we'd have been a nailed on top 6 side. We were a few signings off really challenging.

League 1 and beyond

[Gamst21]

It really is depressing to think the way the club is going and how it's being run at the minute. I know most people are against the idea of protests but some outside pressure from us fans needs to happen soon. We can't keep relying on an Indian court thousands of miles away dictate how we operate? Truly dark days ahead. 

[Mattyblue]

It’s not being against protests, go for it. But in reality the fanbase has never been more pro Venky’s than it is right now (as preposterous as that sounds).

Try telling the folk around you at Ewood that we need them to sell and see what reaction you get. They’ve long won the hearts and minds of the fanbase, so a big protest just ain’t happening… well maybe against JDT if we lose a few more.

[broadsword]

Bleeding ada, won the hearts of the fan base, Christ almighty.

 

It's like Winston Smith learning to love big brother.

 

I remember the scene where he goes into a back street pub thinking if there's hope it lies with the proles, then he realises the proles are an absolute state and there's no hope.

 

It's a moment of utter despair. Much how I feel at the moment.

 

We've never played in the fourth tier, does it really beckon? 

Edited January 4 by broadsword

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

36 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s not being against protests, go for it. But in reality the fanbase has never been more pro Venky’s than it is right now (as preposterous as that sounds).

Try telling the folk around you at Ewood that we need them to sell and see what reaction you get. They’ve long won the hearts and minds of the fanbase, so a big protest just ain’t happening… well maybe against JDT if we lose a few more.

I point blank refuse to believe our fanbase is so apathetic and submissive.Just what the fook is going on?

The song if you tolerate this by the Manics plays in my mind.

[MarkBRFC]

3 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

I point blank refuse to believe our fanbase is so apathetic and submissive.Just what the fook is going on?

The song if you tolerate this by the Manics plays in my mind.

I think a combination of getting relegated to the 3rd division, and Bury going bust spooked a huge part of our fanbase and they began to settle and be thankful of these idiots for some reason.

[Dreams of 1995]

You have to wonder what the FA, EFL and maybe even the PL make of situations like this

We are in a strange situation here where a foreign government intervention has meant a football club is effectively trading insolvent, unless that same foreign government allows a transfer of funds...

This opens the league up to all sorts of abuses by foreign agents

[wilsdenrover]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You have to wonder what the FA, EFL and maybe even the PL make of situations like this

We are in a strange situation here where a foreign government intervention has meant a football club is effectively trading insolvent, unless that same foreign government allows a transfer of funds...

This opens the league up to all sorts of abuses by foreign agents

Why would the agents/governments need to be foreign ones?

 

[Mattyblue]

30 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

I think a combination of getting relegated to the 3rd division, and Bury going bust spooked a huge part of our fanbase and they began to settle and be thankful of these idiots for some reason.

Exactly that.

The other day a lad I’m friends with on Facebook shared a memory from NYD 2017 (relegated to L1 five months later) of him on Sky at the Newcastle game that afternoon. I spotted two ‘Venky’s Out’ flags in the screenshot.

Imagine unfurling those now and see what reaction you’d get.

Edited January 4 by Mattyblue

[NeilInBristol]

5 hours ago, rovers11 said:

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers. This simply cannot go on. Its killed our season and if it continues into the summer transfer window then we will be in big relegation trouble next year. We're not going down this year though. 

Could this be the catalyst that finally sees them look to sell up? On the other hand, does it suits them? They are limited to how much they can spend on the club and can just blame the Indian government. 

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers

 

Is this confirmed now?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You have to wonder what the FA, EFL and maybe even the PL make of situations like this

We are in a strange situation here where a foreign government intervention has meant a football club is effectively trading insolvent, unless that same foreign government allows a transfer of funds...

This opens the league up to all sorts of abuses by foreign agents

They'll do what they always do and ignore it unless it landed in front of them.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

Why would the agents/governments need to be foreign ones?

 

By agent I didn't mean football agent in the way we know, I meant just as someone acting on behalf of a government, like the Indian tax authorities

As they are overseas the UK government or HMRC has no authority over them. Many clubs could be shut down by changes in other nations' tax rules, or at least suffer administration. It seems precarious

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You have to wonder what the FA, EFL and maybe even the PL make of situations like this

We are in a strange situation here where a foreign government intervention has meant a football club is effectively trading insolvent, unless that same foreign government allows a transfer of funds...

This opens the league up to all sorts of abuses by foreign agents

Well, yes, just because you're deemed to be "fit and proper persons" at one point for the purposes of the ownership test does that mean you'll ALWAYS be judged "fit and proper" regardless of what happens or what you do subsequently though?

In effect the owners have put the Club in this unsatisfactory state by using the Club's parent Company to spend money on things they technically shouldn't have been spending money on. Does that not turn them from being "fit and proper" prior to that occurring into being not fit and proper?

(Tin hat on)

The only proviso to this though and I agree with RoverDom is that even notwithstanding the above you should still be careful what you wish for.  Even if for the sake of argument they were only allowed by an Indian Court to put in £15m p.a. instead of the usual £20m p.a. - if they were to leave you'd still need new owners who could put in roughly that amount. Otherwise the Club would prima be worse off financially albeit there might be an upturn in attendances.

[rovers11]

2 hours ago, NeilInBristol said:

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers

 

Is this confirmed now?

Sorry, typo in my post. It should say *not* allowed to release funds.

Court case at the end of Jan which will allow them to send across funds to cover running costs so that we can keep the lights on, but the court won't allow them to send money across for "luxuries" like new signings.

[bazza]

2 hours ago, NeilInBristol said:

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers

 

Is this confirmed now?

Is that "now allowed" or is it a typo and should read "not allowed"?

You've answered for me.

I wish the Indian Government would ban them from owning a foreign football club.

Edited January 4 by bazza

[rigger]

2 hours ago, NeilInBristol said:

Another transfer window where Venkys are now allowed to release funds for transfers

 

Is this confirmed now?

Did he mean NOT rather than NOW

[Upside Down]

Granted, the future without them is uncertain. Who knows what might happen. 

One thing that is clear is that venkys are strangling the life out of this club. There is a massive downgrade in process so that when we get relegated to league one next year or the year after the spotlight will be away from the owners.

I'm not going to start rattling off the multitude of clubs that have been bought and sold over the last few years, that has been done to death. It is a total none argument. 

I am hoping that the court case (conveniently scheduled for the END of January) will end up in funds not being sent and we end up in administration. 

Administration may not be great but it allows us to move forward. 

 

[NeilInBristol]

23 minutes ago, rigger said:

Did he mean NOT rather than NOW

 

30 minutes ago, bazza said:

Is that "now allowed" or is it a typo and should read "not allowed"?

You've answered for me.

I wish the Indian Government would ban them from owning a foreign football club.

 

31 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

Sorry, typo in my post. It should say *not* allowed to release funds.

Court case at the end of Jan which will allow them to send across funds to cover running costs so that we can keep the lights on, but the court won't allow them to send money across for "luxuries" like new signings.

See above

[wilsdenrover]

29 minutes ago, NeilInBristol said:

 

 

See above

Getting his t and w mixed up - what a tanker 😁

[Adam C]

6 hours ago, broadsword said:

Bleeding ada, won the hearts of the fan base, Christ almighty.

 

It's like Winston Smith learning to love big brother.

 

I remember the scene where he goes into a back street pub thinking if there's hope it lies with the proles, then he realises the proles are an absolute state and there's no hope.

 

It's a moment of utter despair. Much how I feel at the moment.

 

We've never played in the fourth tier, does it really beckon? 

If you want to know what the future of Rovers is under Venkys, picture a boot stamping on a human face - forever. 

[RoverDom]

14 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

We are in a strange situation here where a foreign government intervention has meant a football club is effectively trading insolvent, unless that same foreign government allows a transfer of funds...

It'll be interesting how this is is reflected in the annual accounts. The accounts have to be prepared on a going concern basis, a key part of the going concern assessment is that venkys are willing and able to provide funding. If I was an auditor I wouldn't sign off the going concern assessment based on current events. 

Our year ending June 23 accounts haven't been submitted yet so it could well affect those accounts. I'm not sure when exactly this Indian tax stuff happened but even if it was July onwards this is a massive post balance sheet event that the auditors would consider in the going concern assessment. 

I don't know what the implications are in terms of football governance if a club is assessed as not being a going concern.