The struggle for the soul of the club commenced on day one. There were about thirty clubs in the town when John Lewis decided to form a new one. Reasoning that money was the key he invited the sons of the mill owners and tradesmen to become the first members. In doing so he was taught a swift lesson as those he had invited voted to keep him from the office he wanted, secretary. He soon got his wish because the wealthy elite found the job demanding and tiresome. Lewis lost control of the club in 1897 when it became a limited company and the purchase of most of the shares by the mill owning families gave control to Richard Birtwistle, Lewis attempted to galvanise the small shareholders (shop keepers and clerks in the town) to help him re-gain control but he was easily defeated and resigned his directorship. From then there has been little change. A consortium of wealthy industrialists and tradesmen have controlled the club. After the First War there were attempts to change the voting rights to give the small shareholders (IE supporters) a say but they were quickly crushed. Before the Second War Alderman Critchley attempted to organise a place on the board for a small shareholders representative but he was defeated every time. The power of the board was so great that they could conspire to remove from office Blackburn's greatest son, Bob Crompton, whose greatest offence was to be recognised as the club's leading light. After the war nothing changed. Many of the directors of the club were openly contemptuous of the fans which led to the fiasco of the Final tickets in 1960, a consequence of which the club lost 30% of its fans overnight. The levels of attendance of 1959 and 1960 have never returned. Even so the club was slow to respond and it was not until Bill Bancroft took over that the importance of the fans' view was recognised. The appointment of one of the unsung heroes, Keith Cafferty, brought a voice close to the fans whose views Bancroft more often than not listened to. Since that time the club has slowly moved to listen to the fans. It is a red herring to assume that control of the club by one man, Jack Walker, changed the dynamics of the situation. Walker knew well the necessity of crowd support which is why he replaced the popular Terry Ibbotson with John Williams, a man who had trained in giving the public what they want. That changed overnight when Venky's took over. In their defence Indian friends inform me that considering the views of supporters is unknown in the country. Which can be the only explanation behind utterances such as "a few people generating thousands of mails" and the generally recognised smear campaign against the fans. There are signs that the club has realised that they have been misdirected and the appointment of Myers and Waggott can be interpreted as recognition of the fact but this has been a very small step. Stuart is one hundred per cent correct and history supports him. Protest has an effect. I doubt Bancroft, the most opinionated and curmudgeonly of men would have appointed a commercial manager if he had not seen that fans were staying away. As a follower of the club since 1952 and a season ticket holder since 1960 I can only applaud those who still struggle to try and ensure that the club is aware of the importance of the fans and do not simply accept the status quo.

It's amazing how quickly people forget just how good of a manager he was here and how good a fit he was for the club like Mowbray himself has been a good fit but his failings and mixed up approach to stuff on the pitch seems to have finally caught up with him again just as it did at Boro & Cov. He was more of a busted flush than Hughes before he came here that's for sure but you only have to look at the coaching set up Hughes brings and their ethos to see it would be a step in the right direction.

Hughes lasted five years at Stoke, 2013 to 2018. Three 9th placed finishes and then 13th. Went awry in his last season, but then many managers do have a shelf-life. Unfairly maligned in my opinion.

I'd be actively looking to offload: Gladwin (out of contract), Hart (inexplicably given an extension recently but certainly not a first team contender), Nuttall (season long loan or sale if the opportunity arises), Williams (sale), Conway (release), Leutwiler (release), Samuel (sale or season long loan). I wouldn't have a particularly strong view on Smallwood - if he wants to play every week then I'd move him on, if he's happy to accept that he isn't going to be in the team every week he might be ok on the bench. Rodwell - if a deal can be done that is sensible then I wouldn't be against him staying. Reed - looks like he's being phased out as he won't be here next season. Big shame as his versatility and energy has been important to us this season but I doubt our ambitions align with his and our budget won't stretch to buying him outright. Dack - clearly the aim should be to keep and build around but once again we're seeing the foundations being laid for a sale with the manager suggesting he might sell to raise funds - I don't trust them on that front. Bennett - probably similar story to Smallwood. Good pro to have around and useful at times but we probably need to move away from him being 1st name on the teamsheet every week - probably the least likely to be moved out. Lenihan - another one like Dack we should be retaining and building around but another one who the money men might fancy selling off for a few million. Mulgrew - probably the toughest decision of the lot as to what we do there but Mowbray is going to have to do something or it will cost him his job. He will either need to replace him or find a way of defending much better with him.

Very disappointing to hear negative comments about Rothwell only to then read gushing guff like this: https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/march/versatile-bennett-so-handy-to-have/ I reckon I could count the decent ‘balls into the box’ TM refers to on one hand during his time here. He’s had one heck of a mediocre season but let’s shower him with praise, Tony - he’s been quality.

I don’t think it helps who was in the picture to be honest, of all the players in the squad we had the most woefully under performing player of the season and a fantastic player that fans feel doesn’t have the right attitude to make good of his undoubted talent. Had the picture been of say Danny Graham, id personally think he has busted his balls all season and deserves a break. Footballers are spoilt babies and cancelling this break would have been counterproductive and if anything would have been seen as “giving into the fans” by players. I regularly listen to the John Parkin and Chris Brown podcasts and they talk of the mentality of players and fans relationship to time off and going out drinking , if you are winning it’s team building if you are losing it’s taking the piss but it’s the same players having the same down time win or lose.

Haven’t the last seven years taught you anything about what’s wrong with our club? You post 50 times a day moaning about Mowbray as though he is the only issue in an otherwise well-run, normal club. Mowbray, a washed-up bloke on the dole nearing retirement age, was getting calls from people in the game saying he was mad to come here. The one time we got an actual current manager he walked. The one time we seemed likely to get an actual current successful manager, someone, we know not who, nixed it and parachuted in Coyle. Mowbray will get fired when it suits the agenda of whoever decides these things, which will have nothing to do with what the fans think or want, nor how our results are going.

We'll have to figure out how to play Mulgrew as he's the club captain and he's someone who contributes a lot when on song, and I think Bell is a player who can be developed over time. Williams needs to go though, hopefully someone will be daft enough to give us a few grand. Also we should cut short the deal talks with Rodwell, and focus the budget on genuine defenders. We don't need anything fancy. Just a couple of guys who can head the ball, have a bit of pace, and can sense danger and react.

Does ok keeping stable Prem clubs stable but flounders at the more ambitious ones it seems but I think here he could build a team again in the mould of the last one on modest funds. Of course it would be a shadow of his side here last time but he brings everything that's missing at the moment like the tactics of a solid settled side with some physical presence both ends and some graft in the middle dotted about with a bit of pace and quality who can go toe to toe and grind out results and also play a bit when he lets them off the leash. Players would be coached for and signed for specific jobs within the team although not sure how he'd cope with an Indian middle man maybe dumping players on him he didn't want and telling him others were un-dropable - hypothetically of course.

Needs a scan for ability. And a full x-ray to find an ounce of desire.

Sure there’ll be a split consensus on this, but I’d keep Rodwell providing it was a sensible wage & the intention was for him to play central midfield, although I can’t see that happening from what we’ve heard previously from Mowbray. Shame for me as he could be a tidy centre mid at this level when kept fit, he undoubtedly has quality and experience that would be useful next to Travis. Reed likely won’t be here next season too so would make him a handier signing.

His bird looks remarkably like Williams.

I think you've got the dubious pleasure K-Hod! I'll bet he argues about the weather!

I've just seen on the LT website that in our four of our last five away games we have scored two in each but have garnered one point. That summarises exactly were we are.

I don't think Waggott's appointment has got anything to do with appeasing supporters or keeping them in the loop. It's more to do with the fact that Cheston was struggling to cope with running the operation on his own and my belief is Mowbray told the owners that additional support was essential and so recommended someone who he had worked with recently who was looking for a job. Waggott's role at the club seems to be almost entirely to try and increase revenues whilst cutting costs and I suspect that will be the sole criteria he is judged on. Clearly keeping supporters happy and buying stuff contributes towards that. Unfortunately in his 12 months or so at the club he has jacked prices of tickets up and closed another home area down, and publicly admitted falling short of his sales target. I eagerly await news of next years season ticket information but the mere fact we're already playing catch up to many Championship clubs on the sales window is just further evidence of the dysfunctional nature of the operation here. Any club or CEO so concerned about income and crowds would be moving heaven and earth to get such an important element of income on sale asap, yet no doubt when we do get news in April or May and we've missed 3 months of potential sales that rivals have enjoyed it will be a question of commitment of the fans, rather than any acceptance that Rovers' own performance is well short of what is needed.

By "actual current manager" I take it you mean Lambert. I'm pretty sure that like Mowbray he was not a "current manager" but out of work when we appiinted him. Talk of Hughes is interesting. I have no idea about whether he still has "it" but what he would do, like when he took over from Souness, would be to revise expectations for the better. There'd be no more talk about survival or maintaining our position as there was under Souness or nonsense about slow burns and gradual improvement as there is under Mowbray. He would set the target for success i.e. promotion as soon as possible and players wouldn't be able to turn up at half time or reach relative safety and clock off for the rest of the season. Whether he can achieve his targets these days obviously would be a bit of a gamble. Would take him over Mowbray though.

I went last weekend against Vallecano. Insane experience and fantastic to witness the genius in the flesh. Only shame was you could sense that they all had Lyon on their minds so took their foot off the gas once they’d scored the 3rd. If they’d wanted to they could have spanked them. I returned unscathed from Las Ramblas - so a successful trip all round!

Why get worked up ? They're supposed to be pro athletes with a bit of pride in themselves and the shirt. I bloody hated losing, after losing a game like that I'd have to lie down in a darkened room to calm down. There's nothing beating under that badge and it's been like that for ages. When that Dingle got on the pitch at the Turf years ago our lads faced him down, this lot would have run away.

Sat here in later January the world was a fantastic view. No surprise, considering the last few years that we have challenges on the pitch, but that's what happen to clubs from time to time. All managers make mistakes and we are in tough run, but with the young players coming through and some prudent signings and outgoing we should do well next season.

Nail on head mate. Rothwell isn’t a wide player. Mowbray just randomly puts him and others people out there.

Every wide player in the world has defensive responsibilities. I like Rothwell, but if he consistently finds himself robbed down blind alleys and we’re being countered, should we not at least expect the effort to get back?

I don't think either keeper is good enough, but keep either as back up to a new keeper. Both Bell and Williams should be instantly on the chopping board, 2 terrible players. Would keep Lenihan and Nyambe, Mulgrew potentially as a 4th choice centre back, but we need an overhaul in defence as an urgent priority. In midfield, I would sign Rodwell up for an extra year or two solely as a midfielder, Travis is a very good prospect, Reed I would like to get on loan again but I don't think he can be considered a big enough priority to spend a chunk of our budget on. Evans I would keep as a squad player, I think he's had a pretty decent season. Smallwood, Bennett and Conway I would thank and move on, Gladwin I would just move on. In attacking positions, build around Dack, give a new contract if we can. Armstrong, Rothwell, Chapman all can play big parts going forward. Graham still has a huge part to play, otherwise up front we are short. Samuel has got better to some people by not playing and needs discarding, I don't think Nuttall is or will ever be good enough, and Brereton has looked woefully short and I would loan out ideally. So yeah, a big overhaul and one that wont happen!

Surely if you were the manager picking Rothwell, it wouldn’t be for his defensive qualities?

Probably for the best

I’d take Hughes v2019 over Mowbray in a heartbeat. His gravitas would go a long way with Championship players.

Are you Derek Bentley lol?

How is he finished as a centre mid though? He’s a 28 year old professional athlete who trains every day for gods sake. The manager has painted him to be an aged crock and a lot of our fans have bought it. He’s only said that to justify the centre back experiment imo.

There would be as many I'd want to get rid of as want to keep tbh, but replacing all that need to be replaced would be costly..... I think it will take the fabled few transfer windows before we can do that.

Personally to start things off, I would try to get two center-halves, and a left back. Other positions would be nice, but until the defence is sorted it would be a waste of time. Sorry wrong thread.

Rolling Stones - Brown Sugar

Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik

That's too early to give up on life and sit in there.

*Please take out*

Messi has nothing to prove by only having played in Spain. He'd immediately be the best current and also the best ever player in the PL if he ever played here.

My missus is both a lip reader and a Spanish speaker. When Messi notched that hat trick goal last night she swears he said “Estas viendo Stuart?”

Anyone who thinks that would be mad. Probably the same people who say that PSG and Bayern can't win the CL because their league is uncompetitive in terms of a title race. It can't work both ways..... Re. Ruben, I don't think Michael Appleton and Gary Bowyer not knowing what to do with a player with very good technical ability a bit rough round the edges means one league is stronger than the other. You could say that King wasn't good enough for us in the Championship yet he banged in 16 in the PL the other year and probably isn't far off this season. But there are loads of factors that come into play with things like that - such as a quality manager in Hughes (as he was then at least) being able to get the best out of Samba from Hertha Berlin reserves. All world class players play for teams good enough to have other world class players. It would be bizarre if that wasn't the case. So if he moves to Juventus in summer, a team with other world class players who've just won their eighth title in a row and scores say 25+, you'd think more highly of him? He's got zero to prove.

Results. Funnily enough the same measure as Howe.

He needs some competition and an experienced mentor. Leutweiler is a neither, and if our goalkeeping coach was any good he’d still be playing himself - he’s only 28. Only 5 years older than Raya. That’s a novice training a novice! Mowbray’s back room team leaves a lot to be desired.

Dead Kennedys - holiday In Cambodia By the way, I remember Peepers.

Your comment about team selection is a far more objective and fair one. Although the player you have picked out is unfair. I dont discount the fact that Dacks form in the last month or 2 has been below par, but hed made himself the first name on the team sheet prior to that, and his recent run of 6 without a goal was his biggest drought in a Rovers shirt. A goal and an assist in the last 2 take him on to 12 goals and 6 assists in the league which is a more than respectable statistic. Its like with Rhodes; people used to question his inclusion when on a lean spell but hed proven himself consistently before that. There are players that regularly play whose places should be under serious threat far quicker than Dack. I dont understand why you are viewing potential mini breaks as a reward for poor form. Poor results dont discount the fact that the players have played a lot of games since the last break. It makes sense to give the players a bit of a break, im sure a few are carrying knocks that need resting and then get back with plenty of time to go over tactics on the training ground. (Something I am not convinced in Mowbrays ability to do so recently but thats beside the point) I personally dont think that we have been so poor because of a lack of effort either necessarily.

Just a proper coaching team full stop would help including a proper keeper coach, Venus obviously there because he's TMs pal but Lowe & Benson are just cheapo appointments I struggle to see what they bring to it other than stuff straight of the standard FA coaching manual which anyone could do.

But you have missed the point completely. Football clubs at their heart are not businesses, they are not legal entities, they are not even bricks and mortar. They are living entities, with souls. They are not just part of the community, the are the community. If you took away the fans the custodians would have to ditch their asset pretty quickly. People don’t realise the power the actually have. They cling to a stadium or a badge or a shirt or even trophies. Fans hold all the aces but will simply not stick together even when the chips are down. Die hard fans would even walk away rather than support a Phoenix club. This is why I protested and you didn’t. You want the club to survive in whatever form and by whomever runs it - maybe it’s good for sales - I want there to continue be a club that represents this town, ideally Rovers, even a “Blackburn Rovers 2020”. Middlesbrough F(A)C has only been around since 1986 when Gibson came along but everyone still cracks on as though it was formed in 1876 (they even snuck in the change with an update of their badge). Winkleman tried to destroy Wimbledon and it rose from the ashes and returned to league football. Built on blood, sweat and hard work. Football clubs do not “belong” to the incumbent custodians they are merely looking after it on behalf of the local community. Venkys can recruit whichever manager they like, but the choices they make are just as important to the fans as to them - probably more so. If they re-hired Steve Kean that would be me done with “Venkys Rovers” until they left and I suspect a heck of a lot more.

They really just don't get it do they? Put prices up, put season tickets on sale late, shut home areas, move people around, move kick offs away from 3pm, surcharges, database only tickets, red button tv games, dreadful atmosphere at Ewood and mind-numbingly dull football. There you go - I've come up with just 10 reasons why crowds may be poor that could all quickly be reversed by Rovers if they were so bothered about it. Yet here we are, nothing happening, groundhog day stuff. It will be the same dull stuff against Stoke in a few weeks.

Always much lower actual crowds midweek, though the red button has exacerbated it. However, generally what did they actually expect crowds wise? We’ve now around 10,000 season ticket holders, which is at the higher end of sales since 2012, even though they are now considerably more expensive. Personally I think crowds have held up very well considering. We are a lower mid table side in the second division and we’ve suffered a near decade of stagnation, what are they seriously expecting? Nothing has improved on the pitch and in league position in those years, so why should crowds? Especially when there is little in the way of enticing offers, we are consistently months behind pretty much every club getting season tickets on sale and Ewood is a third rate experience that can’t even hold a candle to Accrington fecking Stanley! Frightening how out of touch they are.

Hughes is exactly what Rovers need and I think we are what he needs too. He would certainly change the training/fitness regime. They used to play 100 minute matches in training. Knows the club inside out, Ewood and the training ground. The Venkys element would be the difficult bit as Williams dealt with the owners but I expect he could handle it. One thing’s for sure, if Hughes came in and “did a Lambert” then it would be taken more seriously. If Mowbray was to go now, it’d be the obvious thing to give Johnson the reigns until the end of the season - certainly over Venus or Lowe.

Problem with Mowbray is, in my view, he does has an idealised system of playing in his head but either he doesn’t bring in the right players to fit the system or the ones that do fit he doesn’t trust them. So we just end up as a brittle, cautious mess with little discernible style of play. He likes ‘ball playing centre halves’, but instead of bringing in actual centre halves that can play a bit, he plays converted, weak and/or slow midfielders back there that have little defensive nous. Or he brings in the likes of Rothwell and a plethora of ‘number 10s’, but bottles their selection time and again, so back in goes the likes of Smallwood and Conway. Its obviously becoming a pattern with him, wherever he is.

Really? The lad has had a pretty decent season on the whole and was unplayable not so long ago. There is tons of crap I'd get rid of before I'd consider selling Arma.

The Stranglers - Who Wants the World

Have made my position very clear on this over the months, our demise is no surprise whatsoever to me and I think he needs to go now. This isn't a situation that has just cropped up, it's a complete mess 9 months in the making since TM refused to strengthen the starting eleven in the summer and again to a lesser extent in January. I really struggle with Parson's view that TM "deserves" the chance to bring players in in the summer. He doesn't "deserve" anything, it's due to his negligence that we find ourselves in the situation whereby we're going to have to try and rebuild almost the entire starting eleven in summer whilst being hampered by the fact that a lot of deadwood was rewarded for past performance by being awarded new contracts. Maybe if you'd been relegated and had a complete clear out and come back up with a young hungry side you could give them a chance to see if they they could do it at the higher level. It seems obvious to me that you can't do that when the core of the players you're relying on are either past their best, or got you relegated in the first place, or both. And I hope no-one argues he hasn't been backed, he's wasted or alternatively allowed £7m to be spent on Brereton who he refuses to play and wasted loan fees on the likes of Rothwell and Palmer (both decent players imo) who he presumably won't or wouldnt play because he doesnt want to upset the old guard.

Everyone forgets the elephant in the room. Venkys. We are no-where near a normal run football club with these (still) clueless owners. I hate to think who would replace Tony if he were to leave us. Maybe it's better the devil you know. Don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.