[Archived] Liverpool V Rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Big Phil Scholari, available in the summer according to the papers. If Samba had have blocked off Gerrard he would have straight up the tunnel - he'd already played his get out of jail card in the first half.

[ABBEY]

r v b ...if he aint ready he shouldnt be playing

[RevidgeBlue]

Another person expecting too much I see. Let see he has played so far two matches in the premier league (arguably the best league in the world), against quality opposition (Spurs and Liverpool) in 10 months…

It’s foolish to say he is rubbish when he clearly hasn’t had enough game time to form a proper judgement. I personally would have only introduced him as a sub this season as he has been out for a long time and to gently ease him into the English style of play. But it looks like Hughes has no confidence whatsoever in Moko so he is having to play him.

Give the lad some time for god sake, see how he does next season after a full pre-season under his belt and gets a run of form going before you pass judgement.

Dunn and Reid have generally performed far better than Vogel thus far.

[Gav]

It's not often that I get upset with the team these days, been watching for far too long for that. But today’s performance was bordering on disgraceful; I was embarrassed to call myself a Rovers fan. God knows how the people that went to the game felt........

I'm not going to name names because all of them should hold their heads in shame; it was a pathetic performance especially the first half.

I really do fear for this club of ours, we have no money and can't seem to attract serious investors despite having 3-4 good seasons. With the influx of investment at clubs such as West Ham, Man City, Pompey and Aston Villa we are going to struggle in future season to mount even a top 10 finish unless we get investment to match those clubs. In all seriousness I can see us bottom half of the premiership next season if we don't spend 10-15 million, because we have 3-4 players that just are not good enough at this level, and Bentley will certainly not see 2008 out as a Blackburn Rovers player unless he gets injured.

All in all a dire day and bleak outlook.

[tcj_jones]

Watched the game on Tv today and I didn't actually think we were that bad.

Can't argue with the fact that we deserved to lose on the balance of play as it panned out but the absolute futility of playing one of the "big four" at home was shown today.

We scored a perfectly legitimate goal early on if you apply Hackett's PIG guidelines which was scrubbed out.

Then, later on (which could well have been 1-1) Skirtle should clearly have been sent off for bringing down Roberts as the last man but got a yellow.

All that aside we conceded two bad goals, for the first Santa Cruz needlessly gave the ball away in a danger area then Samba should have flattened Gerrard and taken a yellow.

Second goal, Nelsen made a terrible pass leading to the second.

Another completely anonymous perfoprmance from Vogel. Two games and he has brought nothing whatsoever to the table.

I'm honestly dumbfounded at your interpretation of the game.

Every single time we had the ball, we gave it away or got caught in possession. Our passing was atrocious and we created precious few chances. The number of individual mistakes today was huge. The first two goals were both the result of giving the ball away badly.

I don't think we've played so badly since we lost 1-0 to Watford in the 93rd minute at Vicerage Road last season.

Technically, Roberts goal was legitimate, but once the whistle had been blown, their last defender stood still, as did Reina, who barely held out a foot. Roberts strike would have been easy for Reina to save. If play had have continued, Roberts might have shot brilliantly, Reina might have saved brilliantly, but it wasn't a certain goal.

Furthermore, Samba's barge on Gerrard was nothing but a certain red card as he was last man and clearly floored him. Friedel also clipped Gerrard and, while he wouldn't have scored, while he was looking for the penalty and while it would have been harsh on Friedel, that would have been given as a penalty more often than not. We got lucky there too.

As for Vogel, well that's the first I've seen of him and he was pretty anonymous and got caught in possession far too often. However, he is finding his feet after 10 months out and is adapting to the English game, so I will reserve judgement for now.

[yellowsubmarine]

Steven Reid - 4 (He told us that he is not DMC before, and he told us that he is not MR either in this match)

He was pure crap today. He's only good at passing the ball backwards. Wait a minute, he sucked at that as well.

So ###### with everyone today.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Dunn and Reid have generally performed far better than Vogel thus far.

They have played far more games than Vogel has. Vogel came in the last two games because Dunny was carrying an injury. Hughes probably didn't want to start Vogel this season and use him as a sub, but he obviosuly felt he had no choice but to play him rather than use Moko.

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm honestly dumbfounded at your interpretation of the game.

Technically, Roberts goal was legitimate, but once the whistle had been blown, their last defender stood still, as did Reina, who barely held out a foot. Roberts strike would have been easy for Reina to save. If play had have continued, Roberts might have shot brilliantly, Reina might have saved brilliantly, but it wasn't a certain goal.

What the hell has that got to do with anything, according to the supposedly correct interpretation of the new rules Roberts was clearly onside and Reina should have played to the whistle.

[tcj_jones]

But Reina did play to the whistle - he stopped when it was blown. If he hadn't, then he would almost certainly have saved Roberts pretty poor shot.

The implication behind your post was that we were unlucky in the match, but you forget about Samba's red card that wasn't and the penalty that probably should have been given. Quite a few other decisions went our way today as well.

If play had have continued and then brought back after the goal was scored, then I'd be inclined to agree that we were very unlucky, at least with the Roberts disallowed goal.

[ABBEY]

the first goal should of been a goal kick to us when the ball went over the line

[RevidgeBlue]

In all seriousness I can see us bottom half of the premiership next season if we don't spend 10-15 million,

It's not bottom half of the Premiership we need to worry about Gav, we're only two places off that already, it's the possibility of bottom "three" next season we need to worry about imo.

Whilst I didn't think we were that bad today I think we've been extremely poor overall since we collected 21 points from the opening ten games by the end of October.

Imo the cigars have been out since then knowing realistically Premiership status (and salaries) were assured for another 12 months.

I think we need a reasonable influx of cash in the summer and a decent shake up so that the players can't take things so much for granted.

[Parsonblue]

I don't believe that you can judge Vogel on the two games he has played so far. At least he looks neat and tidy in possession and today he tried to pass to a player in a blue and white shirt unlike many of his colleagues.

If we are serious about maintaining a place in the top half of the Premiership we have to improve the quality of our midfield. Reid, Dunn and Pedersen are not a combination that will help us win too many matches. We lack drive, pace and creativity. Our build up play is so slow and predictable. Gerrard was head and shoulders above anything we have in midfield - Bentley included.

I also feel the time has come for Samba and Nelsen to be left out in favour of Ooijer and Zurab in the centre of defence. Samba makes far too many mistakes with his decision making and Nelsen's distribution is poor.

Today we lost two goals because Santa Cruz and Nelsen made a hash of passing the ball. The continual loss of possession through poor passing has been a major weakness this season. We aren't good at creating goalscoring opportunites and so we can't afford to give silly goals away through careless distribution.

We need to strengthen both the quality and the numbers in our senior squad if we are to maintain our position in the top half of the Premier League. Sadly, I don't think the rumoured £10 million that Hughes may have available to him will be sufficient to get the job done. The manager can't keep being expected to work miracles in the transfer market.

[RevidgeBlue]

The implication behind your post was that we were unlucky in the match, but you forget about Samba's red card that wasn't and the penalty that probably should have been given. Quite a few other decisions went our way today as well.

As I said in my post, I don't disagree with the fact that that we deserved to lose as it stood, but had Roberts' goal correctly been given, (0-1) and/or Skirtle had been correctly sent off (at 1-1?) things would probably have been completely different.

[Scotty]

I couldn't believe the team Hughes picked today. Liverpool's strength is in midfield, where they play 5 men using two holding players, wide men who frequently drift inside to supplement the central areas, and Gerrard who plays a free role behind Torres. So it was a bit of a surprise that we chose this game to play our weakest central midfield pairing of the season. If ever a game was crying out for Mokoena to sit in front of our back four it was this one. Gerrard had the freedom of the park.

However, it's still possible to beat a team with a much stronger midfiled by by-passing them. We could either play with width and try to go round them or we could play it long and try to go over them. We did neither. The ridiculous decision to play Bentley in the middle meant that we tried to play everything through the middle, and Liverpool just picked us off and dominated the pattern of play throughout the whole match.

Only Roberts stood out for me as playing anything like his potential. The rest were at best average or at worst shocking. Santa Cruz, cracking late goal aside, put in his worst performance of the season. Reid and Vogel were just embarrassing. Samba looked like an accident waiting to happen from the first minute to last. God knows what Ooijer must be thinking sat on the bench. Bentley was crowded out of things and didn't get the time or space he needed to influence the game.

Most worrying of all though was the lack of drive and urgency that has characterised our play under Hughes. We were slow to close players down and lost most of the individual battles on the pitch. It's not a new thing though, we've been like this for a while now. The team look jaded, they seem to lack desire, and too many individuals aren't playing to the form we know they can.

It's hard to look at the bigger picture after a display like today's, but we really should. A top half of the table finish for a club with our resources is a fantastic achievement. However, I can't help wondering what might have been given the form we showed in the first third of the season. Europe's gone now I think, and Hughes has got a big job in the summer to pick the team up and continue the overall improvement we've shown under his management.

[RevidgeBlue]

Santa Cruz, cracking late goal aside, put in his worst performance of the season. Reid and Vogel were just embarrassing.

Got to say I thought both Santa Cruz and Roberts did extremely well today given the paucity of the service to them.

[Scotty]

Got to say I thought both Santa Cruz and Roberts did extremely well today given the paucity of the service to them.

One of Santa Cruz's biggest strengths is the way he retains possession. Today I thought everything bounced off him, and his inability to keep the ball also cost us a goal.

[John]

I know it is his style to a degree, but Santa has looked jaded in recent weeks. Understandable, considering his track record with injuries.

The worrying aspect for me is that certain players form has been poor for a while now, and the team has not performed well for a number of months.

Considering we have been relatively lucky with major injuries to our key players (unlike last season), we cannot even use that as an excuse. However, you can look at those who were injured badly last season (Reid & Nelsen), and say they have not come back the same players (yet).

[allanncd]

Completely agree with the last post. A relegation struggle often follows the sort of indifferent/poor end second half season such as this. The poor home form with all but the worst opponents able to take points away from Ewood is another ill-omen as the away form is unlikely to be maintained indefinitely (and certainly not on performances of recent away games). There is just no pace or invention in the team. Reid and Ped do nothing but pass backwards or sideways. Samba defends on the seat of his pants - continually making desperate lunges at ball or opponent because he gets so woefully out of position -usually wrong side. Nelson though better than before his enforced rest still looks nothing like the player of 2 years ago. Take Bentley and Santa's goals out of this team and the prospects are frightening.

[iamarover]

One of Santa Cruz's biggest strengths is the way he retains possession. Today I thought everything bounced off him, and his inability to keep the ball also cost us a goal.

Let's face facts. The front two did Ok but was very difficult to judge their true performance given the appalling support from midfield. That said, Roberts looks increasingly like a poor mans Nathan Blake. The flop in front of the goal was an embarrassing humdinger. Still worse when he pleaded for a booking.

Leaving aside the front - we almost have an embarrassment of riches relative to the rest of the team - in midfield we were and have been for some time a disaster. Reid is not fit, and will never ever ever be a right sided wide man anyway in any 4 4 2 system. What the feck was Hughes thinking of? Playing Bentley inside for about the third time of his life against the best defensively organised midfield in Europe was myopically misplaced.

Vogel looked about 12 months off the pace which about correlates with his absence from top flight football. Why was he not replaced at half time after being overrun more times than a Scouser minutes silence call?

Agree with Rev that next year looms .... If Moyes leaves for Celtic then expect Hughes to take the A59 out of Blackburn. And take very few people with him

Will be back tomorrow with thoughts on regeneration but for me this is a terrible time for us.

[Gav]

Scotty sums things up very well I feel:

It's hard to look at the bigger picture after a display like todays, but we really should. A top half of the table finish for a club with our resources is a fantastic achievement. However, I can't help wondering what might have been given the form we showed in the first third of the season. Europe's gone now I think, and Hughes has got a big job in the summer to pick the team up and continue the overall improvement we've shown under his management.

I think you've got to judge Vogel next season because the lad hasn't played for months, which begs the question, why the hell is Hughes playing him instead of Mokoena?

Whilst I don't agree with Rev's interpretation of what was on display today, I hold the same fears for next season. The brand that is Blackburn Rovers losing what attraction is has currently, which to be honest doesn't seem that much, will be disastrous for the club in the long term.

It needs sorting out and soon.

[Grabbi Graeme]

For Rev and everyone else who seems to think that this is the end.

HELP

[grizfoot]

I'm not saying we deserved anything from the game because we didn't we were absolutley rubbish, worst performance of the season by far (just beats the 'display' against Sunderland in January).

But the referee should have booked Gerrard at least and Skrtel could have been easily sent off. Two clear dives from Gerrard, no yellow though? disgraceful if you ask me, if that was a foreign player doing it I bet the commentators would have been having a right go at the player but because it's Gerrard they won't. Remember the dive against Sheffield United and the one when he was playing for England.

As for Skrtel a nasty challenge in the first half right on Reidy's ankle studs showing as well! No yellow again. Then in the second half he clearly pulled back Roberts when he was the last man so in conclusion he was very lucky to stay on the pitch. To be fair the ref was constantly poor for and against both teams but still.

The sky commentators were also awful, Alan Smith in particular is a right plonker and obviously as something against. As I said worst performance of the seaosn was embrassing to watch at times, Bentley didn't do himself any favours infront of Mr.Capello. Then again may be better if his form tails of a little towards the end of the season, may mean we have a greater chance of keeping him.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Rovers a 'Jaded/tired side????????? when you compare the amount of games played in comparison to Liverpool and other top sides it really makes you wonder how this can be suggested.Disastrous early exits in Europe and the domestic cups has seen us play many games less in comparison.

Liverpool had played in a high tempo Championsleague quater final midweek....Rovers came a very poor second today in all areas!

Awful 'Rovers mode' again for long periods of our play......square across midfield then back,square across midfield then back

[Blackpool_Rover]

What an awful day. Such a disapointing end to our season that. This is a million miles away from the attitude and desire shown in the last 3 years under hughes. It seems to me that ever since he was linked with the newcastle job the morale and desire has gone. There needs to be a serious shake up in summer. Performances from certain individuals today was unacceptable. Samba was absolutely shocking and i cannot begin to understand why Zurab is being ignored. Steven Reid, to me, looks like someone who i very low on confidence, all he does is run in a straight line until he gets nudged then fals over. If he has space he passes backwards.

Warnock did well today and a good goal from santa. Thats it.

[philipl]

Hmm..

Wasn't too downcast until I read this thread.

OK we've just been beaten 3-1 by the team which could well be this season's European Champions. Yes, I know that's a big change of tune on my previous assessment of Liverpool but Benitez has finally worked out a system that works and is playing his footballers to their strengths within it.

The aspect which has separated Top 4 from the rest this season isn't so much the megastars as their fantastic workrate, closing down, tackling then retaining posession in the middle of the park. Other than drawing 1-1 with Arsenal at the start of the season we've not been at the races in any of these fixtures so far this season. But when you look at the results, neither have most of the rest of Everton, Pompey, Villa and City (other than City's derby double).

The defeat was down to two awful passes- RSC's for 1-0 and Nelsen's for 2-0. We simply cannot make those mistakes so close to goal and not be punished by a Top 4 team. Other than that, Rovers had pretty well held the line for 60 minutes despite looking lethargic and inaccurate in the centre of the pitch and generally incapable of keeping posession which we have been pretty OK with until recently.

Both sides benefitted from lenient refereeing to be honest but the lino didn't know his PIG in the first minutes. Could have been a very different story, not least in terms of self-belief that we could win it which all too plainly, we did not.