[Archived] Bowyer

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Firstly - I would personally play Cairney more centrally - however for all those digging at Lowe and GB's tactics - how did we play in the first half ? With our two defensive midfield players did we create chances or not ? With that terrible sub-standard Lowe playing I am amazed that we have won any matches at all this season. Yet again people pick on the bits they want - i.e. the second half when we played poorly - or the Leeds match when Lowe didn't play. They ignore the fact that with Lowe in the team our general play is getting better and better - that Cairney had a wonderful match against City from wide right - oh and by the way - who were our midfield players against City ?

[OJRovers]

We don't know what GB is thinking for when he has all the midfielders available to pick from. I think Taylor was a late withdrawal on Saturday through injury, so maybe he had to play Cairney there because of that? I'd like a 5 man midfield of Taylor/Evans/Cairney/Dunn/Marshall. I think we'd create a lot of chances for Rhodes.

[jim mk2]

I'm not sure how anyone can compare Cairney to Tugay. It's like saying Keith Gillespie was as good as Bryan Douglas. The former in both cases don't deserve to be in the same sentence. I wish people would lay off Lowe - he's a good solid player whose going to be in the team for the foreseeable future. We all have our favourites but criticising him for the sake of it as some are doing is unfair and nonsensical.

[Darwen Rover 007]

I think out strongest formation is to start with

4-2-3-1 with two holding midfielders and Marshall / Cairney / Taylor In front of them and then possibly move to a 4-4-1-1 or 442 with the options we have dependent on the game..

Pretty much everyone can see cairney is wasted out wide.. The point is when he is CM he is great defensively for the team as he keeps possession has a calming influence of control which is massive when the pressure is on!

[Amo]

I'm not sure how anyone can compare Cairney to Tugay. It's like saying Keith Gillespie was as good as Bryan Douglas. The former in both cases don't deserve to be in the same sentence. I wish people would lay off Lowe - he's a good solid player whose going to be in the team for the foreseeable future. We all have our favourites but criticising him for the sake of it as some are doing is unfair and nonsensical.

More strawman arguments. No one's saying Cairney is as good as Tugay, but they're similar players. Both sit deep, keep the ball well and can spread the play. What you should be arguing is whether Bowyer is justified in playing that sort of player out on the wing instead of his natural position. If you can't do that, then sit this one out.

[Kamy100]

This is a very difficult one.

I firmly believe that Cairney is totally wasted outwide, he is the one genuine technically gifted player that we have and we have to get him on the ball as much as possible. When he is played out wide, we just don't get enough of the ball to him and therefore he becomes less effective. He hasn't done it yet, but in the middle he has the ability to control games, particularly against teams who come to Ewood to sit deep. However, I also think that Lowe is a good player. He does a lot of work off the ball which goes unoticed. As others have said, Gary knows his strengths better than anyone else and feels that he has to be in the team due to the way he wants to set us up in a defensive sense.

So it is a difficult one. It was great to win yesterday, but I think that Gary was overly cautious yesterday by playing Lowe and Williamson. He needs to be a bit braver at home against weaker sides. In the second half Lowe/Williamson dropped deeper and deeper. this allowed Doncaster to push forward and dominate us, felt that if Cairney has been in the middle during the second half then maybe we may have gained a bit of control with his ability to retain possession.

However, we are now on the right track. I am sure that over the next few months Gary will tweak his approach to get the balance right between attacking and defence. At least we now play as a team which is a darn sight better than what we have seen over the last 3 years.

[jim mk2]

More strawman arguments. No one's saying Cairney is as good as Tugay, but they're similar players. Both sit deep, keep the ball well and can spread the play. What you should be arguing is whether Bowyer is justified in playing that sort of player out on the wing instead of his natural position. If you can't do that, then sit this one out.

I've seen Cairney have good games on the wing and play poorly in the middle and vice versa.

Can I stand up now ?

[sweeneybrfc]

If you fail to see why playing two defensive midfielders at home is damaging look no further than the Birmingham game and the impact Gestede coming on for Williamson had on the overall game in the second half.

It was fustrating seeing that we were making problems for ourselves by sticking with this again against Doncaster at the weekend.

One Jason Lowe is enough.

[Parsonblue]

A lot of words there, Parson, but they're still conveniently ignoring the issue. Cairney is someone in the Tugay mould. Obviously nowhere near the Turkish Delight's level but cut from the same cloth. Would you have advocated sticking Tugay out on the wing, where he's no good to anyone, in order to play Flitcroft and Savage together? Bowyer obviously feels this is his best eleven, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that he's hindering one of our best players, and therefore the team, with his selection policy.

I was brought up watching Bryan Douglas - the best player I have ever seen wear the shirt. He could play on the wing or inside-forward and wherever he played he ran the game. To say Bowyer is hindering one of our best players is nonsense and very subjective. You may feel Cairney is one of our best players but Gary may very well think Lowe is one of our best players and hence his decision to put him in the position that Gary thinks is his strongest. Good players can control a game from whichever position they are played in midfield. He clearly bought Cairney to fulfil a role. It might not be the role you want him to play but it is clearly the one that Gary wants him to play. At the end of the day the manager is paid to make decisions and so far results have shown that he seems to know what he is doing.

[West Yorks Rover]

The question has to be asked, why did he buy Cairney to play him out of position, when

he could have spent the money on a proper winger ?

[Bucksrover]

The return of evans may remove the problem. He has creative as well as destructive abilities, so as long as he replaces one of the two advanced centre backs, bowyer may get away with not having to realise what is obvious to most.

Cairney out wide was a waste against doncaster - he has the ability to run a game from the middle. Williamson is very poor in my opinion - slow, weak at tackling. Although I hear he was good at leeds away - which i did not see.

The lowe and williamson selection pushing cairney out wide is the one area bowyer lets himself down in my opinion.

[roversR4ever]

I haven't had as much time to post recently.

I'm going to trust Bowyers judgement. Its seems to me increasingly that he's a good judge of players. Evans was looking good until injury and when he returns we add to the squad. Taylor has looked much better recently. Marshall who I will admit I had doubts about really does look the part.

Gestede looks like he's a good spot as well.

Lowe and Williamson are in my view playing well.

Robo in goal looks a step up.

There is no doubt as the weeks go by we are getting better and stronger.

We look capable of grinding out a result as well as dominating games.

It now looks a good squad with lots of genuine options.

There really is a chance of play offs.

It wasn't so long ago I believed we really badly needed Rochina. I've changed or more accurately Bowyer has changed my mind.

I've left Cairney to last. He plays well wide is class in center. I'd like to see him more in the middle but I can understand Bowyer. The thing is he's not as good as Tugay at controlling a game and neither do we have a DM as good as Savage.

We do have lots of options now. I'm trying not to be too positive but its looking so much better.

Next two League games will tell us a lot.

[Parsonblue]

The question has to be asked, why did he buy Cairney to play him out of position, when

he could have spent the money on a proper winger ?

He didn't buy him to play as a traditional winger but as a creative player who can cut inside in much the same way that Marshall does. Both players seem to have to freedom to move away from the wings and into the centre to support the attack. I wouldn't describe either as a winger in the traditional sense of the word. Cairney himself has said he can play out wide or in the centre so the position isn't new to him. I fully expect Evans to join Lowe in the centre when fit and with Cairney and Marshall that is a very attacking midfield.

[LDRover]

This is a very difficult one.

I firmly believe that Cairney is totally wasted outwide, he is the one genuine technically gifted player that we have and we have to get him on the ball as much as possible. When he is played out wide, we just don't get enough of the ball to him and therefore he becomes less effective. He hasn't done it yet, but in the middle he has the ability to control games, particularly against teams who come to Ewood to sit deep. However, I also think that Lowe is a good player. He does a lot

So it is a difficult one. It was great to win yesterday, but I think that Gary was overly cautious yesterday by playing Lowe and Williamson. He needs to be a bit braver at home against weaker sides. In the second half Lowe/Williamson dropped deeper and deeper. this allowed Doncaster to push forward and dominate us, felt that if Cairney has been in the middle during the second half then maybe we may have gained a bit of control with his ability to retain possession.

Thus pretty much nails it for me.

The reason that it is deemed that Lowe is playing okay is because of his workrate when we don't gave the ball. However, for me, his inclusion in the side ensures that we struggle to retain the ball when we do have it.

Get Cairney in the middle who, not only retains the ball but drives us forward with it. Net result is that the opposition have to work harder to get the ball back and we hold the initiative rather than surrendering it by dropping deep.

[roversR4ever]

Parson can't help but agree with you. Marshall and Cairney do have freedom to come inside. Evans will add more in an attacking sense alongside Lowe.

[thenodrog]

No problem with Lowe. It's the fact that Bowyer opts for TWO defensive midfielders at home against the league's weaker sides. There's no point in playing Lowe AND Williamson. Neither complements the other.

That's as may be but earlier in the season for some reason we were vulnerable to leaking quite a few goals with opponents being given free shots from the edge or just outside our pen area. Burnley being the obvious one, Brum too but there were quite a few more. Two DM's will help prevent that but by definition will weaken attacking options. 'Build from the back' is still the blueprint for success.

[thenodrog]

I'm not sure how anyone can compare Cairney to Tugay. It's like saying Keith Gillespie was as good as Bryan Douglas. The former in both cases don't deserve to be in the same sentence. I wish people would lay off Lowe - he's a good solid player whose going to be in the team for the foreseeable future. We all have our favourites but criticising him for the sake of it as some are doing is unfair and nonsensical.

It's only by folk who have never kicked a ball in anger and whose experience of football is in the form of some pub fantasy football competition or even worse play station game. Unfortunately the virus they have is contagious.

[Mike E]

I get the feeling that once Evans is back, we'll tend to have Lowe sat in front of defence with Evans, Cairney and Marshall having freedom of movement behind the front pairing.

[thenodrog]

He didn't buy him to play as a traditional winger but as a creative player who can cut inside in much the same way that Marshall does. Both players seem to have to freedom to move away from the wings and into the centre to support the attack. I wouldn't describe either as a winger in the traditional sense of the word. Cairney himself has said he can play out wide or in the centre so the position isn't new to him. I fully expect Evans to join Lowe in the centre when fit and with Cairney and Marshall that is a very attacking midfield.

Donny match was the first match for some time that our wingers haven't swapped about..... just a point.

[USABlue]

Wholeheartedly agree with this

Its absolutely baffling me as to why Bowyer keeps shunting Cairney out wide to accommodate Williamson and Lowe into central midfield

Its like Man Utd putting Scholes on the wing so they can play Butt and Sharpe as their CMs

Our best, most creative midfielder is being kept out of games on the wing. Bowyer's defensive mindset at home is puzzling, considering how poor our away form is. I can understand defensive play away, but not at Ewood against teams like Donny and Shef Wed.

You know before the season started I predicted us to start slowly and make a late surge into the playoffs (I was accused of being on drugs for this). I am havimg a hard time now due to Bowyers stubborness. I feel he is actually holding us back some now, not allowing us to reach our full potential. I expected mistakes even disasters bit can some one give me one good footballing reason why GB perseveres with this. Lordy lordy what will he do when Evans is fit (seems to be taking longer than anticipated) I like GB but I wish he could explain his reasoning.

I would have thought the reason is fairly simple. Gary really rates Lowe end of story. Jason will always get the nod because the manager trusts and believes in him. He is a player that Gary has helped develop from Under-18's to become an England Under-21 international. Gary has total faith in him. Cairney is, perhaps not the greatest tackler to be playing in the centre. Out wide he can enjoy a bit more time and space on the ball. He did well in the first half yesterday but then faded. Williamson is the one who does the dirty work in midfield and that is something Cairney can't do. Cairney is a playmaker and Gary clearly wants two holding midfield men with the likes of Cairney and Marshall operating further forward. I've no doubt that when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre rather than Williamson.

Personally, I don't have a problem with is team selections as I think building on a solid defensive platform is the way to go. I'd much rather a dire 1-0 win and than lose an exciting 3-4 thriller.

What about winning said 4-3 thriller.

[The Gull]

Seems a bit harsh to give Bowyer stick after we have kept a few clean sheets, previously extremely rare, and only lost twice in 10 games.

Interesting to me is the fact that against Premier League opposition where you would have forgiven Bowyer for parking the bus he went fairly attacking, maybe he, like many, realises that you need to play a different kind of football in the Championship, much more of a battle. Let the two defensive midfielders do their bit and break play up and give the ball to the four attacking players, plus two attacking full backs, to do the damage and minimise the damage done top us. Make sense, no?

Living in Dubai now I don't get to see much of Rovers but the commentary I see on the game from Saturday mentions both Lowe and Willaimson in attacking positions, hitting a few shots, this is quite common for Lowe yet he is seen as a one trick pony by a lot as if he doesn't pass the half way line.

Football is about results and you can't argue that we have not been getting them of late, in some very tricky games as well.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

If you fail to see why playing two defensive midfielders at home is damaging look no further than the Birmingham game and the impact Gestede coming on for Williamson had on the overall game in the second half.

It was fustrating seeing that we were making problems for ourselves by sticking with this again against Doncaster at the weekend.

One Jason Lowe is enough.

Looking at the Birmingham game - other than a couple of individual mistakes we played brilliantly in the first half. Indeed our football was more incisive and controlled than in the second half. Birmingham had numerous chances in the second half - that if they had taken nobody would be taking about our two goals.

[Jimmy612]

Looking at the Birmingham game - other than a couple of individual mistakes we played brilliantly in the first half. Indeed our football was more incisive and controlled than in the second half. Birmingham had numerous chances in the second half - that if they had taken nobody would be taking about our two goals.

I agree and said this on the day. That first half hour we absolutely murdered Birmingham and found ourselves 3-0 down.

The second half Birmingham obviously dropped into a 'what we have we hold' mentality. I said to a mate after about 65mins that we didn't look like breaking them down. We looked short of a killer pass and whilst maintaining possession, it felt like they were more than happy for us to have it.

I'm still convinced we played better in that first half than the second.

[Roverthechimp]

Small margins - Bowyer is being criticised unfairly in my opinion (seems obligatory to need to say that these days...). Lesser teams come to Ewood to look for a draw by packing the midfield. If we play 1 DM and 5 attacking midfielders then we are vulnerable. Ahh but offence is the best form of defence is the cry - problem is that out of a total of 50 attempts on goal in the sheff wed, birmingham and doncaster games we have managed a total of 3 goals (5 from over 60 attempts if including Leeds away).

The argument can be made that lies, lies and damned lies but i would argue that we are actually creating enough chances but not taking them to "kill off" games. It is also worth remembering that there are always two teams on a pitch and both sides can shift formations and tactics to negate or outmaneuver the opposition - despite the criticism i think Bowyer has done this very well doing the last month or so with everything from 442 to 4231 being deployed. Sometimes the results have been disappointing but the overall progress in terms of the team/squad in the last 12 months is outstanding.

[FGS5635]

People want a strike partner to help feed rhodes, but they also want a now 4 man midfield to dominate 5 man midfields. We cant have it all and there has to be some acceptance of give and take. Cairney had more of the ball than any other rovers player in that 1st half. Could and should have had 2 goals. he barely gets the ball wide. Im not sure him being out wide is that big of an issue. He's certainly harder for the opposition to pick up as he drifts inside. Said it in the match day thread, but for me the key to this working even better is henley over lapping in to the space cairney vacates. For some reason be it instruction or lack of confidence he seems very reluctant to do it. Once evans returns this has the makings of a very good all around midfield. Becomes even better if we can encourage henley to attack