Manager or Players to blame?

[Husky]

32 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

"We could have played until next week and not scored a goal, the creativity was really poor and the movement of the players at the top end of the pitch was really poor. We can’t keep a clean sheet every week and scrape a win, we have to be a better football team than that and we weren’t.  I thought the defence got bullied a little bit, their strikers gave us problems and we didn’t give them any. Ultimately we got what we deserved" - Mowbray

This is a quote from the LT article in the first post of this thread. It's amazing how little the team has changed in 18 months - apart from the fact we never keep a clean sheet anymore. 

 

 

 

 

There's really nothing like like seeing the date there in black and white to make it really hit home.

One wonders if we'll be revisiting this thread again in 2020.

[Rogerb]

17 minutes ago, Husky said:

There's really nothing like like seeing the date there in black and white to make it really hit home.

One wonders if we'll be revisiting this thread again in 2020.

Think there is every chance for October 2019 at the mo.

[K-Hod]

The players aren’t completely without blame, but it’s definitely more the manager.

The players can’t help it if they’re terrible, Mowbray doesn’t have to pick them. 

 

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

The players aren’t completely without blame, but it’s definitely more the manager.

The players can’t help it if they’re terrible, Mowbray doesn’t have to pick them. 

 

Sadly in the vast majority of positions he does because he's failed to sign anybody worthy of taking there places.

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Sadly in the vast majority of positions he does because he's failed to sign anybody worthy of taking there places.

I'm coming up to see family, friends and the Stoke and Derby matches next month, shall I bring my boots? ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, DeeCee said:

I'm coming up to see family, friends and the Stoke and Derby matches next month, shall I bring my boots? ?

Never mind the boots, can you head the bloody thing ?

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, DeeCee said:

I'm coming up to see family, friends and the Stoke and Derby matches next month, shall I bring my boots? ?

Which position do you play ? When Tony asks don't tell him. You might get shoe horned into your preferred position that way . Tony's tombola. May the odds forever be in your favor?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

Which position do you play ? When Tony asks don't tell him. You might get shoe horned into your preferred position that way . Tony's tombola. May the odds forever be in your favor?

Tell him you play scrum half, you might get a game at centre half then.

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

I'm coming up to see family, friends and the Stoke and Derby matches next month, shall I bring my boots? ?

Yes.

[DeeCee]

Only joking, not got boots any more, only an old pair of Sambas ? reckon I'm still better than Williams though.

[Reedy You're A Star]

We could do with a pair of Sambas right about now! And a Nelsen.

[Oldgregg86]

And few packs of biscuits. If he's eating he can't be talking shite to the telegraph

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, DeeCee said:

Only joking, not got boots any more, only an old pair of Sambas ? reckon I'm still better than Williams though.

Nice trainers, I always preferred Puma to be honest.

[benhben]

Manager and no one else. He has had numerous transfer windows and failed to sign anyone bar Dack that has improved us and without any plan or squad balance. Wasted £7m on a guy who is now behind Nuttall in the pecking order.

Time to move on....id even like to see D. Johnson given the role until the end of season. Cant be any worse. 

[john.leigh]

Players or Manager to blame?

It’s never so binary is it?

’it’s a poor workman that blames his tools’ vs. ‘give me the tools and I’ll do the Job’

There’s a bit of truth in both.

Personally I like the stability that Tony Mowbray has brought to the club and think he has played a major role in restoring pride.

I think it would be foolish and impetuous to get rid of him.

For every piece of Arte there needs will always be lots of Labore required.

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, benhben said:

Manager and no one else. He has had numerous transfer windows and failed to sign anyone bar Dack that has improved us and without any plan or squad balance. Wasted £7m on a guy who is now behind Nuttall in the pecking order.

Time to move on....id even like to see D. Johnson given the role until the end of season. Cant be any worse. 

Absolute cop out letting the players off scott free 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Absolute cop out letting the players off scott free 

The players are undoubtedly part of the problem but the reason that Mowbray takes the blame is the length of his tenure here and the resources and time hes had to rectify these issues.

Its ok slagging off our defenders for example for not being willing and able to head balls away into the box but how have we manufactured a situation whereby we only have 2 centre backs, both of whom are injury prone and even one of those 2 in Mulgrew is not someone who is best at dealing with aeriel balls. Any manager would struggle with this so called set of defenders. He had 10m in the summer and signed 7 players, none of them natural defenders. If Mowbray had just inherited them then he would have an excuse.

There is absolutely no excuse for us having such an imbalanced squad at this point in his reign. Both the quality and balance of his recruitment has not been good enough and at the monent we are really feeling that. 

That may appear to be a "cop out" but at this point in his tenure the blame falls with Mowbray.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The players are undoubtedly part of the problem but the reason that Mowbray takes the blame is the length of his tenure here and the resources and time hes had to rectify these issues.

Its ok slagging off our defenders for example for not being willing and able to head balls away into the box but how have we manufactured a situation whereby we only have 2 centre backs, both of whom are injury prone and even one of those 2 in Mulgrew is not someone who is best at dealing with aeriel balls. Any manager would struggle with this so called set of defenders. He had 10m in the summer and signed 7 players, none of them natural defenders. If Mowbray had just inherited them then he would have an excuse.

There is absolutely no excuse for us having such an imbalanced squad at this point in his reign. Both the quality and balance of his recruitment has not been good enough and at the monent we are really feeling that. 

That may appear to be a "cop out" but at this point in his tenure the blame falls with Mowbray.

It firmly falls with him, but you can't absolve the players of blame here completely.  Mulgrew and Dacks form has drastically slipped and you could add any number of others into that category. 

I can understand why the likes of Rothwell and Brereton would be frustrated, but Mowbrays favorites, lets call them Mowbrays mob, have let him and us down big time since January. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[tomphil]

Mulgrew expected to miss both games before INTERNATIONAL break, I wonder if he'll be fit for them ?

  Seasons over Charlie boy have a rest and get fit for your Country ?  We'll be watching this one closely and i'll be surprised if Evans isn't rested as well at some point.

[Amo]

I always find it strange how fans can see the blindingly obvious, like players being played out of position or who should/ shouldn't be playing, but the manager can't. Mowbray's been around the block, he's an experienced gaffer, so why does he keep shoving square pegs into round holes? 

[tomphil]

I think it's simple really he operates like Bowyer he's comes across as a pally manager and his first and foremost intention is to look after the players and try and keep them all happy. Ex players know how frustrating it is for pros to keep training all week but not get in the team so it seems some create openings for them where they can and try and keep them involved alongside keeping their favs and their signings the main stays even if they to have to be shoe horned in.

Then as well there are younger players to blend in and maybe a signing or two you might have to play even if you don't want to.....

All the complexities of modern day management and pampered players with a multitude of agents on your case so not easy and nothing wrong with keeping a happy ship but not if it is detrimental to the clubs progress.  Consider others like Dyche for example or Big Sam who put results first , perfomances and players feelings a distinct second yet they continue to keep their clubs punching above their weight.

It is all fine if you want your club plodding in midtable safety whilst it cuts it's c;loth more accordingly and as ownership your manager maybe conjurs up a player or two who'll bring in 20 mill combined in summer to cover recent running costs and keep your agent friends happy with their cut.  If you were an owner absent owner with not much time or interest it sounds like a dream ticket to me it's the model they've wanted all along after relegation from the Prem ruined the original idea's.

[benhben]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Absolute cop out letting the players off scott free 

A number of the players simply arent good enough at championship level. You can graft and work hard yes and it may get you points in some games, but you cant spend an entire season on that tactic. Fundamentally they arent good enough. Many of them were here last time we were relegated and the team at the moment is no different to the one in league 1. It has been the managers decision to either not replace them or he has bought badly resulting in half the team being played out of position. Also letting all our centre backs leave on loan without any cover was a diabolical decision and pretty much sums up his lack of a plan. 

The players have stopped grafting to the levels of earlier in the season so I will concede that...but I struggle to blame a player who just doesnt have the ability. I blame the manager for not having a plan of squad improvement. 

 

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The players are undoubtedly part of the problem but the reason that Mowbray takes the blame is the length of his tenure here and the resources and time hes had to rectify these issues.

Its ok slagging off our defenders for example for not being willing and able to head balls away into the box but how have we manufactured a situation whereby we only have 2 centre backs, both of whom are injury prone and even one of those 2 in Mulgrew is not someone who is best at dealing with aeriel balls. Any manager would struggle with this so called set of defenders. He had 10m in the summer and signed 7 players, none of them natural defenders. If Mowbray had just inherited them then he would have an excuse.

There is absolutely no excuse for us having such an imbalanced squad at this point in his reign. Both the quality and balance of his recruitment has not been good enough and at the monent we are really feeling that. 

That may appear to be a "cop out" but at this point in his tenure the blame falls with Mowbray.

Totally agree

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Both Manager and Players to blame for our current problems.

Not enough ARTE ET LABORE shown by the players.

Not enough tactical nous or accountability shown by Manager.

A General Malaise I do believe..'total commitment'?

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[JacknOry]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Both Manager and Players to blame for our current problems.

Not enough ARTE ET LABORE shown by the players.

Not enough tactical nous or accountability shown by Manager.

 

Both yes but the buck stops at the manager. When the manager doesn't strengthen in January and essentially transmits the message that the season is now over, the players follow suit whether intentional or subconsciously.