Championship 2018-19

[Bigdoggsteel]

25 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Dont think there is a single standout side in this division. Leeds looked it early on but as we know, they are more than beatable on the day. 

Side note, Ipswich fans must be sick being bottom while Norwich are top - wonder how their hounding out of MM will be debated if they get relegated?

That Derby will be very spicy 

[Waggy76]

Dirty Leeds v Dirty Wigan looks like being very spicy , a sending off or 2 ...

Where's the shit Bradley Dack for Wigan ??

[roversfan99]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Moore was the right choice but I feel he hasn't or wasn't allow to change the match. They were reports of 40 million pounds budget to sign players but that's doesn't seem to have happened. He has had to bring with 3 free transfers after the deadline past in Mears, Hoolahan and Sako. They spent only 11 million on new pounds but sold players for 23 million. seems a strange transfer policy tbh. I not sure about their owners and what the long term plan is. 

Swansea only spent 6 million on new players whilst they received 45 million for players sold. Potter has bought into this policy of bringing through young players. The owners make a statement on the reasons for lack of money spent and their new policy. 

I felt like he forced them into a choice with a very impressive late run last season, but they were already down at that point and therefore it was never going to be a fair representation as to how they would do over the course of a season.

He has Gayle, the best goalscorer in the league I would suggest, as well as players like Rodriguez and Harvey Barnes, so they will always score goals. Its the other end thats the problem, he spent decent money on Bartley who is a no-nonsense centre back at this level, but his tactics involved playing Hegazi, Bartley and Dawson, all 3 similar defenders who arent very good on the ball, playing in a way that leaves them exposed, especially with Matty Phillips as a wing back.

Moore has been surprisingly reluctant to blood any youngsters, being overly loyal to many players who are past their best. Chris Brunt is never a Championship central midfielder anymore in a million years, yet he is often paired with the also immobile Livermore and at times Morrison. They have some talented young players, Oli Burke and Sam Field that have barely been used, and signings like Hoolahan seem pointless and desperate.

I'd personally be surprised if he lasts the season.

And @Waggy76 I believe Nick Powell is injured.

Edited November 4, 2018 by roversfan99

[Waggy76]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I felt like he forced them into a choice with a very impressive late run last season, but they were already down at that point and therefore it was never going to be a fair representation as to how they would do over the course of a season.

He has Gayle, the best goalscorer in the league I would suggest, as well as players like Rodriguez and Harvey Barnes, so they will always score goals. Its the other end thats the problem, he spent decent money on Bartley who is a no-nonsense centre back at this level, but his tactics involved playing Hegazi, Bartley and Dawson, all 3 similar defenders who arent very good on the ball, playing in a way that leaves them exposed, especially with Matty Phillips as a wing back.

Moore has been surprisingly reluctant to blood any youngsters, being overly loyal to many players who are past their best. Chris Brunt is never a Championship central midfielder anymore in a million years, yet he is often paired with the also immobile Livermore and at times Morrison. They have some talented young players, Oli Burke and Sam Field that have barely been used, and signings like Hoolahan seem pointless and desperate.

I'd personally be surprised if he lasts the season.

And @Waggy76 I believe Nick Powell is injured.

That's him , totally forgotten his name !!

[roversfan99]

If theres a better technical player in the Championship than Pablo Hernandez, I've yet to see him. So lucky he was just coming back to fitness against us.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Would prefer if this finished a draw, but it puts some distance between us and Wigan if the score remains the same(2-1 Leeds) . Whatever about where we finish, I always thought we would finish above them this season. Not to drag it up as the debate about how we approached certain games near the end of last season had been done to death, but I thought we were better than them last season. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Would prefer if this finished a draw, but it puts some distance between us and Wigan if the score remains the same(2-1 Leeds) . Whatever about where we finish, I always thought we would finish above them this season. Not to drag it up as the debate about how we approached certain games near the end of last season had been done to death, but I thought we were better than them last season. 

We were the better side I thought, just they set up more positively in games where we were quite conservative on the whole. Whatever though, it worked and we got up so who cares. We were the better side in both games against them too and should really have had more points from them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

We were the better side I thought, just they set up more positively in games where we were quite conservative on the whole. Whatever though, it worked and we got up so who cares. We were the better side in both games against them too and should really have had more points from them.

Ya, I think the fact that they were in League 1 a couple of seasons before stood to them. They hit the ground running from game 1,whereas our slow start ultimately cost us 1st place. We played them off the park in the first half at Ewood. They fluked back into it. Over the two games I didn't see much in them to be honest. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Would prefer if this finished a draw, but it puts some distance between us and Wigan if the score remains the same(2-1 Leeds) . Whatever about where we finish, I always thought we would finish above them this season. Not to drag it up as the debate about how we approached certain games near the end of last season had been done to death, but I thought we were better than them last season. 

I think the league table defined that the last sentence is incorrect and perhaps slightly biased!

To be fair to Wigan, they are missing Powell, Grigg, Jacobs and Massey amongst others. Take away Graham, Dack, Armstrong and Palmer for example and wed struggle too!

Recent history shows that both teams are pretty close though, not much to seperate them at all when they have clean bills of health. Both with experienced managers too, neither should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. We've both improved on squads far too good for League 1, theyve spent much less but Windass in particular looks a good signing, building around 2 very solid spines.

If I recall correctly too, they didnt "fluke" their way back into the game at Ewood, we dominated the first half and likewise them with the second.

Hope Powell is still missing at the end of the month. Big blow for him to be out.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think the league table defined that the last sentence is incorrect and perhaps slightly biased!

To be fair to Wigan, they are missing Powell, Grigg, Jacobs and Massey amongst others. Take away Graham, Dack, Armstrong and Palmer for example and wed struggle too!

Recent history shows that both teams are pretty close though, not much to seperate them at all when they have clean bills of health. Both with experienced managers too, neither should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. We've both improved on squads far too good for League 1, theyve spent much less but Windass in particular looks a good signing, building around 2 very solid spines.

If I recall correctly too, they didnt "fluke" their way back into the game at Ewood, we dominated the first half and likewise them with the second.

Hope Powell is still missing at the end of the month. Big blow for him to be out.

We would have lost to them if we played them early in the season, but as it went on I thought we were the better team. Ah they got two very fluke goals at Ewood, I don't remember them playing that well 

Hopefully we get one over them later this month 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I felt like he forced them into a choice with a very impressive late run last season, but they were already down at that point and therefore it was never going to be a fair representation as to how they would do over the course of a season.

He has Gayle, the best goalscorer in the league I would suggest, as well as players like Rodriguez and Harvey Barnes, so they will always score goals. Its the other end thats the problem, he spent decent money on Bartley who is a no-nonsense centre back at this level, but his tactics involved playing Hegazi, Bartley and Dawson, all 3 similar defenders who arent very good on the ball, playing in a way that leaves them exposed, especially with Matty Phillips as a wing back.

Moore has been surprisingly reluctant to blood any youngsters, being overly loyal to many players who are past their best. Chris Brunt is never a Championship central midfielder anymore in a million years, yet he is often paired with the also immobile Livermore and at times Morrison. They have some talented young players, Oli Burke and Sam Field that have barely been used, and signings like Hoolahan seem pointless and desperate.

I'd personally be surprised if he lasts the season.

And @Waggy76 I believe Nick Powell is injured.

They weren't down at all when Moore took over and could have stay up. Maybe they should have sacked Pardew earlier. 

Rodriguez wanted out in the summer. They only started playing 3 at the back when Greame Jones came in as number 2 there. 

Brunt is a good player but they are stuck with players who are on huge wages and nobody wants like Livermore, Barry, Brunt.

Why Burke and Field aren't playing I don't know and they should be playing 4-3-3- formation. 

Hoolahan, Sako and Mears were signed due to lack of depth and Money. 

time to question the owners and CEO about the lack of money and budget

 

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

Moore would surely have known this beforehand, and still made the very easy decision to accept the job. How he was appointed reminds me of Bowyer at Rovers; did well as caretaker, and I suppose the board find it difficult to argue against that, with the added bonus of these sorts being cheaper (I assume). Whether or not that's a mistake - to put faith in someone has performed well above what you expected for a month or two - I don't know. I imagine you'd get some fan lashback if you passed up on the chance of what looks like an instant gem, especially if you go off and appoint someone experienced that fans deem to be uninspiring and mediocre, say... a Tony Mowbray (before he arrived here), Mick McCarthy, Steve McClaren, etc.

There's a long way to go, yet. West Brom are 7th, but only 5 points off the top, and there are 30 games to go, but it'd be silly to write-off the opinions of fans who see West Brom play every week. Fans can usually be right in this regard, as I think most of us were about Bowyer (and club legend and martyr, Lambert).

Who knows? I read reports of a 40 million pounds transfer budget in the summer. why he didn't get that I don't know. But I honesty thought he would rip that squad up and start a fresh team. 

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think the league table defined that the last sentence is incorrect and perhaps slightly biased!

To be fair to Wigan, they are missing Powell, Grigg, Jacobs and Massey amongst others. Take away Graham, Dack, Armstrong and Palmer for example and wed struggle too!

Recent history shows that both teams are pretty close though, not much to seperate them at all when they have clean bills of health. Both with experienced managers too, neither should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. We've both improved on squads far too good for League 1, theyve spent much less but Windass in particular looks a good signing, building around 2 very solid spines.

If I recall correctly too, they didnt "fluke" their way back into the game at Ewood, we dominated the first half and likewise them with the second.

Hope Powell is still missing at the end of the month. Big blow for him to be out.

Powell and Grigg are 2 key players but they had better players than Jacobs and Massey today playing. 

I'm not sure on Wigan position due to change of ownership and that is unknown factor. They change everything shortly or change nothing until the summer. Plus we don't know what Joe Royle if he is coming in as CEO/Director of football will recommend. 

Powell contract is up this summer and rumour is he off to Celtic. source is a Wigan fan who I work with

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They weren't down at all when Moore took over and could have stay up. Maybe they should have sacked Pardew earlier. 

They were 10 points adrift with six games when he took over they were as good as down. He took 11 points from 6 games and still went down by 5 points taking into account goal difference he would have needed to win all 6 games to stay up.

[skous18]

I cant believe some people are still hating on Evans.. 

Have to say that two years ago I couldn’t stand the guy too, but if last year he was alright, this year he has been amazing! He is a little fighter isnt he? Not afraid to put a tackle in and always there to make a challenge. The balls he has nicked for us so far this season and the attacks he has stoped are over there , to place him in the same category with the best midfielders in the world. Yeah i get that he doesnt make many or any key passes, but still.. everytime the ball comes to him, the way he controls it is just class. I am sure the others around him can sense that and his present on the pitch is probably as important as Dack’s or Mulgrew's.

i wont lie - I have become a huge fan of his. I only wish he could add a goal or two to his game. 

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

They were 10 points adrift with six games when he took over they were as good as down. He took 11 points from 6 games and still went down by 5 points taking into account goal difference he would have needed to win all 6 games to stay up.

so like I said not down at all. 

John Williams make the wrong appointment in Pardew and he paid for it with his job. 

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They weren't down at all when Moore took over and could have stay up. Maybe they should have sacked Pardew earlier. 

Rodriguez wanted out in the summer. They only started playing 3 at the back when Greame Jones came in as number 2 there. 

Brunt is a good player but they are stuck with players who are on huge wages and nobody wants like Livermore, Barry, Brunt.

Why Burke and Field aren't playing I don't know and they should be playing 4-3-3- formation. 

Hoolahan, Sako and Mears were signed due to lack of depth and Money. 

time to question the owners and CEO about the lack of money and budget

 

Who knows? I read reports of a 40 million pounds transfer budget in the summer. why he didn't get that I don't know. But I honesty thought he would rip that squad up and start a fresh team. 

Powell and Grigg are 2 key players but they had better players than Jacobs and Massey today playing. 

I'm not sure on Wigan position due to change of ownership and that is unknown factor. They change everything shortly or change nothing until the summer. Plus we don't know what Joe Royle if he is coming in as CEO/Director of football will recommend. 

Powell contract is up this summer and rumour is he off to Celtic. source is a Wigan fan who I work with

They were, hence him pulling out manager of the month level form and still going down by 5 points.

You seem to be blaming everyone but the manager, even his assistant even though regardless of his ideas, he isnt the one picking the team, if Mowbray picked a wrong team people wouldnt start blaming Venus!

The manager has to take the blame for aspects of their slight underachievement, an overbidding loyalty to past it, experienced players, and an inflexibility and stubbornness to play a formation that leaves 3 centre backs that are not particularly good on the ball exposed.

Hoolahan was exactly what they didnt need, an experienced, 36 year old, immobile central player. Him and Sako have gone above Field and Burke in the pecking order.

He didnt need to rip the team up and spend 40m. Loans such as Krychowiak and Sturridge and big egos such as McLean, Chadli and Rondon all leaving still left them with a squad consisting of some top players at this level (Rodriguez, Dawson, Hegazi, Phillips etc) as well as an undercurrent of youth that has the potential to give the team much needed legs.

Why is Brunt a good player and also a player that nobody wants? Hes certainly not a player that youd want playing alongside a fellow immobile midfielder in a 2 man central midfield.

I'm not necessarily saying that Moore needs to be instantly sacked, just that I can understand the West Brom fans concern and would be surprised if a change wasnt asked for sooner rather than later if it continued. He needs to take the brunt (ironically) of the blame, or the praise, dependant on how well they do. Target has to be top 2.

 

[DE.]

I said at the start of the season I felt WBA would regret not bringing in a proper manager. Not too often that the coach who has a half decent run as caretaker transitions that into long term success. Bowyer was a different kettle of fish as we desperately needed somebody to steady the ship before we sunk completely. Generally speaking bouncing back at the first attempt from this league is the best chance of getting out, and WBA should have put as much effort in as possible to ensure they had the best opportunity to do that. Sticking with Moore was not, imo, the optimum way to go about that. 

That said, I hope Moore does turn it around as he seems like a decent bloke, but much like GB I think his inexperience will cost WBA too many points in the end.

[Ewood Ace]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so like I said not down at all. 

They needed to effectively win their last 6 games to stay up. Having won just one game in 30 accumulating just 20 points from 32 matches. Not even the most optimistic of West Brom fans would have thought that they had any chance of surviving. And if West Brom thought they had any chance of staying up they would not have appointed a manager when they sacked Pardew.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

I said at the start of the season I felt WBA would regret not bringing in a proper manager. Not too often that the coach who has a half decent run as caretaker transitions that into long term success. Bowyer was a different kettle of fish as we desperately needed somebody to steady the ship before we sunk completely. Generally speaking bouncing back at the first attempt from this league is the best chance of getting out, and WBA should have put as much effort in as possible to ensure they had the best opportunity to do that. Sticking with Moore was not, imo, the optimum way to go about that. 

That said, I hope Moore does turn it around as he seems like a decent bloke, but much like GB I think his inexperience will cost WBA too many points in the end.

West Brom should have gone and appointed McCarthy and offered him a huge bonus to deliver promotion this season. I'm sure with their squad and a bit of cash he would have had them in the top 2 or thereabouts as Pulis will do with Middlesbrough.

No doubt McCarthy arriving at WBA with his history at Wolves and his 'reputation' for 'negative' football one or two would have moaned but there's no doubt in my mind he was the ideal candidate for a club in WBA's position needing tried and tested to bounce straight back up.

WBA are not a big club, nor do they seem to have an owner prepared to fund them heavily, so it is imperative for them that they get up either this season or next whilst armed with parachute cash and keeping their best players. Gambling on Moore was a massive risk, and whilst they're not far off the top it seems the honeymoon is coming to an end. So rare that a caretaker coach becomes permanent and makes a success of it.

Edited November 4, 2018 by JHRover

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I see the Whelan family have handed the reins over to the new owners at Wigan today.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Hope Powell is still missing 

They must be scraping the barrel if she’s come out of retirement ⚽️

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

West Brom should have gone and appointed McCarthy and offered him a huge bonus to deliver promotion this season. I'm sure with their squad and a bit of cash he would have had them in the top 2 or thereabouts as Pulis will do with Middlesbrough.

No doubt McCarthy arriving at WBA with his history at Wolves and his 'reputation' for 'negative' football one or two would have moaned but there's no doubt in my mind he was the ideal candidate for a club in WBA's position needing tried and tested to bounce straight back up.

WBA are not a big club, nor do they seem to have an owner prepared to fund them heavily, so it is imperative for them that they get up either this season or next whilst armed with parachute cash and keeping their best players. Gambling on Moore was a massive risk, and whilst they're not far off the top it seems the honeymoon is coming to an end. So rare that a caretaker coach becomes permanent and makes a success of it.

Think this is a good post. Teams who get relegated and have an urgent requirement to get back into the league they have fallen from, with obvious exceptions I admit, should tend to lean towards a manager that knows what he is doing and is proven to do so in order to get back at the first attempt. Rowett is maybe proving otherwise but I'm not convinced he is all that as a manager anyway.

People may point to Swansea but it seems that theyve gone down a different route, stripping their squad of most of its experience and seemingly tried to go more long term and rely on its youth players, accepting that they may be in the league for more than one season, and feel they can afford to do that. Theyve not just appointed a former stand in like Moore, who has literally nothing to prove that he can get them back up bar a very brief caretaker spell, but someone in Potter who has a specific style that he has shown working abroad, and the whole thing there screams the word project, because he doesnt have experience of promotion either.

With West Brom, they have kept many of their big players, so I like to compare to us and Wigan last season, albeit in a lower league. Cook and Mowbray have track records with promotion on them, and both took over similar situations. People are always quick to praise Mowbray for the signings hes made, but if he was to pick his first 11 if everyone was fit, I would suggest that Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett, Evans and Graham would all feature in it even now. I think this proves that the key to Mowbray getting success last season wasnt him working wonders in the transfer market, it was very much a mixed bag, it was getting the best out of the players he inherited who had the ability but im sure were not particularly keen on a season in a lower league. He has looked to develop the younger ones and motivate the older ones and thats been the key, getting them working in a structure and a consistent formation. The same with Cook, he inherited Burn, Powell, Morsy, Grigg, Jacobs etc but he got the best out of them as previous managers had failed to do, rather than totally re strip the squad.

[JHRover]

I try to think back over the last few years in the Championship how many coaches have taken over as a Caretaker manager and then have been successful. in a permanent capacity. The obvious one with us was Bowyer, but i think that was as much the stability and calming influence he brought to a club in chaos off the pitch and the circumstances here were far from normal. 

In terms of others - Ramsey got a crack at QPR but didn't last very long before being replaced by Hasselbaink. Think Neil Adams had a spell at Norwich before swiftly being replaced by Alex Neil who turned them around and got them promoted via the play-offs. Darren Wassall and Neil Redfearn were put in permanent charge at Derby and Leeds having previously been reserve coaches but neither really did much and were replaced shortly after. 

I suppose it could be said that Warburton at Brentford was the ultimate success story for a bloke who came from nowhere, but again Brentford have a unique way of doing things.

For whatever reason it just doesn't ever seem to end with success or last long term.

Edited November 4, 2018 by JHRover

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

They were, hence him pulling out manager of the month level form and still going down by 5 points.

You seem to be blaming everyone but the manager, even his assistant even though regardless of his ideas, he isnt the one picking the team, if Mowbray picked a wrong team people wouldnt start blaming Venus!

The manager has to take the blame for aspects of their slight underachievement, an overbidding loyalty to past it, experienced players, and an inflexibility and stubbornness to play a formation that leaves 3 centre backs that are not particularly good on the ball exposed.

Hoolahan was exactly what they didnt need, an experienced, 36 year old, immobile central player. Him and Sako have gone above Field and Burke in the pecking order.

He didnt need to rip the team up and spend 40m. Loans such as Krychowiak and Sturridge and big egos such as McLean, Chadli and Rondon all leaving still left them with a squad consisting of some top players at this level (Rodriguez, Dawson, Hegazi, Phillips etc) as well as an undercurrent of youth that has the potential to give the team much needed legs.

Why is Brunt a good player and also a player that nobody wants? Hes certainly not a player that youd want playing alongside a fellow immobile midfielder in a 2 man central midfield.

I'm not necessarily saying that Moore needs to be instantly sacked, just that I can understand the West Brom fans concern and would be surprised if a change wasnt asked for sooner rather than later if it continued. He needs to take the brunt (ironically) of the blame, or the praise, dependant on how well they do. Target has to be top 2.

 

I blame for not changing the squad around enough and failed in bringing in a right back, 3rd striker and midfield playmaker. Dawson and Rodriguez wanted out and failed to do I think has affected them badly. Hoolahan and Sako were signed as a last resort..lack of money. They should change their squad more in terms of more younger players for midfield like Ryan Woods and Adam Forshaw or Nick Powell. 

Brunt is a good player but needs legs around him. 

I hope Moore turns it around for his sake and WBA fans

[DeeCee]

Moore seems to be good chap and a WBA stalwart,  although that doesn't count for much nowadsys. Let's hope he gets time to pull it round and get them up, but not above or before Rovers.

[philipl]

Both great runs in the Championship ended on Saturday.

Brum were 1 up at Derby who upped the tempo 2nd half and blew them away.

We of course were 0-0, denied QPR any chance of nicking it then snatched it ourselves at the end. The total lack of any QPR response after the penalty showed they had no attacking thoughts whatsoever.

Brum included some notable scalps in their good run but QPR picked off wins against bottom half sides in their run. Memo to Rovers- beat the lower sides and you shoot up the league.