Adam Wharton

[chaddyrovers]

37 minutes ago, DuffsLeftPeg said:

Agreed very odd behaviour from @chaddyrovers 

Anderson definitely has the shirt for now, probably similar for Rogers vs Bellingham too. But we all know who is more likely to step up in a big game against better opposition and make an impact. 

why odd? cos I actually think Anderson is better suited to playing the 6 role (defensive midfielder) under how we play with Tuchel's tactical and I think actually think Wharton under these tactical instructions would be better higher up in the 8(box to box midfielder role). 

I think Rogers is better suited to playing as the 10 then Bellingham is and I didn't like his reaction at being sub. Childish behaviour 

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Or you could just do the unthinkable and call it something everyone else understands, like a defensive midfielder?

Just a thought.

or you could learn them and understand it but for clarity I will do both now. 

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Those stats show he is the best midfielder in the league this season. He had a very good season and he is bang in form. 

Firstly, I'm not interested in you are skeptical of these stats and who says I follow that forest account. That is again you making assumption again. 

secondly, Anderson is much suited to being the number 6(defensive midfielder) in the way Tuchel wants to play but also in a game like yesterday when Albania who were very solid, defensively structure and well organised. I think Wharton needed to play yesterday and more in around the box instead of playing so deep. 

The Stones's experiment didn't work. 

more generic nonsense again from you. 

No chaddy, they dont "show" that he is the best midfielder in the league.

The best midfielder in the league is a purely subjective choice. Those stats used will have been pre selected, the stats are not without their flaws, you are comparing different players playing different roles in different teams with different levels of dominance and control in games, different tactics etc.

If you think that Anderson is the best midfielder in the league, or has been this season, then thats fine. But those stats do not prove the conclusion you have taken from them, nor are they intended for that purpose.

[47er]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Please can we stop calling it the 'number 6' or the 'number 8' role and just say what position it is, for the benefit of those who don't worship at the altar of daft football jargon, please?

Thanks.

As far as I'm concerned Number 8 is inside right and number 6 is left-half. Number 10 is Douglas.

[bluebruce]

51 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Basing it on the fact that Wharton struggled yesterday and when Anderson came on he transformed the performance 

Did he 'struggle' though or are you just aware he's capable of more? I didn't get to see the game, but the ratings I saw gave him a 7 (Bellingham was a 3 for reference) and apparently the stats say he made the most chances.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, DuffsLeftPeg said:

For his first senior start in a hostile atmosphere against tough opposition, he did well and will learn a lot from it. Other more experienced players such as Bellingham, Rice or Eze didn’t have the best of nights either.

Bellingham and Eze were poor but somehow Bellingham was man of the match according to the poll online with the England FA 

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It was one game that ultimately didnt matter for either side.

Anderson didnt transform the game, a poor Albania side had conceded, had tired and England had taken control by the time he came on.

Its not worth taking significant conclusions from.

of course it matter, its a quality game and result and performance matter. Tuchel tried a different tactical approach first half. Not keen on that. 

Anderson was more effective in the 6 role(defensive midfielder) than Wharton was. 

Albania was well organised, solid and difficult to break down, something we face in the world cup so this was a good test for us, I fed up with you writing off these types of games at every opportunity you get. 

Why shouldn't take any significant Conclusions from yesterday? 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No chaddy, they dont "show" that he is the best midfielder in the league.

The best midfielder in the league is a purely subjective choice. Those stats used will have been pre selected, the stats are not without their flaws, you are comparing different players playing different roles in different teams with different levels of dominance and control in games, different tactics etc.

If you think that Anderson is the best midfielder in the league, or has been this season, then thats fine. But those stats do not prove the conclusion you have taken from them, nor are they intended for that purpose.

these stats shown in those 6 categories he was ranked number 1 in every one which would say he has been the best in those areas of the game. Anderson has been very good this season and he has been in England shirt just like he was last season and for the England under 21's tournament which we won 

 

[Dreams of 1995]

I don't think Wharton had the best game. He was crowded out and not given much time on the ball. There were some tidy forward passes though. It was a real tough game for him to start against a team who defended so deep. As we know, Wharton's biggest skillset is that very quick thinking through ball behind the defence. Albania didn't give an opportunity for that

I believe Tuchel prefers Anderson in that role and it will likely be that Anderson will start for the World Cup, season pending of course.

Adam Wharton provides good competition. We are in a position where we have two current arguments through the spine of the squad: Rogers or Bellingham, Wharton or Anderson.

We need to see that for what it is - a huge success of English youth football.

Wharton has a long time ahead of him and has a lot of tournament football ahead of him. His time will come.

Edited 6 hours ago by Dreams of 1995

[RevidgeBlue]

36 minutes ago, neophox said:

Hope he come back to Rovers one day. He would had been a legend here.

No chance of that. He might do the half time draw at some point when in the area.

[jim mk2]

I thought Wharton was quietly efficient without pulling up any trees. Did he do enough to start in front of a number of midfield players ahead of him in the pecking order - no, he didn't. 

[Mike E]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I thought Wharton was quietly efficient without pulling up any trees. Did he do enough to start in front of a number of midfield players ahead of him in the pecking order - no, he didn't. 

Summed up perfectly.

He will get picked more when he’s picked up by a bigger club. Even a pragmatic manager like Tuchel will fall for that simply because Wharton will be more visible.

Being the best at a small club isn’t as good as being in the middle at a big club.

[jim mk2]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

Summed up perfectly.

He will get picked more when he’s picked up by a bigger club. Even a pragmatic manager like Tuchel will fall for that simply because Wharton will be more visible.

Being the best at a small club isn’t as good as being in the middle at a big club.

To be honest, I wouldn't say he was anonymous last night but many fans who aren't really aware of him and don't know his qualities like we do would have wondered why he was picked

[RevidgeBlue]

I really dont get the assassination of Wharton on here, I thought both him and Anderson played well. They're different types of player.

Adam can look a bit languid but the first yard or two are in his head with him. Anderson is the busier looking of the two but doesn't have anywhere near the range of passing ability of Wharton

Tuchel wants to play a certain way and in best Sir Alf style will pick the players who he thinks will best suit his system rather than on reputation alone as Bellingham is probably finding out.

If he thinks Anderson better suits what he wants to do he'll probably get the nod initially but Im sure Adam will get plenty of chances in specific games or off the bench if he continues to perform in general.

I like how it seems to be coming together under Tuchel and for the first time in a long while I'll be going into a World Cub genuinely believing we can win it rather than us thinking we'll never win anything with this guy in charge etc.

Edit: as I alluded to last night, the only thing that worries me is an injury to Kane - if that happens I think we're snookered.

Edited 6 hours ago by RevidgeBlue

[wilsdenrover]

The below has Anderson as the eighth best midfielder this season.

It’s almost like different people place different emphasis on what constitutes ‘the best’ 🧐

There may even be people who select the stats which agree with their opinion 🤔

https://www.squawka.com/en/features/position-ranking-premier-league-best-midfielders-right-now/

[rigger]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Hope he come back to Rovers one day. He would had been a legend here.

But he wouldn't have played for England.

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Did he 'struggle' though or are you just aware he's capable of more? I didn't get to see the game, but the ratings I saw gave him a 7 (Bellingham was a 3 for reference) and apparently the stats say he made the most chances.

Yes he found it hard. Wasn't helped by the fact that stones kept occupying his space. Midfield was over congested at times.  He's better having someone alongside him to do the dirty work. He's not good as a lone 6. Anderson is more industrious.  And has a bigger physical presence 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I really dont get the assassination of Wharton on here, I thought both him and Anderson played well. They're different types of player.

Adam can look a bit languid but the first yard or two are in his head with him. Anderson is the busier looking of the two but doesn't have anywhere near the range of passing ability of Wharton

Tuchel wants to play a certain way and in best Sir Alf style will pick the players who he thinks will best suit his system rather than on reputation alone as Bellingham is probably finding out.

If he thinks Anderson better suits what he wants to do he'll probably get the nod initially but Im sure Adam will get plenty of chances in specific games or off the bench if he continues to perform in general.

I like how it seems to be coming together under Tuchel and for the first time in a long while I'll be going into a World Cub genuinely believing we can win it rather than us thinking we'll never win anything with this guy in charge etc.

Edit: as I alluded to last night, the only thing that worries me is an injury to Kane - if that happens I think we're snookered.

The positive thing is we still have the likes of palmer madueke Gordon ghuei konsa Livramento to come back.  Also possibly trent if he can find his form

Edited 4 hours ago by roverandout

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, neophox said:

Hope he come back to Rovers one day. He would had been a legend here.

He has said publicly that he would like to finish his playing days at Rovers.

However, there’s a lot of water to flow under many bridges before that happens.

[roversfan99]

58 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

The below has Anderson as the eighth best midfielder this season.

It’s almost like different people place different emphasis on what constitutes ‘the best’ 🧐

There may even be people who select the stats which agree with their opinion 🤔

https://www.squawka.com/en/features/position-ranking-premier-league-best-midfielders-right-now/

The problem is, people dont take these stats for what they are. They are misinterpreted, too much onus is put on them, they are cherry picked and illogical conclusions are reached .

Wharton's pass percentage will probably not be anything special because he passes forward.

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

The problem is, people dont take these stats for what they are. They are misinterpreted, too much onus is put on them, they are cherry picked and illogical conclusions are reached .

Wharton's pass percentage will probably not be anything special because he passes forward.

A point emphasised by Wright and Keane at half time.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Bellingham and Eze were poor but somehow Bellingham was man of the match according to the poll online with the England FA 

of course it matter, its a quality game and result and performance matter. Tuchel tried a different tactical approach first half. Not keen on that. 

Anderson was more effective in the 6 role(defensive midfielder) than Wharton was. 

Albania was well organised, solid and difficult to break down, something we face in the world cup so this was a good test for us, I fed up with you writing off these types of games at every opportunity you get. 

Why shouldn't take any significant Conclusions from yesterday? 

Why shouldnt significant conclusions be taken from one game, a qualifier which was essentially a friendly because there was nothing to play for, comparing a player who started the game and played 75 mins v someone who came on with England dominant and winning?

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

these stats shown in those 6 categories he was ranked number 1 in every one which would say he has been the best in those areas of the game. Anderson has been very good this season and he has been in England shirt just like he was last season and for the England under 21's tournament which we won 

 

But they DONT show/prove that Anderson is objectively the best midfielder in the league which is what you said.

[Dreams of 1995]

47 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Yes he found it hard. Wasn't helped by the fact that stones kept occupying his space. Midfield was over congested at times.  He's better having someone alongside him to do the dirty work. He's not good as a lone 6. Anderson is more industrious.  And has a bigger physical presence 

Very true regarding Stones. The change at half-time had a good effect on the flow of the game. Stones coming into midfield made things worse on this occasion 

It was just too crowded for Wharton to demonstrate his abilities yesterday. That can happen with any player though. The most famous example when Park Ji-Sung marked Pirlo out of the game. Special players can have bad games purely because of the oppositions system or just the general flow of the game.

I don't think Wharton is going to be a starter for Tuchel's England at present. I do think he will be taken to the World Cup though

[Rogerb]

If Nixon is correct about the five competitive game clause it is not beyond the realms of possibilities that Adam is no longer a palace player when he reaches that number if Anderson is first choice and stays fit at the World Cup.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Why shouldnt significant conclusions be taken from one game, a qualifier which was essentially a friendly because there was nothing to play for, comparing a player who started the game and played 75 mins v someone who came on with England dominant and winning?

Sorry, They were 3 points to play for, players given a chance to shine and against a tactic used by Albania that many teams will played against us. Bellingham was awful, Eze not good enough, Burn made mistakes, etc

Cos Anderson was more effective than Wharton was as I said and I also said that I feel Wharton would be better playing higher up the pitch. I have said and others have said similar that Anderson is actually more suited to playing that 6 role(defensive midfielder) cos how Tuchel wants that role played but also how we play overall 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

But they DONT show/prove that Anderson is objectively the best midfielder in the league which is what you said.

isn't he first in forward passes, or touches or line breaking passes or successful dribbles or progressive carries or Possession won then? I must have none seen that on Sky Sports PL channel before the Sunday games started. 

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Rogerb said:

If Nixon is correct about the five competitive game clause it is not beyond the realms of possibilities that Adam is no longer a palace player when he reaches that number if Anderson is first choice and stays fit at the World Cup.

Exactly why it would have been really stupid to put that clause in. Not a lot of players get to make 5 competitive appearances for England for a club like Palace before they get snapped up by bigger fish.