Jump to content
Stuart

Ben Brereton

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You said he hasn't played well yet. I and many others, the majority I would say, think he did well yesterday. 

That's my opinion. It's not a narrative. By narrative you are impling my opinion is being given to suit another agenda or story. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That's my opinion. It's not a narrative. By narrative you are impling my opinion is being given to suit another agenda or story. 

I can see it coming a mile away. Some will never warm to Brereton because of the price tag. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, rigger said:

Nobody near me in the Blackburn end seemed particularly impressed with him yesterday, I certainly wasn't.

Perhaps next time you should sit on the Riverside to get a better view. There were plenty on there who saw him play well, considering he was playing out of position. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I can see it coming a mile away. Some will never warm to Brereton because of the price tag. 

That's more truthful from you, but inaccurate as far as I am concerned.

I'm the first to judge players after seeing what they do on a pitch. Look at my u-turn on the Downing signing last season - so much so I started a thread on opinions you had got wrong based on it. I supported Jason Roberts when other just criticised and even saw the good in Blake despite the criticism he received. I'd like to think I'm fully capable of judging players on what they do on the pitch, regardless of what they cost, who they sleep with, what parties they attend and what their wife says on twitter.

My opinion on Brereton so far is posted clearly above, but be rest assured I'll be the first to praise him when he shows his ability. 

There may well be people who never warm to him because of the price tag but I'm not one of them. There will also be those people who talk up his contributions in games as they can't be seen to accept Mowbray may have overspent on a limited player.

 

Edited by Hasta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That's more truthful from you, but inaccurate as far as I am concerned.

I'm the first to judge players after seeing what they do on a pitch. Look at my u-turn on the Downing signing last season - so much so I started a thread on opinions you had got wrong based on it. I supported Jason Roberts when other just criticised and even saw the good in Blake despite the criticism he received. I'd like to think I'm fully capable of judging players on what they do on the pitch, regardless of what they cost, who they sleep with, what parties they attend and what their wife says on twitter.

My opinion on Brereton so far is posted clearly above, but be rest assured I'll be the first to praise him when he shows his ability. 

There may well be people who never warm to him because of the price tag but I'm not one of them. There will also be those people who talk up his contributions in games as they can't be seen to accept Mowbray may have overspent on a limited player.

 

Fair enough points in the first two paragraphs, but I think your last paragraph is unfair. I don't think those saying he did well yesterday are doing it from any point of syubberness to defend Mowbray, they just think he played well. Either way, it's far too early to judge definitively. Forrest fans are pretty unanimous that he isn't limited though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Fair enough points in the first two paragraphs, but I think your last paragraph is unfair. I don't think those saying he did well yesterday are doing it from any point of syubberness to defend Mowbray, they just think he played well. Either way, it's far too early to judge definitively. Forrest fans are pretty unanimous that he isn't limited though. 

Lol. That's unfair  but  your posts on my fictional 'narrative' was fair ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it is the price you pay these days but how much is Armstrong worth now he's on a long contract if BB is worth £7m?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What about when people say give the young lad time, do you hate that too? Numerous posts in the previous few pages with people saying they hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal. Are they being negative? 

It works both ways. I'm all for discussion, but if some keep saying he is the new Kevin Davies, isn't up to it, hope it isn't actually a done deal in January etc, I reserve my right to call them negative. 

Let me address your points individually:

Give the young lad time - I only dont like this when its used as a counter-argument to people commenting on for example a poor performance. Yes hes very much a long term project, but as with anyone, we judge players performances as they go, on a game by game basis. If people think hes not playing well, then they think hes not playing well. The vast majority are aware that he is only young and bare that in mind. But obviously age alone is not a reason to spend such a massive amount of money, he has to offer something now. (Which I feel he did yesterday)

Hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal/that it isnt a done deal in January - That is constructive and a valid point, its clearly based on the assumption that the 7m can be spent on other players, and whether Ben Brereton was worth that amount or whether we should have spent it elsewhere. It has and always will be the big question because its such a big amount of money for us relative to spend in the last few years. 

The new Kevin Davies - I havent seen this used, but taking your word for it, I would agree that this is a lazy comparison based solely on price tag and reputation.

I reserve my right to call them negative - Absolutely. Its just not a constructive criticism, nor does it add anything to the debate. 

The reason that I imagine that it riles people is that Brereton and everyone else receives total backing in the stadium, this is a messageboard where we can give an honest opinion without it impacting on the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That's more truthful from you, but inaccurate as far as I am concerned.

I'm the first to judge players after seeing what they do on a pitch. Look at my u-turn on the Downing signing last season - so much so I started a thread on opinions you had got wrong based on it. I supported Jason Roberts when other just criticised and even saw the good in Blake despite the criticism he received. I'd like to think I'm fully capable of judging players on what they do on the pitch, regardless of what they cost, who they sleep with, what parties they attend and what their wife says on twitter.

My opinion on Brereton so far is posted clearly above, but be rest assured I'll be the first to praise him when he shows his ability. 

There may well be people who never warm to him because of the price tag but I'm not one of them. There will also be those people who talk up his contributions in games as they can't be seen to accept Mowbray may have overspent on a limited player.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Fair enough points in the first two paragraphs, but I think your last paragraph is unfair. I don't think those saying he did well yesterday are doing it from any point of syubberness to defend Mowbray, they just think he played well. Either way, it's far too early to judge definitively. Forrest fans are pretty unanimous that he isn't limited though. 

Theres no way that if Brereton started scoring goals and playing well, that people "wouldnt warm to him." The only reason that many arent convinced is because in his very limited cameos, one thing im keen to stress (limited game time), he has done nothing to suggest that he is going to stake a claim to be a regular in the side.

What I have seen from Forest fans online has not been unanimous I must say, been split positive and negative, but one thing that is massively different, as much as we may want to pretend it isnt, is that at Forest, he was one of quite a few players (Worrall, Burke etc) that came through the academy, and I have seen a lot about "giving youth a chance" so Brereton would have been a torch bearer for the clubs academy. Here, he is a 7 million signing after a number of years of incredibly limited spending. Therefore the expectations/background is totally different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When at the ground he gets my full support. He may come good, he may not. Time will tell. I watched sessegnon at 18 years old playing premiership football yesterday as he has all season. Rooney played at 16, Wickham at 15. If he's good enough he would be starting. Going off what I have seen from him and Graham , ben has no chance of taking Danny's shirt anytime soon. The baffling thing about all this is why isn't he playing upfront when he comes on. The only way to get match fit is to play. The only way to build confidence and learn your role is to play in the position you where bought for and is your best position. I've seen , as other rovers fans and nearly all forest fans have that he isn't a winger. So until he plays up top and starts scoring the same questions will be asked over and over. It's ok saying we have bought potential it's how he is being managed that's baffling me. I'm sure Tony has a master plan and I will look stupid down the line but I just can't work out why he spent so much on a player that doesn't start or play in the position he was bought for, what is he protecting him from , what does he have to learn to get a start and how can he learn if he never plays in his best position

Edited by Oldgregg86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Oldgregg86 said:

When at the ground he gets my full support. He may come good, he may not. Time will tell. I watched sessegnon at 18 years old playing premiership football yesterday as he has all season. Rooney played at 16, Wickham at 15. If he's good enough he would be starting. Going off what I have seen from him and Graham , ben has no chance of taking Danny's shirt anytime soon. The baffling thing about all this is why isn't he playing upfront when he comes on. The only way to get match fit is to play. The only way to build confidence and learn your role is to play in the position you where bought for and is your best position. I've seen , as other rovers fans and nearly all forest fans have that he isn't a winger. So until he plays up top and starts scoring the same questions will be asked over and over. It's ok saying we have bought potential it's how he is being managed that's baffling me. I'm sure Tony has a master plan and I will look stupid down the line but I just can't work out why he spent so much on a player that doesn't start or play in the position he was bought for, what is he protecting him from , what does he have to learn to get a start and how can he learn if he never plays in his best position

That's more or less my view also. If he was a kid coming out of our youth system nobody would be expecting him to take games by the scruff of the neck. We wouldn't be too bothered if he was coming on for the last 20 minutes in games. The problem is he isn't just one of our kids,  he's the player we've spent the most money on since the Rhodes era by a long, long way. With that fee comes expectations wether people like it or not.

Big fees bring big pressures. Even the great Jimmy Greaves insisted on having his transfer fee set at £99,990 because he didn't want to be known as the first £100,000 player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

That is my own opinion exactly. A strange buy, in our circumstances.

That said, I was rooting for him to have a good moment to encourage him, as soon as he took the field. I really want him to succeed and I don't buy for one second that anyone wants him to fail...or won't accept him, just because of the price tag.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

I was going to write something similar..it would have made far more sense to pad the squad out or add two or three starters this season and then start to add potential and luxury. We should have signed a proper striker, a proper winger, a proper centre back and an experienced back up keeper. Then with a solid foundation add the likes of brereton and players of that ilk to grow and push the first 11. Then nuttall, Travis, Fisher  could go on loan and gain the experience they desperately need. This has nothing to do with breretons abiltiy but yet again at rovers even when it's positive news it leaves more questions than answers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

Id say it's still a bit early to say, but the signs are not great to be honest.

That said most of the squad looks well stocked except for striker and winger. We've got a lot of centrebacks now - if you consider Rodwell can play there, plus Williams and Nyambe can slot in.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought he had his best game for us to date (or at least the home games I have seen him play in).  Is he giving us a return on the £7m definitely not yet but he was bought for the long term so we have to give him time..

What is confusing me is the following:

His previous manager didn't have him starting 

His previous club supporters loved him

Current manager isn't starting him

..To date I haven't seen anythimh of note to confirm he's gonna be a player for us.. although I do recall it took Dack some minutes to get upto speed for us too..  momentum is key and I think he needs games in his favoured position just can't see him getting them though?? 

Hence why I am confused wonder what the management view us on him?! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seemed that TM brought him over to the left wing later on so that he could tell him what to do, as he looked a bit lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to be said, he did look decent when he was running with the ball at pace. This isn’t the role that Graham’s position is required to do. Maybe that’s why he was put out wide. Still round pegs in square holes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing we know for sure is TM will not start any of his signings till they start playing and working up their fitness to what he expects...all the new signings have mentioned this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Id say it's still a bit early to say, but the signs are not great to be honest.

That said most of the squad looks well stocked except for striker and winger. We've got a lot of centrebacks now - if you consider Rodwell can play there, plus Williams and Nyambe can slot in.

 

 

Disagree with your point regarding centre backs. Players who can fill in for half an hour mid-game or for 1 or 2 games max in someones absence, thats one thing, if Mulgrew or Lenihan are out for say a month or longer then you cant rely on someone out of position, as their lack of familiarity with that position will become abundantly clear.

From the 3 you mention, Williams has experience of playing as one of a 3 at Bristol City, if he was to fill in here he wouldnt have that luxury. Rodwell has not played there regularly since his youth career and Nyambe only once or twice (I recall Hull at home and also a checkatrade game) and he looked like a fish out of water, for one he cant head a ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal/that it isnt a done deal in January - That is constructive and a valid point, its clearly based on the assumption that the 7m can be spent on other players, and whether Ben Brereton was worth that amount or whether we should have spent it elsewhere. It has and always will be the big question because its such a big amount of money for us relative to spend in the last few years. 

The reason that I imagine that it riles people is that Brereton and everyone else receives total backing in the stadium, this is a messageboard where we can give an honest opinion without it impacting on the team.

Why would we wiggling room in the deal? 

Spent on other players? What other players? Mowbray already said that the deal is done and its big outlay for him. 

Total backing in the stadium? Not away at Stoke, 2 fans in front of me where slagging him off left right centre. 

He is going to take time to adjust to the club, living in the area, Mowbray tactics, style and fitness requirements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I can see it coming a mile away. Some will never warm to Brereton because of the price tag. 

We are supposed to be assessing Brereton here, not  each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Let me address your points individually:

Give the young lad time - I only dont like this when its used as a counter-argument to people commenting on for example a poor performance. Yes hes very much a long term project, but as with anyone, we judge players performances as they go, on a game by game basis. If people think hes not playing well, then they think hes not playing well. The vast majority are aware that he is only young and bare that in mind. But obviously age alone is not a reason to spend such a massive amount of money, he has to offer something now. (Which I feel he did yesterday)

Hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal/that it isnt a done deal in January - That is constructive and a valid point, its clearly based on the assumption that the 7m can be spent on other players, and whether Ben Brereton was worth that amount or whether we should have spent it elsewhere. It has and always will be the big question because its such a big amount of money for us relative to spend in the last few years. 

The new Kevin Davies - I havent seen this used, but taking your word for it, I would agree that this is a lazy comparison based solely on price tag and reputation.

I reserve my right to call them negative - Absolutely. Its just not a constructive criticism, nor does it add anything to the debate. 

The reason that I imagine that it riles people is that Brereton and everyone else receives total backing in the stadium, this is a messageboard where we can give an honest opinion without it impacting on the team.

I’m embarrassed that someone felt compelled to ‘laugh’ at this post.

Dont let a tiny minority put you off posting continuing to post like this - because there will come times when you get fed up of them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Riversider28 said:

Perhaps next time you should sit on the Riverside to get a better view. There were plenty on there who saw him play well, considering he was playing out of position. 

The people I’ve spoken too about him said the same - however one person did make the point to me that he still doesn’t look fully fit or strong yet and I agreed on that.

I listened to TM’s interview and he said exactly the same. TM doesn’t strike me as someone who would attempt to justify a big signing by playing him when he’s not ready, so I’m quite convinced that game time is going to be the main source of improvement for B.B. Plus imo he’s hardly done “very poorly” that kind of comment is reserved for a Dixon Etuhu’ esq performance coming in for 20 minutes, getting booked, giving a penalty away and then being re subbed. B.b has been ineffective at worst.

In terms of other comments, I’ll just unequivocally say that already making these assertions is utterly embarrassing from my point of view;  “The new Kevin Davies”, “hope we wiggle out of signing him”, “very poor performance/cameo”, “playing him to lower eventual fee”, “should of spent elsewhere” etc 

The absolute pearler; “it’s obvious B.B. is a bad buy”....

Ive been critical of Jal down the years for stupid posts but that comment based on what we’ve seen so far from B.B. easily one of the most baffling ever. 

Edited by Biz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

That is my own opinion exactly. A strange buy, in our circumstances.

That said, I was rooting for him to have a good moment to encourage him, as soon as he took the field. I really want him to succeed and I don't buy for one second that anyone wants him to fail...or won't accept him, just because of the price tag.

 

I don’t think it’s strange at all, Mowbray is one of few managers afforded time. As newbies to the league even us as fans aren’t expecting much. We’ve got a solid squad that will at least survive. Therefore we aren’t in need of quick fixes to keep us up or push us over the line, we are able to look to the next couple of years and build a squad that would be capabale of a sustained promotion push. Brereton coming in now is with a view to him being key to that in a year or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.