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Tony Mowbray Discussion

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I’ve get a feeling this season is the one we talk about in a decade saying do you remember the Dack Armstrong times the same way we  reminisce about that Rhodes Gestede 40 goal season. Which makes the whole thing even more infuriating 

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You have to create a berth for captain every now and then !!! That type of thing in general goes hand in hand with him. 

When something works he'll only let it go so far before he fiddles with it again and when that doesn't work he keeps trying it till it does.  Wouldn't be surprised if Gallagher on the wing and Armstrong up top have similar stats. Also just how many games have been turned around or a point gained by throwing on Brereton ?

I don't get why people don't see such things holding us back sometimes, yes he does stuff that works obviously but why not stick to it where possible. And improve the constant proven weak areas when there is opportunity ?

 

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15 hours ago, Stuart said:

We have already seen them drop points, a lot of points - and we have failed to make up the ground. We should be in pole position for sixth place now and we aren’t.

What you are suggesting is that these teams will continue to go on winless streaks for the foreseeable future. The law of averages says that these teams will have a reasonable run now. We’ve blown it I’m afraid.

Even if they were to somehow keep losing, we’ve shown ourselves to be incapable of making it count.

I'm sure their fans are saying the exact same about them. 

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2 hours ago, OJRovers said:

I've updated the analysis of Nyambe vs Bennett at right back, since November the figures show a stark contrast:

With Bennett at RB: W2 D1 L5 (0.87 points per game)
With Nyambe at RB: W8 D7 L1 (1.9 points per game)

What this tells me is that Mowbray has failed to provide cover at RB/CB for injuries to Nyambe or suspension of Lennihan/Tosin. Another example of the awful summer transfer window coming home to roost.

 

Absolutely damning stats from Bennett's point of view. Having seen the way he performs In that role however, I can't say I'm surprised.

I thought his performance against Derby was woeful; shambolic in fact. His body language on the pitch used to be one of confidence and enjoyment. He now looks subdued and anxious. He goes missing when we are defending which leaves a gaping hole in his position. He hides when not in possession, and when he has no choice but to receive the ball, he releases it as quickly and simply as he is able. 

When attacking, he gives no indication that he was once a winger. He is incapable of beating the full back and his crosses into the box are almost always an abject failure.

I almost feel sorry for the man. He is a limping dog of a player and I would like to see him being put out of his misery.

Lovely bloke and all that....

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mowbray says "it was a frustrating day at derby and lets not dwell on the result" ffs if bennett is a limping dog of player then mowbray is his mangerial equal,a disabled budgie of a manager

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5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm sure their fans are saying the exact same about them. 

They are still above us. That’s the difference.

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12 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Also factor in that there are so many teams in the mix, a number of whom are above us, and we are reliant on a lot of them being on bad runs. Assuming 3rd-5th are our of reach (although not sure they are imo) that's still 3-4 teams we need to all be on bad runs. That simply won't happen. In fact Millwall are already showing they are in excellent form, so this whole other teams will continue to drop points is wishful thinking really. A bit like when we got relegated to League 1, there's far too much looking at how other teams will do and not enough reliance on our own ability

That’s exactly what it reminds me of.

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Interview with Mowbray about his time at Middlesbrough.

https://t.co/mA16P86ecX

The following bit of the interview made me laugh though I have to say.

“We had been playing around trying to make Rhys Williams a centre half from a midfielder, but while Rhys could look amazing bringing that ball out from the back, natural dominance was what the team needed really - someone who had a head like a magnet and could head it out.

Glad he learned his lessons from doing things like that before he came here...

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Posted (edited)

Think he said something very similar after leaving Coventry. Basically that it was his fault for not getting a leader who can head the ball away.

He also mentions Daniel Ayala, maybe in a normal economic situation he would have tried to get him here this summer.

Edited by roversfan99

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12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He also mentions Daniel Ayala, maybe in a normal economic situation he would have tried to get him here this summer.

Would be good signing for us

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Saw this retweeted on twitter, not sure if the tweeter is on here but anyway I think it can make an interesting conversation.

I would say of course that I think Mowbray has done a good job here. The squad is better now and we are in a better place now compared to when he joined, not sure there is much argument in that. 

Playing devils advocate, is it THAT much of an progression to in 3 years time go from being in the bottom 3 in a league to then be outside the top 6 within that same league having never broke into that top 6? A very healthy budget that neednt be downplayed, and a few youngsters in particular that the manager deserves plenty of credit for the way he has nurtured but ultimately it is a massive strength to inherit such young players like Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis. Mixed transfers including expensive duds, free/cheap revelations, some cheap players along the way who were useful within the progression and fairly decent overall use of the loan market. Failed to save us from relegation, kudos for promotion to put us back to where we started, gradual progression since.

Screenshot_20200622-181035_Twitter.jpg

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2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Saw this retweeted on twitter, not sure if the tweeter is on here but anyway I think it can make an interesting conversation.

I would say of course that I think Mowbray has done a good job here. The squad is better now and we are in a better place now compared to when he joined, not sure there is much argument in that. 

Playing devils advocate, is it THAT much of an progression to in 3 years time go from being in the bottom 3 in a league to then be outside the top 6 within that same league having never broke into that top 6? A very healthy budget that neednt be downplayed, and a few youngsters in particular that the manager deserves plenty of credit for the way he has nurtured but ultimately it is a massive strength to inherit such young players like Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis. Mixed transfers including expensive duds, free/cheap revelations, some cheap players along the way who were useful within the progression and fairly decent overall use of the loan market. Failed to save us from relegation, kudos for promotion to put us back to where we started, gradual progression since.

Screenshot_20200622-181035_Twitter.jpg

For me, it’s a lack of consistency that undermines any real ‘progress’.

These kind of supportive stats come along whenever we win a couple of games but we have had several very poor winless streaks, each of which would have seen him sacked at other clubs.

I really hope he sticks it to us by making the play-offs but having never got into the top 6 - largely because just when we get close he makes a host of unnecessary changes and we miss out - he still has a way to go.

And for all of this “largely the same squad and 6 academy graduates” (only one of which he can take personal credit for - the jury is still out on JRC but he may get to two), Mowbray has wasted an awful lot of money more than most other clubs in this division. Had he spent that 12m on buying a balanced squad that didn’t need to rely on so many youth players too soon he would get a lot more credit.

When his tombola machine drops the right numbers for the right game we can be brilliant but I can’t remember calling us that too often.

This is also the guy who stubbornly relegated us by keeping Jason Lowe as captain and playing him at all costs that sealed our relegation. He is doing the exact same again with Bennett, it’s just that he has turned around the awful squad that Coyle ruined so we are fitter than we were. The fact that he has followed Coyle makes many people stick to the “it could be worse” support.

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7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

For me, it’s a lack of consistency that undermines any real ‘progress’.

These kind of supportive stats come along whenever we win a couple of games but we have had several very poor winless streaks, each of which would have seen him sacked at other clubs.

I really hope he sticks it to us by making the play-offs but having never got into the top 6 - largely because just when we get close he makes a host of unnecessary changes and we miss out - he still has a way to go.

And for all of this “largely the same squad and 6 academy graduates” (only one of which he can take personal credit for - the jury is still out on JRC but he may get to two), Mowbray has wasted an awful lot of money more than most other clubs in this division. Had he spent that 12m on buying a balanced squad that didn’t need to rely on so many youth players too soon he would get a lot more credit.

When his tombola machine drops the right numbers for the right game we can be brilliant but I can’t remember calling us that too often.

This is also the guy who stubbornly relegated us by keeping Jason Lowe as captain and playing him at all costs that sealed our relegation. He is doing the exact same again with Bennett, it’s just that he has turned around the awful squad that Coyle ruined so we are fitter than we were. The fact that he has followed Coyle makes many people stick to the “it could be worse” support.

I think there has definitely been a progression, our team is definitely in a healthier state as you would expect with the resources and time he has had. The question would be have we progressed enough, I would say I am content with that too but felt the screenshot was making out that it was remarkable progress which is very hyperbolic. Mowbray has done a good job here.

I would say that people overlook his part in the relegation, although Coyle (and obviously the owners overall) has to take tbe vast majority. Mowbray came in to try and carry out a very difficult but not unachievable task of keeping us up. Theres no real validity in exteapolating results, he failed and that was a setback.

I also think that to try and justify a narrative of Rovers fans being over critical, many overlook the amount of praise, very justified as it was, that he received when he got us promoted. There have also been 3 points when his job was rightly discussed as if it should have been in the balance and the fact that he overcame each of the 3 situations does not mean that the criticism at all 3 times was unwarranted. 11 games into League 1 and we had already lost 4, when his neglect of the defence sent us spiralling last season and when we were 17th or 18th after a third of this season.

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9 minutes ago, Stuart said:

This is also the guy who stubbornly relegated us by keeping Jason Lowe as captain and playing him at all costs that sealed our relegation. He is doing the exact same again with Bennett, it’s just that he has turned around the awful squad that Coyle ruined so we are fitter than we were. The fact that he has followed Coyle makes many people stick to the “it could be worse” support.

Apologies if this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but otherwise that's an absolutely outrageous statement! Our form after he joined in February came in was just short of play off standard and it's not as though we had anyone to replace him with anyway!

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I think hands were tied in the case of Lowe whoever managed us he was going to be first on the team sheet if fit. 3 managers all the same when it came to him they just had to shoe him in somewhere despite at times having better options. And of course we know who set that ball rolling !

I never for a min bought the 'they all rated him' line there was more to it than that. The state of his career once he'd left here showed the real thoughts on him once out of his rovers comfort zone.

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20 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Apologies if this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but otherwise that's an absolutely outrageous statement! Our form after he joined in February came in was just short of play off standard and it's not as though we had anyone to replace him with anyway!

The fact that our form or results would have extrapolated to this that or the other is irrelevant and flawed. He came in with a difficult but not impossible task of keeping us up which he failed at. He came close but he failed. 

Another flaw regarding extrapolating results is you look at some of the teams we beat near the end of the season, Villa, Brentford etc, they had nothing to play for.

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28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The fact that our form or results would have extrapolated to this that or the other is irrelevant and flawed. He came in with a difficult but not impossible task of keeping us up which he failed at. He came close but he failed. 

Another flaw regarding extrapolating results is you look at some of the teams we beat near the end of the season, Villa, Brentford etc, they had nothing to play for.

It would be flawed if you try to extrapolate our final position over a season, but I'm not.

I'm saying that claiming TM relegated us by 'stubbornly keeping Lowe as captain and playing him at all costs' is an incredible thing to say when 1) we were picking up a healthy number of points and 2) we were so thin on quality and numbers there that we didn't have anyone to replace him with anyway.

 

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11 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

It would be flawed if you try to extrapolate our final position over a season, but I'm not.

I'm saying that claiming TM relegated us by 'stubbornly keeping Lowe as captain and playing him at all costs' is an incredible thing to say when 1) we were picking up a healthy number of points and 2) we were so thin on quality and numbers there that we didn't have anyone to replace him with anyway.

 

Id agree that the comment on Lowe was harsh and I have never underplayed that it was a difficult (if achievable) task but a "healthy number of points" would have led to survival so that is untrue.

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2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I think there has definitely been a progression, our team is definitely in a healthier state as you would expect with the resources and time he has had. The question would be have we progressed enough, I would say I am content with that too but felt the screenshot was making out that it was remarkable progress which is very hyperbolic. Mowbray has done a good job here.

I would say that people overlook his part in the relegation, although Coyle (and obviously the owners overall) has to take tbe vast majority. Mowbray came in to try and carry out a very difficult but not unachievable task of keeping us up. Theres no real validity in exteapolating results, he failed and that was a setback.

I also think that to try and justify a narrative of Rovers fans being over critical, many overlook the amount of praise, very justified as it was, that he received when he got us promoted. There have also been 3 points when his job was rightly discussed as if it should have been in the balance and the fact that he overcame each of the 3 situations does not mean that the criticism at all 3 times was unwarranted. 11 games into League 1 and we had already lost 4, when his neglect of the defence sent us spiralling last season and when we were 17th or 18th after a third of this season.

He's had a lot of time to improve us though and has been backed financially. There has been progress but slow and hardly spectacular. I don't believe he will ever take us up or keep us there if he did.

Just an average manager who simply looks good because of the dross which preceded him.

If there is a serious intention to get us up, at some point someone is going to have to bite the bullet.

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Being relegated certainly doesn't fall on Mowbray's shoulders, and while bouncing straight back is never an easy feat it was what everyone expected of him. It comes down to how you rate the 15th place our first year back in the Championship (jury is still out regarding the current season, naturally). I'd say it's a good result, particularly since the spine of the team were mostly players Mowbray either brought in or got performing to a higher standard. Sure, Coyle might take credit for first bringing Raya, Nyambe and Lenihan into the team towards the end of his tenure, but it was Mowbray who got them performing on a high Championship level rather than as relegation candidates. 

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Here's hoping Tony can conjure up a 12 match winning run now.

If we make it to the Premier League, I think we'd have more chance teaching a stone to swim than Mowbray keeping us up.

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3 hours ago, philipl said:

Here's hoping Tony can conjure up a 12 match winning run now.

If we make it to the Premier League, I think we'd have more chance teaching a stone to swim than Mowbray keeping us up.

Pumice stone!

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Posted (edited)

Lockdown gave time for reflection and it has to be said he's a good steady manager at this level who has a habit of pulling out the stops when backs are to the wall.

Also has a bad habit(s) of contributing to undoing some of his good work and his use of large transfer fees is truly bad.

Overall though got to be a B- grade for me up to this point.

Edited by tomphil

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