Tony Mowbray Discussion

[RevidgeBlue]

55 minutes ago, Gav said:

Yes that £400k he spent on transfer this season will definitely make us promotion candidates, coupled with the £1m he spent last season........

Going up going up going up........come on Wheelton, you're better than that.

 

And of course Premier League Clubs let their players like Elliott, Harwood Bellis,  Douglas, Trybull and Branthwaite out on loan for nothing and the players themselves play for nothing out of the goodness of their hearts..........

Probably at least another £3m in loan fees plus very substantial wages on top of the "£1m".

Plus our contribution to Poveda's wages this season alone is more than the £400 k figure you've plucked out of thin air from somewhere.

Edited November 22, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher is certainly not an abysmal signing nor a dream/one of the first names on the teamsheet, or he shouldn't be.

Can't hold the ball up, bring others into play, as bad at you'll find at any of that, but a reasonable goal return and plenty of powerful running means that abysmal is not fair, and I am far from his biggest fan.

Sorry, couldn't disagree more, there must be tens of players at all levels throughout the Leagues who could run about a bit and chip in the odd goal without costing £5m and costing £20k p.w. in wages.

Or anywhere near that. If you were debating buying him today you'd struggle to make a case out for paying £500k for him.

[Gav]

54 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

You're just caveating it to suit your narative.

 

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I started off earlier today by saying Mowbrays business when a transfer fee is involved is excellent, referring to Kaminski on Saturday and I have no reason to change that opinion. 

 

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I described his business when paying a transfer fee as excellent, if you want to provide evidence to the contrary, the floor is yours. 

Quite simply not true Wheelton.

Bit of advice, read the context before wading in.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gav

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Nobody is disputing that. But it is what the Rovers agreed to.

When you say the 'Rovers' you surely mean JA, SEM, Kentaro, Cresendo and Kean.

[tomphil]

23 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sorry, couldn't disagree more, there must be tens of players at all levels throughout the Leagues who could run about a bit and chip in the odd goal without costing £5m and costing £20k p.w. in wages.

Or anywhere near that. If you were debating buying him today you'd struggle to make a case out for paying £500k for him.

Whilst i'm not as down on Gallagher as you and some others you are quite correct in the first paragraph.

I do feel though that used correctly he can make a good contribution but the money should have been used wiser.

[Gav]

 

43 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The abysmal Gallagher £5m and £20k p.w.

You're making yourself look very silly indeed now Gav.

I asked you this morning which players Mowbray has paid a transfer fee for, that are 'duffers' as you put it?

So far you've come up with Gallagher, who is far from abysmal, Chris Brown was abysmal.

As for looking silly, your continued support of Venkys speaks louder than anything I could ever post to make you look silly Rev, wake up for goodness sake.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gav

[JacknOry]

6 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

A  few still don't understand that the way Rovers have played this "sale" is consummate with FFP rules and that this practice is now no longer allowed in the Football League. You could actually say they played a blinder on this point.

Played a blinder? Are you on mind-altering drugs?

 

[JacknOry]

Roverite, let me give you an example.

You think we have played a blinder by selling our assets. 

Millwalls record signing is 1 million. Yes, 1 million. Do we finish much better than them in most seasons?

Its a complete mismanagement of funds, and a stupid transfer policy that got us in this position. Yet you're calling it a genius move to sell off our training ground?

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by JacknOry

[tomphil]

Transferring ownership of the training ground in return for an injection of funds to keep us in business is the stuff of desperation.

I simply cannot believe some are actually even thinking this sets us up for being able to spend again. Even if so how much do you really think will be available to invest in the team after even more losses are plugged ?

Ditch the mellow birds and sniff something stronger lads.

[JacknOry]

At this level, 5mil and 7 mil strikers should be tearing this league apart. We have had to wait 3 years for BB to get anywhere near being good, and SG is a converted 6 foot winger. People can call Dack and AA all day long, but wasting that money on those two is criminal.

Edited November 22, 2021 by JacknOry

[rigger]

53 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When you say the 'Rovers' you surely mean JA, SEM, Kentaro, Cresendo and Kean.

At the time, right or wrong, they where the Rovers's representatives. The contract was between The Rovers and Kean was it not ?

Edited November 22, 2021 by rigger

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

And of course Premier League Clubs let their players like Elliott, Harwood Bellis,  Douglas, Trybull and Branthwaite out on loan for nothing and the players themselves play for nothing out of the goodness of their hearts..........

Probably at least another £3m in loan fees plus very substantial wages on top of the "£1m".

Plus our contribution to Poveda's wages this season alone is more than the £400 k figure you've plucked out of thin air from somewhere.

You are yourself plucking figures out of thin air.

Mowbray has said on countless occasions that he does not ideally like to sign players on loan deals and that he would always prefer permanent players. He also said in the summer that he was unable to even sign experience on loan because the selling club would want a significant wage contribution, whereas with younger players you can loan them by selling them the idea that they can gain experience, pointing to past examples including Elliott. I therefore think that in my opinion, it is almost certain that the signings in the summer were done so basically because that is all that we could afford.

The only player out of those that I have seen the wage contribution of reported in the media was when Rich Sharpe said that we contributed only 2k a week towards the Trybull loan, and even then you take it with a pinch of salt.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sorry, couldn't disagree more, there must be tens of players at all levels throughout the Leagues who could run about a bit and chip in the odd goal without costing £5m and costing £20k p.w. in wages.

Or anywhere near that. If you were debating buying him today you'd struggle to make a case out for paying £500k for him.

You certainly won't hear me defend Gallagher on a value for money basis, the wage again is a guess but 5m as a fee is widely reported and he certainly isn't worth that. He is not a player that I wanted us to sign or I rate highly but he does chip in with goals and there are certainly worse attackers in the league.

I was just calling you out for suggesting that he has been "abysmal" or indeed in regards to suggesting that Mowbray's general transfer record is quite as bad as you seem keen to make out. I would suggest that it is ok, I suspect that once Brereton is sold we will be well in profit under him, but both permanently and on loan, there have been some brilliant signings, some poor ones and a lot in between. Perhaps indicative of his general career here, pretty decent, never threatening to be excellent in general but certainly not dreadful though.

The reason that I feel like you are doing that is evident based on your ongoing debate with Gav in which you are very much solely focusing on Mowbray/Waggott and Gav is very consistent in suggesting that Venkys are the common denominator. The difference is that (unsure if it is based on the cryptic whispers that you seem so invested in) you won't overly engage in any Venkys based criticism even realising that they are the ones that continue to employ the 2 figures that you despise, whereas Gav again suggested before that he would like a change of manager and that Mowbray has outstayed his welcome. Gallagher or our general transfer record in the last 5 years being described as "abysmal" is the sort of hyperbole that can then focus angst back onto Mowbray, even if it is exaggerated.

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Whilst i'm not as down on Gallagher as you and some others you are quite correct in the first paragraph.

I do feel though that used correctly he can make a good contribution but the money should have been used wiser.

I think that’s a very fair summation mate 👍🏻

[simongarnerisgod]

54 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

At this level, 5mil and 7 mil strikers should be tearing this league apart. We have had to wait 3 years for BB to get anywhere near being good, and SG is a converted 6 foot winger. People can call Dack and AA all day long, but wasting that money on those two is criminal.

they were bought when "defenders were supposed to be coming" which is where the money should have been spent,seeing as we had a defence like a sieve,tony,in his infinite wisdom,blamed raya, left two converted midfielders(mulgrew and rodwell) at the back😨 and brought in gally and ben,we`ll never get a return on gally and for seven million quid you expect your signing to be ready to start scoring goals,not wait until 3 seasons after,harry wilson was the same price and immediately he started  tearing the leagues defences to shreds

[RoversClitheroe]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The abysmal Gallagher £5m and £20k p.w.

Brereton was not really what we needed either when we lashed out £7m on him. Mowbray subsequently compounded that by ignoring him completely  for 18 months, the net result being that even though he's finally come good we're likely to lose him for nothing or a fraction of his true worth.

You're making yourself look very silly indeed now Gav.

Absolutely spot on.

Brereton was a position we didn't need at all, we were screaming for a spread of that £7m across the whole squad so it wasnt so disproportionately unbalanced.

It took 2 season for Breo to be a good signing (who is set to be out of contract)

Whilst Mowbray also wasted Gallagher and played him out of position constantly.

Mowbray has been well below average in the transfer market.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

You are yourself plucking figures out of thin air.

Mowbray has said on countless occasions that he does not ideally like to sign players on loan deals and that he would always prefer permanent players. He also said in the summer that he was unable to even sign experience on loan because the selling club would want a significant wage contribution, whereas with younger players you can loan them by selling them the idea that they can gain experience, pointing to past examples including Elliott. I therefore think that in my opinion, it is almost certain that the signings in the summer were done so basically because that is all that we could afford.

The only player out of those that I have seen the wage contribution of reported in the media was when Rich Sharpe said that we contributed only 2k a week towards the Trybull loan, and even then you take it with a pinch of salt.

You certainly won't hear me defend Gallagher on a value for money basis, the wage again is a guess but 5m as a fee is widely reported and he certainly isn't worth that. He is not a player that I wanted us to sign or I rate highly but he does chip in with goals and there are certainly worse attackers in the league.

I was just calling you out for suggesting that he has been "abysmal" or indeed in regards to suggesting that Mowbray's general transfer record is quite as bad as you seem keen to make out. I would suggest that it is ok, I suspect that once Brereton is sold we will be well in profit under him, but both permanently and on loan, there have been some brilliant signings, some poor ones and a lot in between. Perhaps indicative of his general career here, pretty decent, never threatening to be excellent in general but certainly not dreadful though.

The reason that I feel like you are doing that is evident based on your ongoing debate with Gav in which you are very much solely focusing on Mowbray/Waggott and Gav is very consistent in suggesting that Venkys are the common denominator. The difference is that (unsure if it is based on the cryptic whispers that you seem so invested in) you won't overly engage in any Venkys based criticism even realising that they are the ones that continue to employ the 2 figures that you despise, whereas Gav again suggested before that he would like a change of manager and that Mowbray has outstayed his welcome. Gallagher or our general transfer record in the last 5 years being described as "abysmal" is the sort of hyperbole that can then focus angst back onto Mowbray, even if it is exaggerated.

I agree whole heartedlywith you that whilst I (unlike most) am prepared to sit back and wait for a reasonable period to see if these "whispers" come to fruition, the continued employment of Waggott and Mowbray seems to run directly contrary in that regard to any hope of improvement or change.

So if "hyperbole" is what it needs to shift him, so be it. You'll never succeed with a poor manager, even if you have excellent owners.

[roversfan99]

29 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Absolutely spot on.

Brereton was a position we didn't need at all, we were screaming for a spread of that £7m across the whole squad so it wasnt so disproportionately unbalanced.

It took 2 season for Breo to be a good signing (who is set to be out of contract)

Whilst Mowbray also wasted Gallagher and played him out of position constantly.

Mowbray has been well below average in the transfer market.

His main 3 signings financially have been Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher and between the 3, they are already close to generating a profit on fees from one sale, so when the second is sold (his contract technically ends in 2023) we will generate a profit. Gallagher is the poorest of the 3, but still isn't a total dud and the narrative about him being a wasted striker is for me proving disingenuous because when he plays centrally, especially this season, he is arguably less effective.

I can't understand how personal bias/agenda aside, his transfer record could be seen as well below average. Average would be about right for me, and probably is proof of the theory that a manager is only as good as his recruitment, some obvious highlights but overall, mixed, ok, no more or less.

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I agree whole heartedlywith you that whilst I (unlike most) am prepared to sit back and wait for a reasonable period to see if these "whispers" come to fruition, the continued employment of Waggott and Mowbray seems to run directly contrary in that regard to any hope of improvement or change.

So if "hyperbole" is what it needs to shift him, so be it. You'll never succeed with a poor manager, even if you have excellent owners.

Excellent owners would seldom appoint a poor manager, but everyone makes mistakes. So excellent owners would ensure that any underperforming managers are removed at the correct time. Owners and their managerial choices are interconnected, indeed a manager is as key as any in the performance of a set of owners.

Hyperbole won't shift him either, nothing we say or do will. So whilst debating on here, we may aswell try to be balanced and reasonable.

[1864roverite]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Roverite, let me give you an example.

You think we have played a blinder by selling our assets. 

Millwalls record signing is 1 million. Yes, 1 million. Do we finish much better than them in most seasons?

Its a complete mismanagement of funds, and a stupid transfer policy that got us in this position. Yet you're calling it a genius move to sell off our training ground?

 

 

 

Again someone hasn’t read my post properly! I said some might say they played a blinder, I never said I said they had played a blinder!

There has been gross mismanagement of money over 11 years of waste. I know this like many other Rovers fans, I also know the owners realise this even more so with events of the last 18 months or so.

I wonder how many fans realise money was still being paid out up to the end of last season for premiership failures?

Where then hell have I ever referred to it as a genius act? It was a necessary act to prevent the club being in a similar situation as Derby and reading and was something that was done to allow funding to be spent more wisely. 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Excellent owners would seldom appoint a poor manager, but everyone makes mistakes. So excellent owners would ensure that any underperforming managers are removed at the correct time. Owners and their managerial choices are interconnected, indeed a manager is as key as any in the performance of a set of owners.

Quite correct. Like I said, you will never succeed with a poor manager no matter how good the owners, or no matter how much money you throw at it.

As a point of order I didn't say our owners were "excellent" owners, it would be hard to argue that on their track record to date.

I do believe however they are genuinely committed to the Club and they do seem to have a remarkable capacity to inject as much money into the Club as is currently permissible under the regulations.

That is not something you dismiss lightly and you discard it at your peril imo.

Edited November 22, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[Gav]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Quite correct. Like I said, you will never succeed with a poor manager no matter how good the owners, or no matter how much money you throw at it.

You will never succeed with abysmal owners, no matter how much money you throw at it. 

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

You will never succeed with abysmal owners, no matter how much money you throw at it. 

Just off the top of my head, 

West Ham? 

Watford?

Look at the number of times that the admirable Steve Gibson at Boro has had to try and roll the dice to achieve success  over the years. We're currently above them in the table, I wouldn't say that makes Venky's better owners than Steve Gibson.

 

[Gav]

32 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Just off the top of my head, 

West Ham? 

Watford?

Look at the number of times that the admirable Steve Gibson at Boro has had to try and roll the dice to achieve success  over the years. We're currently above them in the table, I wouldn't say that makes Venky's better owners than Steve Gibson.

 

I’m sorry Rev, but that has to be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read on this site, I don’t even know where to start.

Abysmal owners aren’t sat 4th in Premiership, 16th in Premiership or kept Boro in between Premiership and championship for the past 30yrs, ala Blackburn Rovers and Jack Walker. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gav

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, Gav said:

In recent seasons we'd have lost that game on Saturday imo, we didn't lose, we gained a point in my book.

We also saw another Mowbray signing standing up to be counted, the excellent Thomas Kaminski. In a week where he was called up to the full Belgium national side, his value increases further, Mowbray can certainly spot a player.

Not all bad is it Rev.

 

I haven't rated him so far but from what I saw of Saturday's game it looks like he's stepped up his game.

[Sparks Rover]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

I’m sorry Rev, but that has to be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read on this site, I don’t even know where to start.

Abysmal owners aren’t sat 4th in Premiership, 16th in Premiership or kept Boro in between Premiership and championship for the past 30yrs, ala Blackburn Rovers and Jack Walker. 

Go speak to hammers fans, they hate gold an sullivan. Rev is spot on

Edited November 22, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

What are you on about now?

Nobody is praising them for having to put money in, but it's better than they have funded him a bit, but not very much. He has found some gems; Dack, Armstrong and Brereton are arguably the best attacking players we have had in the championship.