Tony Mowbray Discussion

[BRFC4EVA]

On another note Ainsworth's Wycombe have just thumped top of the table and division form side plymouth 3 nil away from home..

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

If you look at the players bought for a fee, which is where you’re more likely to see any sell on value, Spartakfenni was saying the remit was young English players to develop and sell on:

Dack, Cairney, Duffy, Gallagher, Brereton, Dolan (Free), Rothwell, Armstrong off the top of my head.

Those players seem to fit the bill perfectly and align with what Fenni was saying. 

Yes but giving 2 and 3 year deals to the likes of Ayala,Johnson and Holtby and then the shorter term players , Rodwell and Downing, these fellas were on more money at their previous clubs than our highest earner, logically they would have been compensated with significant signing on fees.Johnson isnt walking away from a lucrative  year at Derby to come here for a lot less.

 

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yes but giving 2 and 3 year deals to the likes of Ayala,Johnson and Holtby and then the shorter term players , Rodwell and Downing, these fellas were on more money at their previous clubs than our highest earner, logically they would have been compensated with significant signing on fees.Johnson isnt walking away from a lucrative  year at Derby to come here for a lot less.

 

Maybe you missed the point being made by posters earlier, have a read back, it was centred around Balaji wanting to spend a few quid to develop players and sell them on, not squad players with no sell on value.

[47er]

8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

His contract certainly didn't reward failure - it mitigated the risk of high salary and bonuses being paid if were relegated.

 

I repeat, why would there be any sort of bonus at all for taking the club down 2 divisions? Why is that clause in there?

Do you believe any other manager had such a provision? Something dodgy here as there was about the whole takeover.

[islander200]

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

Maybe you missed the point being made by posters earlier, have a read back, it was centred around Balaji wanting to spend a few quid to develop players and sell them on, not squad players with no sell on value.

No i understood but the other deals Ayala,Johnson ,Holtby werent really free transfers over the terms of their contracts and whatever signing on fees involved were expensive deals, Brererton is on a reported 4k a week here.Ayala ,Holtby and Johnson on 20+ at their previous clubs.No return on investment coming from that outlay and commitment unless promotion

Edited November 23, 2021 by islander200

[roversfan99]

Not every player should be signed to make a profit on, and conversation about wages and signing on fees is purely speculative. 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not every player should be signed to make a profit on, and conversation about wages and signing on fees is purely speculative. 

It isnt speculative, if you want to believe those players took a significant drop in wages to come here without something to compensate  it then id say you are living in a fairytale.

 

[islander200]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not every player should be signed to make a profit on, and conversation about wages and signing on fees is purely speculative. 

And not every player has been signed for a profit.Isnt that the point im making with those 3 mentioned?

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Can you provide evidence to back up your quotes, don’t include journalists other itk’s. Hard evidence please

Why are you asking him for hard evidence when you won't provide any for your assertion BB was a "Balaji purchase"

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

No i understood but the other deals Ayala,Johnson ,Holtby werent really free transfers over the terms of their contracts and whatever signing on fees involved were expensive deals, Brererton is on a reported 4k a week here.Ayala ,Holtby and Johnson on 20+ at their previous clubs.No return on investment coming from that outlay and commitment unless promotion

I find it hard to believe a 7m player only get 4k.  That's a league 1 wage.  He will be off for free in my opinion 

[booth]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

His agent was drawing up the contract and allegedly practically running the club at the time

As confirmed by the John Williams letter and himself on Sky Sports.

[Spartakfenni]

9 hours ago, islander200 said:

Yes but giving 2 and 3 year deals to the likes of Ayala,Johnson and Holtby and then the shorter term players , Rodwell and Downing, these fellas were on more money at their previous clubs than our highest earner, logically they would have been compensated with significant signing on fees.Johnson isnt walking away from a lucrative  year at Derby to come here for a lot less.

 

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

[Ulrich]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

I repeat, why would there be any sort of bonus at all for taking the club down 2 divisions? Why is that clause in there?

Do you believe any other manager had such a provision? Something dodgy here as there was about the whole takeover.

It suggests they expected to end up in league one, almost as if it was planned.

[Gav]

44 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

Right, but you’ll happily use your own opinion (which in itself is conjecture), whilst demanding other people supply evidence, which you then dismiss as conjecture.

Okay then.

[tomphil]

Does Barry want promotion or just investment signings and kids to sell on so his pals in the middle can make their cut ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Where is the match thread?? 

[islander200]

2 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

Johnson had one year left on his derby contract actually.

Derby thought his legs were gone so Mowbray gives the green light for a 2 + 1 year contract for him?Great decision making and management

Where is your evidence Brererton was a Balaji signing?

Edited November 24, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

Yet Mowbray confirmed that Celina who joined Swansea for 8 million was close only for Swansea offered better wages.

If the money was only for a young striker how do you explain the multiple bids for Luke Freeman at QPR that summer, a 26 year old and an attacking midfielder?

If thats your opinion about Brereton then fair enough but why have you been praising Mowbray for the signing so?

Edited November 24, 2021 by islander200

[Gav]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yet Mowbray confirmed that Celina who joined Swansea for 8 million was close only for Swansea offered better wages.

If the money was only for a young striker how do you explain the multiple bids for Luke Freeman at QPR that summer, a 26 year old and an attacking midfielder?

If thats your opinion about Brereton then fair enough but why have you been praising Mowbray for the signing so?

My apologies Islander, I shouldn't have said striker, young domestic players like Dack, Cairney, Duffy, Gallagher, Brereton, Dolan (Free), Rothwell, Armstrong as I mentioned to you last night.

As for your final question on Brereton, Mowbray picked and developed the player, Balaji paid for it, Mowbray gets the praise surely? He's certainly had pelters for the past 2 seasons for him being cr@p......you can't have it both ways.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

My apologies Islander, I shouldn't have said striker, young domestic players like Dack, Cairney, Duffy, Gallagher, Brereton, Dolan (Free), Rothwell, Armstrong as I mentioned to you last night.

As for your final question on Brereton, Mowbray picked and developed the player, Balaji paid for it, Mowbray gets the praise surely? He's certainly had pelters for the past 2 seasons for him being cr@p......you can't have it both ways.

The owners pay for every signing so what makes the Brererton deal different that Balajis name is being brought into it?

Luke Freeman who we had multiple bids turned down for that summer was 26.

Mowbray had money to spend that summer,we had multiple bids turned down for other players.Forest didnt make Brererton available until very late in rhe window, even hiring an agent to get him sold.He was offered to the club

And if the club remit is to sign young domestic players with room for growth and potential profit then what is the problem with that?

Surely that would be the sensible way to run our club with the income we have.

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The owners pay for every signing so what makes the Brererton deal different that Balajis name is being brought into it?

Luke Freeman who we had multiple bids turned down for that summer was 26.

Mowbray had money to spend that summer,we had multiple bids turned down for other players.Forest didnt make Brererton available until very late in rhe window, even hiring an agent to get him sold.He was offered to the club

And if the club remit is to sign young domestic players with room for growth and potential profit then what is the problem with that?

Surely that would be the sensible way to run our club with the income we have.

I've given my opinion on the Balaji factor already.

Brereton wasn't available at all until we weighed in with a bid they couldn't turn down, that came out of the blue and took Forest and everyone else by surprise. 

[Gone to seed]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Where is the match thread?? 

Port Out Starboard Home = POSH = Peterborough = Keep up!!

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

I've given my opinion on the Balaji factor already.

Brereton wasn't available at all until we weighed in with a bid they couldn't turn down, that came out of the blue and took Forest and everyone else by surprise. 

Your last paragraph is simply not true.Check it back.Brereton was made available by forest they needed money brought in as they had spent big that summer.It was highly publicised at the time that Forest were touting him to other clubs and even hired an agent to get a deal done.They stated at the time they wouldnt be selling for less than 7 million.

And as for Balaji wanting to show off to his mates over making profit on a young player(you mentioned Rhodes earlier).The owners did not want to sell Rhodes, i know for a fact that we turned down bigger bids than the 1 we eventually accepted and Rhodes wanted out way before we sold him.

And even after we sold him we hardly made a profit considering we paid 8 million for him and been paying him 35 grand a week

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

I agree. The cash we spent on Brereton I don't believe was available to Mowbray from the start of the summer window and had strings attached - it could only be spent on a certain category of player.

I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that the money could have been split into 2-3 decent sums invested into 2-3 different positions, because if it could Mowbray woud have done that instead.

It has too many similarities to the Rhodes deal - last minute, sudden, unexpected splash of the cash to such an amount the selling club couldn't say no.

I suspect it was a bonus that Mowbray felt forced to use due to pressure from upstairs and also the risk that it wouldn't be there in future windows if he didn't spend it there and then.

This is life in Venky world.