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Transfer Window - Morton & Sammie Sign


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16 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

What if they don't take their debt with them? This is the horrendous position we find ourselves in.

It isn't loaded on the club though, is it?

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18 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

What if they don't take their debt with them? This is the horrendous position we find ourselves in.

Look at Bolton Wanderers , in a far healthy position than we are ...

Inside 2 seasons Bolton will be above us ..

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1 minute ago, BigUts said:

It isn't loaded on the club though, is it?

I've read stuff to that effect by people that know what they're talking about but it still doesn't seem right. If it is then it might be what is preventing them from leaving as they aren't prepared to write off £200m plus. Meanwhile we continue to exist in a nightmare of stasis and paralysis with seemingly no end.

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35 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

JH I don’t think anybody doubts that the Venkys are responsible for where we are but why do you keep pretending like FFP is not a big issue

We regularly over spend, even after this cost cutting. Other clubs are just better ran economically 

Say we wanted to increase our wage budget by £10,000 p/wk, already across the first team, that equates to £520,000 per year 

So for every £10k we need another half a million. That’s not including bonuses and fees that have become part and parcel of the modern football contract 

So if you think you can increase turnover of a company by half a million in 12 months then I would suggest you are in the wrong job. That’s quite the sum.

In the spirit of fairness I will say this is firmly at the doorstep of Venkys. If we say we have lost about 5,000 regular season ticket holders since they have come, at an average of £300 quid a ticket, that’s £1.5m they have lost us in yearly turnover. Or £30k a week. 
 

I genuinely do not believe we will get them 5,000 back unless the Venkys sell or we reach the premier league. Regardless of how much marketing or pricing initiatives they will not come back until we reach the dizzying heights of the Prem but I am all ears on how you plan to do it 

It's worth pointing out that in addition to the numbers you quote you have to add on Employers National Insurance - now 15.05% - plus any premiums for insurance that the club take out for players wages if they get injured. That takes the annual cost for the £10k per week over £600k.

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22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

A portion of them are because of the relegation, which I suppose is also the fault of Venkys

I think around 5,000 would come back immediately if they sold the club

I’d say keeping Kean on in summer 2012 was the main driver of the collapse, most clubs don’t come close to losing 40% of ST holders on relegation - we did!

But yes, one bone headed, arrogant decision after another has got us into this mess.

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44 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

JH I don’t think anybody doubts that the Venkys are responsible for where we are but why do you keep pretending like FFP is not a big issue

We regularly over spend, even after this cost cutting. Other clubs are just better ran economically 

Say we wanted to increase our wage budget by £10,000 p/wk, already across the first team, that equates to £520,000 per year 

So for every £10k we need another half a million. That’s not including bonuses and fees that have become part and parcel of the modern football contract 

So if you think you can increase turnover of a company by half a million in 12 months then I would suggest you are in the wrong job. That’s quite the sum.

In the spirit of fairness I will say this is firmly at the doorstep of Venkys. If we say we have lost about 5,000 regular season ticket holders since they have come, at an average of £300 quid a ticket, that’s £1.5m they have lost us in yearly turnover. Or £30k a week. 
 

I genuinely do not believe we will get them 5,000 back unless the Venkys sell or we reach the premier league. Regardless of how much marketing or pricing initiatives they will not come back until we reach the dizzying heights of the Prem but I am all ears on how you plan to do it 

I agree with most of that but don’t forget 28,000 turned out for the Oxford game.  That doesn’t even include me because I was on holiday ! Then this lot allowed Mowbray to dissipate that feel good fact almost immediately.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Doesn't bode well though, does it? You'd have expected the new manager to have a mind some players he'd like, and that one of two might be on their way by now.  

I've said my piece.

Broughton and Tomasson are the two most qualified appointments we've made during the Venky's reign of terror. 

The Venky's have backed managers in the past - we've splashed enough cash on enough dross over the last decade. If they don't back these two then it's a change of tack from them - and both will be off sharpish. 

I'm concerned, but I'm not going to be sat here wringing my hands with the usual suspects because we haven't brought in half the Malmo or Bodø/Glimt squads 3 weeks into their tenure. 

I'm on record as saying we're fucked if we don't bring in 6+ starting quality players this transfer window - I stand by that. The Academy graduates can only be relied upon at this early stage as squad filler. 

Edited by Exiled_Rover
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Genuinely in shock as to how little links we have been credited with. Genuine or paper talk, at least it’s something to mull over for a day or two. Hopefully pace picks up next week once Sharpe back off holiday, but then again he’s more of a regurgitator of known information, rather than an exclusive news breaker.

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6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I agree with most of that but don’t forget 28,000 turned out for the Oxford game.  That doesn’t even include me because I was on holiday ! Then this lot allowed Mowbray to dissipate that feel good fact almost immediately.

Thousands of them just showed up to storm the pitch.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

It is loaded on the club, I'm afraid. The most recent published set of accounts - as at 30 June 2021- showed an amount of £130m owed by the club to Venkys London Limited.

Where does this leave the club should Venkys decide that they've had enough and they're off?

Edited by Gordon Ottershaw
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2 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

Beyond horrific.

Their man man just recycles whatever Sharpe posts.

If we're lucky he does this.

Most of the articles he's posted are to do with our departures and interviews with them. Latest one being Park - why do I care that he's at Rangers now? Yesterday he published an interview with Lenihan who now plays for Boro. Absolute garbage.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ruaney said:

If we're lucky he does this.

Most of the articles he's posted are to do with our departures and interviews with them. Latest one being Park - why do I care that he's at Rangers now? Yesterday he published an interview with Lenihan who now plays for Boro. Absolute garbage.

 

Yeah apparently Tony sent Lenihen a lovely message congratulating him on his move to Boro

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8 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

Where does this leave the club should Venkys decide that they've had enough and they're off?

The accounts state that the debt is interest free and has no fixed date for repayment. It does not appear to be secured on any of the remaining assets of the club. There will likely be something in the documents setting up the loan which provide for a period to pass before the creditors can demand repayment. If the debt cannot be repaid then the creditors can apply to have the club put in to administration.

At the moment the club seems to be spending in the region of £15m to £20m a year more than the revenue that is generated. If there is no new owner prepared to buy the club then almost every player will have to be sold and the academy closed down.

You only have to look at Derby to see what happens if an owner decides they have had enough of a loss making club.

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3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The accounts state that the debt is interest free and has no fixed date for repayment. It does not appear to be secured on any of the remaining assets of the club. There will likely be something in the documents setting up the loan which provide for a period to pass before the creditors can demand repayment. If the debt cannot be repaid then the creditors can apply to have the club put in to administration.

At the moment the club seems to be spending in the region of £15m to £20m a year more than the revenue that is generated. If there is no new owner prepared to buy the club then almost every player will have to be sold and the academy closed down.

You only have to look at Derby to see what happens if an owner decides they have had enough of a loss making club.

Part of me thinks 'Bring it on, let's get it over with'.

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23 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

It is loaded on the club, I'm afraid. The most recent published set of accounts - as at 30 June 2021- showed an amount of £130m owed by the club to Venkys London Limited.

As far as Im aware, that's not correct.

Technically the money is owed to the parent company but the loans aren't secured against the Club  so there is no realistic expectation of them getting that money back short of us having a lengthy stint in the Premier League. As things stand the owners have shown no inclination of going anywhere for the foreseeable future, quite the opposite in fact and in my opinion if they were that worried by the losses which have been racking up  they would have departed  the scene long ago.

The only caveat to that is the exercise with the training ground which was carried out to ensure FFP compliance. If they were that way inclined they could liquidate that separately to the Club but then again as owners they could have done that at any point anyway.

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  • Herbie6590 changed the title to Transfer Window - Morton & Sammie Sign

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