Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[roversfan99]

I do hope that the above rhetoric on Gallagher is just a case of Mowbray trying to boost Gallagher's confidence because if he was our striker and main goal threat for a season, we would struggle for goals, he certainly does not have being a 20 goal striker or indeed being able to do many of the basics as a striker in his armoury. That being said, maybe it is a hint towards another summer of Venkys pocketing a big sale and reinvesting none of it.

The Poveda bit does not warrant such anger either. It is I imagine pretty normal for a manager to not negotiate the exact terms of each incoming signing, he should be judged on the success/failure of the individual players, in Poveda's case, it has not been a good loan albeit with mitigating circumstances.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, yankfan said:

This sums it up.  He can’t see how bad Sam has been, thinks he could score 20+ played as a center forward but continues to play him wide. 

 

”The Rovers boss even hinted that Gallagher could be in line to replace Brereton Diaz should the Chile international leave the club this summer.

 

“I played Sam down the middle and usually play him on the right and ask him to run those channels and get in at the back stick from balls coming in from the other side,” said Mowbray, via Lancashire Telegraph.

“I’m pleased for him that he scored, it was a good finish. He scored a good header at the back stick against Derby a couple of games ago, so he can score goals.

“Maybe for this football club, if Brereton gets sold in the summer, whether he does or he doesn’t is another issue but he’ll be in the last year of his contract, and if that’s something that happens then someone is going to have to step up.

“Maybe Sam Gallagher is the player that can turn into the 20-goal a season striker as Brereton did on the back of Armstrong leaving.”

Or we could spend some of the combined £35million fees we'll have received for him and Armstrong?

[yankfan]

10 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Or we could spend some of the combined £35million fees we'll have received for him and Armstrong?

Hahaha…good one! 

[AllRoverAsia]

Mowbray will know how much each player costs including wages.

He knows what the overall transfer budget is - why else does he go to India for ....... oh yes his contract too.

How else is he to know what's left for others on his lists, assuming there are lists ....

BTW he has touted Venus as a financial wizard in such things as contracts. That's right, Venus, the mate he got another gig for.

[simongarnerisgod]

judging by the let comments above,mowbray thinks he`s playing football manager on the pc,gallagher has basic skills and obviously does`nt understand your mumbo jumbo tactics tony,whenever he does appear in the middle he usually is good for a goal or two,he`s never going to 20 a season though,the anticipation that makes a decent centre forward is`nt there,he does his bit for the team though and for a big lad he can shift

[tomphil]

If Sam or someone is to step up we ain't reinvesting any BBD money there's the first clue right there.

Also if that was the plan then there'd quite obviously have to be yet another change in style of play because Gallagher is a center forward. Nothing more nothing less despite what professor Tone tries to make him into it isn't happening, yet we don't play with CFs plus there is Dack to consider.

More muddling next season to look forwards to.

[chaddyrovers]

On 11/04/2022 at 15:25, roversfan99 said:

Did you not name Ryan Mason who has only ever managed in a very brief interim role at Spurs, and Jason Wilcox who has never managed and presumably wouldn't even be under consideration had he not played here previously? I don't get how you could have possibly deemed these names as dynamic when there is basically no evidence whatsoever as to how good they are as managers or even if they want to become managers. I dont get why you are so fixated on this specific criteria.

 

Yes I did. I have mentioned potential managerial appointments whether you wanted to go appointing a manager or go for different set up and appoint a director of football with a head coach. 

Did Neil Critchley or Steve Cooper played for their clubs they managed? Looked at how well they both have done. 

You keep mentioning evidence but that is dispel if you have badly Hughton failed at Forest and look at well they are doing Steve Cooper? 

You can keep slamming me for using different specific criteria but Rovers need to more thinking out of the box and try something different now after 5 years of Mowbray who has done a good job in the first 3 years but last season was huge disappointment given their financial backing he got and the squad he had plus the last 3 months of this season results and tactics wise have been quite frankly unacceptable for our great club. Mowbray is far too stubborn and unwilling to adapt his starting formation even tho in he last few games the back 3 is no longer solid and and we aren't winning games or scoring enough.  

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

The only people really making any money from being at our club are the players and their slimy representatives.

Same parasites that are going to be laughing all the way to barclays when the likes of Lenihan and Nyambe start negotiating with other clubs

[chaddyrovers]

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

You didn't answer my questions. How and why are Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley 'dynamic' or 'good training ground coaches' as opposed to anyone else?

Just look how well drilled and organised Forest look now under Steve Cooper compare to Hughton time there or Swansea spell. Also Critchley has impressed similar and willing to adapt his ways and tactics to suit the league despite his background at Liverpool. 

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

It seems to me you are referring to younger end managers who have recently emerged from coaching at youth or reserve levels and have transitioned well to managing at senior level. If that's what you want us to do - identify someone to transition from coaching youth teams to first teams fine - I'm not sure why you want that or think it is essential. There aren't many who make that transition. Even Critchley has a lot to prove yet with his career still in its infancy. Gary Bowyer made that transition yet wasn't deemed good enough here.

I think its about having the right footballing structure at the club. Youth development and bringing these through to first team will be key part of any footballing and transfer strategy going forward at the club.  

I think Bowyer did a fine job at Rovers in year 1 and build a good team that in year 2 should have got playoffs at least. 

I think Critchley has proved himself so far. 

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

Who would be on my shortlist? Off the top of my head, without applying much thought to it, I would think about the following people who are currently available or working at a level where they should be obtainable for a billionaire backed club:

Slaven Bilic, Daniel Farke, Slavisa Jokanovic, Gary Rowett, Chris Hughton, Garry Monk, Mark Bonner, Danny Cowley, Liam Manning, Ian Evatt, Uwe Rosler, Nuno Espirito Santo, Vladimir Ivic, Wayne Rooney, Lee Carsley

Can't say most of them I would excite me or think would be appalling. 

I don't know about Liam Manning at MK Dons but I will be watching with interest their game on Sky on Saturday. Mark Bonner similar. 

Rooney would be appealing but doubt he will leave Derby. Farke would be similar but he has never worked without a Director of football. He had Webber at Norwich. Cowley would be decent enough for me and someone who I rated. I always forget about him in these next manager discussions. 

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

We could and should have moved for Chris Wilder, Steve Cooper or Alex Neil

agreed

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

I'm trying to be realistic - I don't apply arbitrary requirements like age or unmeasurable metrics like being a 'training ground' coach or 'dynamic'. I just look at track records and reputations in the game and don't care if they are 70 or 40 or are used to working in youth systems or if they come from Blackburn or Brazil. I don't think it matters. You just need a good manager able to work for lunatic owners. By taking your approach - limiting options to those of a young age, those who have never managed before or those only who have recently worked in someones academy - I think you are taking needless risk for little reason.

The first team isn't an academy and one of the problems is Mowbray treating it as a shop window or development centre for players. We need promotion and we need a manager who is going to focus on that and that alone.

I am also trying to be realistic with my suggestions and who I would be happy with. 

Like I said early in this reply that youth development and bringing through these into the first team will be key part of any transfer and footballing strategy at Rovers. 

On 11/04/2022 at 23:06, JHRover said:

Just watched the interviews of Corberan and Jones after tonight's game. Corberan clearly has a far greater understanding of the game than Mowbray and you can tell that just by listening to his interview for a few minutes.

Jones disgusts me but after losing an important game tonight he is clearly raging and is wound up like a spring, raring to go and coming with the fighting talk. Beats shoulder shrug Tony going through the motions.

 I didn't watch or seen that game or interviews so I can't comment on them sadly. 

[Mattyblue]

So having a team ‘well drilled and organised’ is a sign of being a ‘dynamic coach’, is it?

Step up Tony Pulis!

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I did. I have mentioned potential managerial appointments whether you wanted to go appointing a manager or go for different set up and appoint a director of football with a head coach. 

Did Neil Critchley or Steve Cooper played for their clubs they managed? Looked at how well they both have done. 

You keep mentioning evidence but that is dispel if you have badly Hughton failed at Forest and look at well they are doing Steve Cooper? 

You can keep slamming me for using different specific criteria but Rovers need to more thinking out of the box and try something different now after 5 years of Mowbray who has done a good job in the first 3 years but last season was huge disappointment given their financial backing he got and the squad he had plus the last 3 months of this season results and tactics wise have been quite frankly unacceptable for our great club. Mowbray is far too stubborn and unwilling to adapt his starting formation even tho in he last few games the back 3 is no longer solid and and we aren't winning games or scoring enough.  

 

Slamming you? I have not discounted the idea of having a younger manager but obviously it is nigh on impossible to recommend someone using that criteria with nothing to base any recommendations on. Take Cooper; Swansea could be credited for taking the chance on him, Forest appointed someone with 2 successive play off finishes so he had a track record. Also, its all well and good giving one or two examples of younger successful managers and older ones with a recent failure on their CV, but conversely you could name failed younger managers and successful experienced ones.

I just firstly don't see what can be gained by ruling out the majority of the potential managerial market.

I also don't get the justification for your specific recommendations. It just seems like you are naming people based on playing careers which is something I also suggested in relation to your Lampard based propaganda. Mason has managed I think 7 senior games, what has he possibly done to be specifically recommended by yourself, aside from being a young coach and a former half decent player? Same with Wilcox who has not managed a game.

 

The first thing

[Rogerb]

6 hours ago, Dan said:

As I’ve said for years, I don’t believe for a second that Mowbray is a nice guy like most seem to think. I’ve always thought he is a selfish, stubborn, vindictive bastard. 

Reference his dealing with Charlie Mulgrew and now most likely Bradley Johnson.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Just look how well drilled and organised Forest look now under Steve Cooper compare to Hughton time there or Swansea spell. Also Critchley has impressed similar and willing to adapt his ways and tactics to suit the league despite his background at Liverpool. 

I think its about having the right footballing structure at the club. Youth development and bringing these through to first team will be key part of any footballing and transfer strategy going forward at the club.  

I think Bowyer did a fine job at Rovers in year 1 and build a good team that in year 2 should have got playoffs at least. 

I think Critchley has proved himself so far. 

Can't say most of them I would excite me or think would be appalling. 

I don't know about Liam Manning at MK Dons but I will be watching with interest their game on Sky on Saturday. Mark Bonner similar. 

Rooney would be appealing but doubt he will leave Derby. Farke would be similar but he has never worked without a Director of football. He had Webber at Norwich. Cowley would be decent enough for me and someone who I rated. I always forget about him in these next manager discussions. 

agreed

I am also trying to be realistic with my suggestions and who I would be happy with. 

Like I said early in this reply that youth development and bringing through these into the first team will be key part of any transfer and footballing strategy at Rovers. 

 I didn't watch or seen that game or interviews so I can't comment on them sadly. 

I'm not sure about this obsession with youth development that you seem to have.

Our academy is one of the most productive in the country, as evidenced by the presence of Lenihan, Wharton, Nyambe, Travis, Buckley, JRC as cornerstones of the first team. So there's obviously nothing wrong with it as it stands. I certainly don't think it is realistic to expect MORE players in our squad to come from the academy. That is going to be very difficult to achieve.

No the job of a manager is to manage the first team to get the best results possible. It is the job of the academy manager and staff to develop players to reach a level good enough for the first XI, and of course any manager will give an opportunity to academy lads if they are good enough.

When Mowbray turned up here I don't think anyone thought he was a good development coach or that he was being brought in to get more from our academy. He was a 50 something unemployed manager who had been around the block in the previous 10 years and was brought in on a short term deal to firefight and get results to try and survive. 

5 years on and one of the main successes of Mowbray's tenure is the number of people who have come through from the academy. Sometimes that seems to have been to the detriment of results. 

The point I'm making is that any manager of a club, especially a limited budget, will look to the academy and use it, and Mowbray himself, with no reputation as being a 'dynamic' coach or proficient in developing kids, has done just that to a good level

For some reason you seem to equate young and inexperienced coaches for people who are more likely to use our academy than older and with a proven track record.

I find it baffling that you wouldn't be excited with appointing Slaven Bilic or Daniel Farke, proven winners at this level or beyond, yet you would actively support the appointments of Damian Johnson, Ryan Mason or Jason Wilcox, none of whom have managed before and we don't even know if they are up to it.

[chaddyrovers]

31 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Slamming you? I have not discounted the idea of having a younger manager but obviously it is nigh on impossible to recommend someone using that criteria with nothing to base any recommendations on. Take Cooper; Swansea could be credited for taking the chance on him, Forest appointed someone with 2 successive play off finishes so he had a track record. Also, its all well and good giving one or two examples of younger successful managers and older ones with a recent failure on their CV, but conversely you could name failed younger managers and successful experienced ones.

I just firstly don't see what can be gained by ruling out the majority of the potential managerial market.

I also don't get the justification for your specific recommendations. It just seems like you are naming people based on playing careers which is something I also suggested in relation to your Lampard based propaganda. Mason has managed I think 7 senior games, what has he possibly done to be specifically recommended by yourself, aside from being a young coach and a former half decent player? Same with Wilcox who has not managed a game.

No one is basing on their views on people playing careers apart from you. I haven't mentioned playing careers in any post so why are you mentioning it? I am basing my opinions on coaching careers. 

I gave 2 examples of managers who have had success and prove their worth who had no 1st team managerial experience until a club gave them a chance and look at their success they had. 

What and who is the potential managerial market then?

I've seen plenty of names mention on here I wouldn't want here as Mowbray's replacement 

[JHRover]

This is all part of Mowbray's sales pitch for a new contract, I'm convinced of it.

This talk about Gallagher stepping up to replace Brereton. 

His basis will be that having got rid of Danny Graham and following Dack's injury, it was he that oversaw Armstrong's emergence into hot property resulting in a big money sale, and following that, with no reinvestment, he has overseen Brereton's emergence into hot property which I think he will be more than happy to see sold to further justify his approach and earn credit with the owners. His next argument will be that he will be the one to oversee the development of Gallagher in much the same way.

Not bothered about much else, if it works then we might have another £10 million+ player to sell in 2023 to save them some money.

Problem is this lot will buy it and go with it.

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure about this obsession with youth development that you seem to have.

Our academy is one of the most productive in the country, as evidenced by the presence of Lenihan, Wharton, Nyambe, Travis, Buckley, JRC as cornerstones of the first team. So there's obviously nothing wrong with it as it stands. I certainly don't think it is realistic to expect MORE players in our squad to come from the academy. That is going to be very difficult to achieve.

No the job of a manager is to manage the first team to get the best results possible. It is the job of the academy manager and staff to develop players to reach a level good enough for the first XI, and of course any manager will give an opportunity to academy lads if they are good enough.

When Mowbray turned up here I don't think anyone thought he was a good development coach or that he was being brought in to get more from our academy. He was a 50 something unemployed manager who had been around the block in the previous 10 years and was brought in on a short term deal to firefight and get results to try and survive. 

5 years on and one of the main successes of Mowbray's tenure is the number of people who have come through from the academy. Sometimes that seems to have been to the detriment of results. 

The point I'm making is that any manager of a club, especially a limited budget, will look to the academy and use it, and Mowbray himself, with no reputation as being a 'dynamic' coach or proficient in developing kids, has done just that to a good level

For some reason you seem to equate young and inexperienced coaches for people who are more likely to use our academy than older and with a proven track record.

Cos our academy players will be major part of football and transfer strategy going forward. I think we will see more academy players coming through in the couple of years. 

Farke didn't have a track record before Norwich and their Sporting Director Stuart Webber appointing Frake from Dortmund reserves/youth. 

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I find it baffling that you wouldn't be excited with appointing Slaven Bilic or Daniel Farke, proven winners at this level or beyond, yet you would actively support the appointments of Damian Johnson, Ryan Mason or Jason Wilcox, none of whom have managed before and we don't even know if they are up to it.

I said Farke would be appealing but his experience at Norwich is head coach and not as manager and seems to need a director of football. 

On Bilic, I don't think its a realistic suggestions currently even tho I wanted to replace Allardyce 12 years ago. 

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No one is basing on their views on people playing careers apart from you. I haven't mentioned playing careers in any post so why are you mentioning it? I am basing my opinions on coaching careers. 

I gave 2 examples of managers who have had success and prove their worth who had no 1st team managerial experience until a club gave them a chance and look at their success they had. 

What and who is the potential managerial market then?

I've seen plenty of names mention on here I wouldn't want here as Mowbray's replacement 

So why did you specifically mention Mason and Wilcox? Even if it's based on the warped logic that no one was a proven manager before being given a chance somewhere, why those 2 individuals?

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So why did you specifically mention Mason and Wilcox? Even if it's based on the warped logic that no one was a proven manager before being given a chance somewhere, why those 2 individuals?

But you didn't answer my question about why you keep mentioning playing careers when no-one from you have? 

Wilcox worked at Man City academy structure for 10 years and has brought through players into the first team squad and players who have played first team football elsewhere. 

Mason has worked with Spurs youth team for 2 years and It was a name I mention. 

But I did say that Club need to do its proper research into potential candidates and work out what type of footballing structure we need at the club for short and long term 

[Upside Down]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

More and more I'm thinking the club revolves around the academy. keep producing good players to sell to bigger clubs (like Brighton, Brentford etc!) and we settle for Championship mid-table forever (if we are lucky).

If that's the plan then count me out.

if it isn't someone please tell me what is.

 

Absolutely 100%. People scoffed when I said that relegation from the Premier League was deliberate but there has never been any effort to ever get back there.

Those of us who are more sceptical or cynical are not convinced that Venkys are the total owners of the club. I truly believe that we are mid table in the second division entirely by design for the sole purpose of being a football talent factory. 

Given the known previous involvement of agents within the club I don't think that this is such a far fetched theory.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Upside Down

[47er]

8 hours ago, yankfan said:

This sums it up.  He can’t see how bad Sam has been, thinks he could score 20+ played as a center forward but continues to play him wide. 

 

”The Rovers boss even hinted that Gallagher could be in line to replace Brereton Diaz should the Chile international leave the club this summer.

 

“I played Sam down the middle and usually play him on the right and ask him to run those channels and get in at the back stick from balls coming in from the other side,” said Mowbray, via Lancashire Telegraph.

“I’m pleased for him that he scored, it was a good finish. He scored a good header at the back stick against Derby a couple of games ago, so he can score goals.

“Maybe for this football club, if Brereton gets sold in the summer, whether he does or he doesn’t is another issue but he’ll be in the last year of his contract, and if that’s something that happens then someone is going to have to step up.

“Maybe Sam Gallagher is the player that can turn into the 20-goal a season striker as Brereton did on the back of Armstrong leaving.”

Preparing us for the coming failure to buy a new striker.

[Paul Mellelieu]

8 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Absolutely 100%. People scoffed when I said that relegation from the Premier League was deliberate but there has never been any effort to ever get back there.

Those of us who are more sceptical or cynical are not convinced that Venkys are the total owners of the club. I truly believe that we are mid table in the second division entirely by design for the sole purpose of being a football talent factory. 

Given the known previous involvement of agents within the club I don't think that this is such a far fetched theory.

Have you got any evidence for any of this?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

The way things are going - should his topic not be "Mowbrays reign as a HOLE" -

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

The way things are going - should his topic not be "Mowbrays reign as a HOLE" -

See page 2.

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 hour ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Have you got any evidence for any of this?

 

[JHRover]

I find it interesting that Suhail Sheikh aka Pasha has a public profile claiming responsibility for 'operations and administrative side' of Blackburn Rovers and yet according to Mowbray and Waggott he is simply the owners' representative/communications link.

Which one is it? Is he hands on as he claims, in which case why is he invisible and silent and how does his job work around Waggott's?