Fans Forum/Roverstore/Commercial Chat

[StHelensRover]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

On the final part Re derby - I wasn’t there, I wouldn’t be surprised though, or one of the people who think it’s a good idea! You can understand their reaction though?
 

When the game is on, most (Imo, especially away) fans are disconnected from the problems of ownership and lousy backroom management. They’re  focused on the team, and John (leaving to go somewhere more ambitious, I would acknowledge, accept and understand that) deserved ire of the supporters of our team!
 

Which he turned his back on publicly, and now goes on to cherry pick parts of it, including back room staff. He’s a prick as far as I’m concerned, and that view doesn’t make our management problems any less severe.

 

Going back to the publicly asking the directors to stay home the comments I heard constantly “own goal” as it’s easy to make rovers fans look like dicks sat 5th in the league or whatever it was, demanding people who’s very job is to turn up, to stay home!
 

One bloke in the WMC made a very simple point to me at the time, the trusts entire position should be finding and working with potential new owners, as a positive solution, rather than trying to create “media waves”.

I’m not sure I think it’s that simple but he had a point.

 

 

 

I'd love the last point you made about seeking out new potential owners to be the route for fan groups to go down, but I don't think we're at that stage.

The owners are seemingly as adamant as they were 14 years ago that the club is not for sale. Ultimately, I know that everything is for sale and that if someone offered them a billion pounds they would sell us by the end of the week. But the fact that they've seemed at best stubborn or at worst hostile to the idea of someone buying the club from them has likely put many parties off. I'd be worried that they probably overvalue the club as an asset, or expect by selling it to make back all or most of their outlay. But we are a sunk cost to them and they should be looking to offload us as easily as possible (not for free obviously, but accepting that they will have to take a big hit). 

I sadly hear from so many fans 'who would buy us' as well and I think that's a non-argument. So many clubs are bought and sold and if we were 'for sale' I think we would be seen as a good investment. Large stadium, elite category training ground/academy, just over an hour from an international airport, longstanding history and pedigree in the game. 

I hope the increased scrutiny on Pasha and the constant pointing out that we're operating well within our means on a cheap and cheerful, bargain basement strategy which lacks any ambition will wear him down to the point that it's untenable and even he has to express the futility of this to the owners. I might be dreaming that this will happen.

 

 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

The meetings used to be run by Steve Waggott who was very skilled at keeping everything very civil and taking control of the dialogue in a calm manner. Now that Pasha is under direct scrutiny he is being exposed. He gets rattled very easily and doesn't have the people skills that Waggott had.  My guess is that he will let Lynsey Talbot run any future meetings - if there are any.

Remember back in the day when they had gutted the board to such an extent that the only remaining executives available to attend the 'mandatory' consultation meetings were Mike Cheston and Bob Coar. One the finance director and the other a bloke who seemingly hasn't had any hands on involvement in the running of the club for decades. 

Neither of those two had the oratory skills or confidence to handle those meetings and it ended up a laughing stock, with Cheston admitting he had lined up a manager, gone on holiday and persons unknown had brought in Coyle instead whilst he was away, and Coar threatening fans with legal action and admitting he had no involvement in decision making.

After that they got lucky with Mowbray and Waggott, both good talkers, able to take control and smooth talk for a few years, keeping the heat off the owners and their stooge in the shadows. 

Fortunately for us with those gone and being back to a hollowed out husk of an executive running the club the heat is going to build again (IF they bother continuing with these  meetings, I've no doubt priority #1 for the Venky stooge will be trying to avoid these meetings or ensure he isn't present for them).

He'll be looking for a good talker to stick in front of the fans moving forwards. This is where they might bring in a new 'CEO' (In name only) to take control of this side of things. Paul Senior was one of those IMO. Parachuted in mid-season as the pressure was reaching unbearable levels, wore a fancy suit, very skilled with the  media side of things and strutting round the lounges before home games telling people how good it was going to be in the future. He was gone within a few months once he'd served his purpose. 

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, StHelensRover said:

I'd love the last point you made about seeking out new potential owners to be the route for fan groups to go down, but I don't think we're at that stage.

The owners are seemingly as adamant as they were 14 years ago that the club is not for sale. Ultimately, I know that everything is for sale and that if someone offered them a billion pounds they would sell us by the end of the week. But the fact that they've seemed at best stubborn or at worst hostile to the idea of someone buying the club from them has likely put many parties off. I'd be worried that they probably overvalue the club as an asset, or expect by selling it to make back all or most of their outlay. But we are a sunk cost to them and they should be looking to offload us as easily as possible (not for free obviously, but accepting that they will have to take a big hit). 

I sadly hear from so many fans 'who would buy us' as well and I think that's a non-argument. So many clubs are bought and sold and if we were 'for sale' I think we would be seen as a good investment. Large stadium, elite category training ground/academy, just over an hour from an international airport, longstanding history and pedigree in the game. 

I hope the increased scrutiny on Pasha and the constant pointing out that we're operating well within our means on a cheap and cheerful, bargain basement strategy which lacks any ambition will wear him down to the point that it's untenable and even he has to express the futility of this to the owners. I might be dreaming that this will happen.

 

 

I think the majority of fans would 100% agree with that, I also would add the part about clubs being bought and sold, it’s often very drop of a hat. Of course there are examples of a long malaise coming to a head, Sheffield Wednesday and particularly Morecambe are hard to see this summer.

If there was a very definite potential new owner, who had the cash, the interest, the link to the town, already well and truly embedded with all fan groups, using media, especially pages like this, the local radio and online newspapers to regularly remind the current owners and management they are standing in waiting, ready to go, there is a viable alternative that the fans all want…. 
 

It may make no difference, but then sitting down and trying to engage with the Rao’s and their underlings has made no difference either. I know I’d rather get  behind something inherently positive like that.

Wrexhams Phoenix started with a teams call with a fan group…!

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

I think the majority of fans would 100% agree with that, I also would add the part about clubs being bought and sold, it’s often very drop of a hat. Of course there are examples of a long malaise coming to a head, Sheffield Wednesday and particularly Morecambe are hard to see this summer.

If there was a very definite potential new owner, who had the cash, the interest, the link to the town, already well and truly embedded with all fan groups, using media, especially pages like this, the local radio and online newspapers to regularly remind the current owners and management they are standing in waiting, ready to go, there is a viable alternative that the fans all want…. 
 

It may make no difference, but then sitting down and trying to engage with the Rao’s and their underlings has made no difference either. I know I’d rather get  behind something inherently positive like that.

Wrexhams Phoenix started with a teams call with a fan group…!

It seems to be only you that thinks the call for the 3 stooges to stay away was a bad thing, it was calm and measured and imo reflected far better on the fan base than actively disrupting games etc. It brought more media attention on us than we've had in years and I haven't come across anyone who thought it made us look like "dicks". With the exception of Jim White who I suspect has some sort of connection to Anderson etc, everyone in the media seemed to receive the call very sympathetically as well.

The only thing I agree with you on is that I think a large part of Coalition activity from now on should be targeted towards attracting the attention of potential new owners. I thought it was very noticeable during the car crash interviews that unlike in previous  previous years the concept of the owners selling was most definitely not expressly ruled out.

Don't think a local link is essential, just started watching the documentary about Birmingham. Compulsive viewing, Wagner and Brady want success so badly for Birmingham it hurts - I'd kill to have owners like that here. As an example, after they were relegated Wagner said they set about transforming the ground to make many parts of it "unrecognisable" as they wanted it to be a  place worthy of attracting extra investment and sponsorship and a suitable environment for the fans to live out their dreams etc.

Compare that with our mob allowing Ewood to fall into disrepair etc.

 

[StHelensRover]

It's such a tough one. Ours is a bit of an outlier case compared with most of the other shite owners.

Wrexham, Portsmouth, Coventry, Morecambe, Luton Bolton, Bury, Reading, SheffWeds and probably 15 others I've forgotten to mention all had owners that were so catastrophic that they put the club either at serious risk of going out of business or out of business altogether, usually within a few years.

Our decline has been so managed and drawn out over 12-13 years that it has slipped under the radar and so doesn't quite compare to the other examples.

Our owners have always just managed to do the bare minimum to escape legal and media scrutiny. Kept us on life support as cheaply as possible. As long as we're fielding a team of paid players and ticking all the EFL's boxes, no one can technically say they're doing anything wrong. This is why no one outside of East Lancashire really cares. To outsiders, it looks like we're complaining at a lack of on-field success, which most clubs go through. As opposed to circling the plug hole very, very slowly, which is actually what it feels like we're doing.

Fifteen years is a long time for a club of our stature to go without even a sniff of success, I don't mean winning the top division or trophies, but for the majority of our history we have been in the top flight and we should be at least aiming to return there every season. I don't remember anyone in the last decade at the club saying that promotion has been a goal. I'm pretty sure the goal of most other championship sides is to win promotion, but we never hear it at Ewood and we don't behave like it. Every season we behave like a club that has just been promoted from League One. That to me has always been unacceptable. The lack of ambition is galling. (I don't class our promotion from league one as success either, it was only the third time we'd ever been that low iirc).

The 80s was before my time, but I'm aware that before Jack Walker we were skint and had low attendances, but were somehow still getting into the playoffs and trying to be ambitious. Under this lot  the best we've mustered in 15 years is to have 'missed out on goal difference' which sounds better than it actually was, we flattered to deceive.

Edited 3 hours ago by StHelensRover

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, StHelensRover said:

Our owners have always just managed to do the bare minimum to escape legal and media scrutiny. Kept us on life support as cheaply as possible. As long as we're fielding a team of paid players and ticking all the EFL's boxes, no one can technically say they're doing anything wrong. This is why no one outside of East Lancashire really cares. To outsiders, it looks like we're complaining at a lack of on-field success, which most clubs go through. As opposed to circling the plug hole very, very slowly, which is actually what it feels like we're doing.

Brilliantly put, that's the most concise summary of our plight I've ever heard. Well done.

BTW we DID make the play offs several times in the 80's despite no cash. Funnily enough I ran into a random guy the other week who knew me from my Rovers related activities years ago and he apparently was a near neighbour of Jim Branagan and knew him very well. He confirmed what many of us have always suspected over the years using the naked eye test.  Jim apparently said the players were very conscious that if they did go up most of them knew they'd be replaced and they were settled in the area and their kids at the schools etc........

 

[cesus]

44 minutes ago, StHelensRover said:

It's such a tough one. Ours is a bit of an outlier case compared with most of the other shite owners.

Wrexham, Portsmouth, Coventry, Morecambe, Luton Bolton, Bury, Reading, SheffWeds and probably 15 others I've forgotten to mention all had owners that were so catastrophic that they put the club either at serious risk of going out of business or out of business altogether, usually within a few years.

Our decline has been so managed and drawn out over 12-13 years that it has slipped under the radar and so doesn't quite compare to the other examples.

Our owners have always just managed to do the bare minimum to escape legal and media scrutiny. Kept us on life support as cheaply as possible. As long as we're fielding a team of paid players and ticking all the EFL's boxes, no one can technically say they're doing anything wrong. This is why no one outside of East Lancashire really cares. To outsiders, it looks like we're complaining at a lack of on-field success, which most clubs go through. As opposed to circling the plug hole very, very slowly, which is actually what it feels like we're doing.

Fifteen years is a long time for a club of our stature to go without even a sniff of success, I don't mean winning the top division or trophies, but for the majority of our history we have been in the top flight and we should be at least aiming to return there every season. I don't remember anyone in the last decade at the club saying that promotion has been a goal. I'm pretty sure the goal of most other championship sides is to win promotion, but we never hear it at Ewood and we don't behave like it. Every season we behave like a club that has just been promoted from League One. That to me has always been unacceptable. The lack of ambition is galling. (I don't class our promotion from league one as success either, it was only the third time we'd ever been that low iirc).

The 80s was before my time, but I'm aware that before Jack Walker we were skint and had low attendances, but were somehow still getting into the playoffs and trying to be ambitious. Under this lot  the best we've mustered in 15 years is to have 'missed out on goal difference' which sounds better than it actually was, we flattered to deceive.

Excellent summing up. The only thing I'd add which galls me personally is to have nobody in a senior position I actually trust, the owners will not talk, we have all established that. Yet, when any of the senior people from the club speak, it all appears to be made up on the spot and most often not true.

Edited 2 hours ago by cesus

[StHelensRover]

9 minutes ago, cesus said:

Excellent summing up. The only thing I'd add which galls me personally is to have nobody in a senior position I actually trust, the owners will not talk, we have all established that. Yet, when any of the senior people from the club speak, it all appears to be made up on the spot and most often not true.

Yeah I agree with this. No club has a god given right to top flight football or any type of success, but if you trust the people at the top are doing their very best then you can accept when you fall short. I think Steve Gibson is the best example of this at Middlesbrough. He must have been there about 30 years now. They've spent most of that time bouncing between the top and second division, they've won a cup and played in a European final.  The last few seasons they have been bang average, mediocre. But fans aren't protesting and booing him, because they know he loves the club and will do whatever he can to at least try and bring success.

[rigger]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't think the government regulate the EFL as government interference in running football is against FIFA and UEFA rules. Also the local MP is not a member of the government.

So what would you suggest is the next move ? So if the MP is not part of the government, then they could ask the EFL to look into  the Rovers situation. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

23 minutes ago, rigger said:

So what would you suggest is the next move ? So if the MP is not part of the government, then they could ask the EFL to look into  the Rovers situation. 

The powers of the EFL are extremely limited. At Sheffield Wednesday there has been a pattern of non payment of wages/taxes and reports that part of the ground is not safe - yet the EFL have been unable to force a sale. There was a pattern of similar behaviour at Reading over a period of years before the owner was forced to sell. At Blackburn Rovers we are talking about a failure to publish minutes 23 days after a meeting between the club and supporters representatives - which is hardly in the same league of misbehaviour - so I don't think the EFL are going to do anything.

The new Football Governance Act does impose an obligation on clubs to engage in an acceptable level of fan engagement and once that is up and running properly - the Independent Football Regulator is yet to be appointed - then there will be a process by which supporters can complain to the Regulator if the club is not engaging in an appropriate manner.

[wilsdenrover]

4 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

The meetings used to be run by Steve Waggott who was very skilled at keeping everything very civil and taking control of the dialogue in a calm manner. Now that Pasha is under direct scrutiny he is being exposed. He gets rattled very easily and doesn't have the people skills that Waggott had.  My guess is that he will let Lynsey Talbot run any future meetings - if there are any.

I don’t think she’s senior enough to satisfy the EFL rules.

 

[MarkBRFC]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t think she’s senior enough to satisfy the EFL rules.

 

She might be soon enough...

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

She might be soon enough...

Ah the Peter Principle.

[GHD]

7 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Ah the Peter Principle.

Nothing new at Ewood