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S8 & Blue

VAR

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18 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Think I might've posted something similar a few pages back,. so sorry for drowning on about it, but I genuinely dread this becoming a permanent fixture in English football. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of it myself, although I would like to see game deciding clangers eradicated somehow.

But I'm sorry to say it's coming wheher you like it or not. Can't see anyway it can be stopped now.

So, I'm just trying to look at options to make it better,  cos I too worry it could be damaging to the game in it's current form.

Have to say though,  all those people saying they're happy to take bad decisions on the chin - will you still stick to that if we end up getting a howler of a penalty decision in 89th min of playoff final to keep us in League 1 another season?! 

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16 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

What would have happened if the ball came back off the keeper/post and into play?

What half are we in??

I’ll take the title of Luddite proudly, I hate VAR with every fibre of my being.

Presuming the referee would have blown his whistle frantically for half-time again if the penalty had hit the post or something. :lol:

Yeah I'm not a fan of VAR either, like has been mentioned here before decisions in the game are subjective and I've seen plenty of decisions reversed by VAR that I'm not sure should have been. 

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On 16/04/2018 at 22:23, chaddyrovers said:

"I'm sure that is historic. I've never seen anything like it!"

Unprecedented scenes in Germany as VAR awarded a penalty after the half-time whistle had been blown 😮 https://t.co/WxtEMhaXMJ

Exactly VAR is farce and bringing into football a massive football. 

First VAR and now this?? The game I loved is dead. :(

 

(Sorry, I’ve got a new app)

25C083AC-CEE2-4751-8BD9-D172E91952FB.jpeg

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On 17/04/2018 at 16:56, Silas said:

 - will you still stick to that if we end up getting a howler of a penalty decision in 89th min of playoff final to keep us in League 1 another season?! 

Twas ever thus. I'd take the tried, tested if imperfect 140+ year working model over VAR

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VAR messes up due to "software glitch" during Aussie play off final

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/ffa-statement-relation-hyundai-a-league-2018-grand-final

The video in this link shows the offside.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-06/ffa-reveal-reasons-behind-var-controversy-a-league-grand-final/9732640

Edited by perthblue02

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Dont need it. Just improve the overall quality of refereeing, give them back the power to boss a game as they see fit and make use of goal line technology only or perhaps even offside technology. No video replays of tiny contentious incidents.

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Goal line technology is undoubtedly a step forward.

By and large VAR is an improvement if officials work with it as intended. 

 

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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

VAR doesnt work. Time to get rid of the rubbish system

Spain disagree last night a perfectly good goal was disallowed before VAR allowed for the correct decision:

I think if you looked at every incident in which it’s been used this World Cup the success rate would be somewhere between 80-90% depending on your view. The penalty last night was for me the first time a wrong decision has come from it although there’s a few instances where it could have been used but hasn’t. 

Maybe that’s not high enough and that’s certainly y up for debate but VAR absolutely irrefutably does work at least to an extent. 

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The problem with VAR are the protocols are all wrong and there is a misconception that like Cricket the technology can clear up decisions.  Cricket technology by and large gives a definitive answer, for example Ball Tracking will tell you if the bowl was going to it the wickets or snicko will tell you if there was a sound as ball passed the bat etc.  However apart from the goaline technology the other bits that football use does not give a definitive answer so it is back to the "judgment" of the VAR ref/Match referee so you are going to get inconsistent decisions.

Then the protocols are wrong and it is creating an inbalance, some teams are benefiting from VAR decisions being referred whilst others are not because VAR did not look/refer them.  Those protocols need to be cleared up.  If they are going to persist with this then they could just give the Manager 2 VAR referrals per match, so then you are putting the onus on the teams, so if they waste them then that is their own fault.  At least the decision making protocol would be "fair".

Having seen VAR in action for the whole season in Serie A and now this world cup I would say it needs scrapping in it's current format.  I have seen it work brilliantly but I have also seen a lot of games where it has caused confusion and chaos.

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

 

I think if you looked at every incident in which it’s been used this World Cup the success rate would be somewhere between 80-90% depending on your view. The penalty last night was for me the first time a wrong decision has come from it although there’s a few instances where it could have been used but hasn’t. 

 

But Australia's VAR penalty against Denmark was the result of a very similar handball incident.

Surely they are both penalties or they both aren't?

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43 minutes ago, Husky said:

But Australia's VAR penalty against Denmark was the result of a very similar handball incident.

Surely they are both penalties or they both aren't?

Couldn't agree more

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1 hour ago, Husky said:

But Australia's VAR penalty against Denmark was the result of a very similar handball incident.

Surely they are both penalties or they both aren't?

Change the rules to take away the intension debate, if it hits your arm it's handball.

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2 hours ago, Husky said:

But Australia's VAR penalty against Denmark was the result of a very similar handball incident.

Surely they are both penalties or they both aren't?

I think that’s one of the only games I’ve missed 

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30 minutes ago, rigger said:

Change the rules to take away the intension debate, if it hits your arm it's handball.

I have a mate who shares this view. I can see the logic in it but can't agree with it. There would be far too many lucky penalties for me, plus you would get players deliberately trying to hit the arm of the defender rather than find a team mate. 

Any ref worth his or her salt should get most of the intentionality calls right.

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3 hours ago, Tom said:

Spain disagree last night a perfectly good goal was disallowed before VAR allowed for the correct decision:

I think if you looked at every incident in which it’s been used this World Cup the success rate would be somewhere between 80-90% depending on your view. The penalty last night was for me the first time a wrong decision has come from it although there’s a few instances where it could have been used but hasn’t. 

Maybe that’s not high enough and that’s certainly y up for debate but VAR absolutely irrefutably does work at least to an extent. 

I've not watched a lot of the world cup but they have been plenty of decisions that have been in 50/50 and plenty of stuff not given in the right decision. 

Ronaldo should have been sent off last night. England should have been given a penalty or 2 against Tunisia. Against Panama these calls were made

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The NHL, ice hockey,  has a rule that if you draw blood, your time in the penalty box goes from 2 to 5 minutes for an infraction.  One of the Japanese player did get a bloody nose in this tournament... that looked a bit like a forearm to the face.... I'm not even sure if that was called as anything beyond a foul. I think Ronaldo's act yesterday was pretty minor.

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I just don't know how to measure the success or failure of VAR for incidents that aren't clear cut and come down to an opinion. The can of worms has been well and truly opened and I really fear that the decision makers have already made their minds up and will hide behind some statistics they manufacture and manipulate. I can see the likes of Collina and Elleray really pushing VAR as pretty much it is their project.

 

 

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've not watched a lot of the world cup but they have been plenty of decisions that have been in 50/50 and plenty of stuff not given in the right decision. 

Ronaldo should have been sent off last night. England should have been given a penalty or 2 against Tunisia. Against Panama these calls were made

Not like you chaddy. Been brilliant to watch and far more interesting than getting bogged down in the transfer silly season!

Not sure how you can make such a judgement on its overall effectiveness if you havent seen barely any of the tournament? In the main, it has been less farcical and much smoother than I expected, however I am still against it. Sadly its here to stay.

That said, im on your side of the VAR argument but I disagree with the overall principle, not necessarily the effectiveness of the current set up as I do think that things can be ironed out, never perfectly.

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I think the key is the referee has to be strong. The guy in the Iran Spain game got overwhelmed and it turned into a mess. In Argentina Nigeria referee was strong and nipped the dissent and calling for VAR etc in the bud and it worked reasonably well.

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Most penalty kicks  ever in the group stage in this World Cup ( https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/world-cup/news/thanks-to-var-the-world-cup-record-for-most-penalty-kicks-has-been-shattered-in-russia-2018-group-stage/ ). I'm not saying this is good or bad, we are in uncharted territory.  It seems most games have a penalty kick awarded. At times, there seems the danger of exchanging penalties. That happened in Australia vs. France, France given a pk, then, minutes later, Australia.  In older World Cups, it seems one could watch 3 or 4 games, no penalties given.

Edited by Audax

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Well done to the Turkish referee last night who didn't give in to VAR pressure after they referred a decision to him as a clear and obvious error. This would have resulted in a penalty for Nigeria for an alleged handball by Rojo. The way he explained his decision to the irate Nigerians was exemplary.

Collina however should be hauling the VAR's over the coals.

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