Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

I smell a sell off.

Why would they sell it to another company they have set up and then sell it to someone else?

Surely if the plan was to sell it then they would do just that.Not set up a new company and sell it to themselves.

Of course has to be suspicion with everything thats gone on but what reason would they have for doing it this way?They own the football club they could have just sold it off

[islander200]

9 minutes ago, Gav said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48964055

Sheffield Wednesday ended up in league 1 after a points deduction for selling the ground to the owner? sadly he got his accounting periods wrong and points were deducted for breaking FFP.

Could be something similar going on here….

The telegraph article suggests we have met the accounting deadline

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mowbray and Waggott aren't using that as an excuse are they?

Probably because it's their fault we ran into FFP difficulties in the first place.

If the money spent has caused us to go into FFP difficulties, of which there is no suggestion anyway, that is not on the manager.

If the budget allocated to the manager (given by the owners) has not been utilised well enough to progress on the pitch, then that is on the manager.

[DE.]

If it's related to creative FFP avoidance I'm not sure why you'd do it now as opposed to x amount of years ago. It's not like this loophole hasn't been known about before. If it was just for the sake of doing it before that loophole was closed then okay, I guess, but it seems like shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. They will need to drastically slash the club's running costs going forward, or it won't be long before FFP becomes an issue again, and next time they won't be able to buy another club asset to offset the costs.

I was going to add 'or they could genuinely fund a promotion push with a proper manager' but we all know that's never happening.  

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Don’t know about banging your head against a brick wall Rev, but you seem determined to pin absolutely everything wrong with the club on Mowbray and Waggott and absolve Venky’s of any blame at all. It’s very odd.

The training ground is no longer an asset of BRFC. There are some serious potential long term implications to this.

I have to applaud you for being diligent and breaking this news first but I'm struggling to understand your stance on this.

1) Why does it matter if the assets of the new Company are included in any future sale 

and

2) Would you rather have the STC owned by a Company controlled by Venky's (as has been the case) or owned by a Company controlled by Venky's with an additional £16m in the bank?

 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

No PR by the club as usual for this and no logical reason put forward so far.  

1st part agree.

2nd part - there's £16m of them!

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If its anything to do with FFP then why are they persisting with the claim we can't get Nyambe and Rothwell on new contracts?

Cos we cannot match what they are demanding wage wise clearly otherwise they would have re-sign by now. 

 

[JHRover]

4 months ago this happened. Only comes out because government/local authority documents that the club cannot prevent confirm it.

Second time in a year this has happened.

Last time Maggott claimed that it was an administrative issue that resulted in Ribble Valley Council uploading planning documents earlier than expected.

Then along come the Telegraph with the 'exclusive' hours after it comes on here, positive spin as expected.

Of course if it was so positive you might expect the CEO to have mentioned it in one of the many meetings and conversations with supporters since then.

Hmm. I wonder why he would avoid mentioning it?

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

Could've transferred all of Brockhall to the new company. FFP reason do

The option is still there if we need it.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos we cannot match what they are demanding wage wise clearly otherwise they would have re-sign by now. 

 

Can't pay Nyambe what he wants yet can pay Richie Smallwood and Jason Leutwiler to stick around on the bench.

It's not clear at all. There are alternatives - maybe the club has chosen not to offer them new deals or the players won't stay because of the manager?

[Mercer]

From the Raos' personal angle, a smart move.

Gives them more control over a major asset in the event of the football club being sold or entering insolvency.

If the football club ceased to exist or the remainder of the Brockhall complex was sold off then I think you would find any restrictive covenants re land use would be managed out!

As a Rovers' supporter, would have been far happier if this had not happened.  Let's not be naive about this.  Again, don't think club have been open about Brockhall and their hand has reluctantly been forced.

Think it's a pity the Raos are not as smart when it comes to selecting football managers and ceos!!!

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mercer

[Gav]

This board has been drip fed a steady stream of how things are changing for the better behind the scenes, posters have been asked to show patience.

If that is the case, why does nobody know what the hell is going on here? Fans are speaking to club are they not? Did the club just forget to mention this little nugget? 

@1864roverite

@Revidge Blue

Edited October 27, 2021 by Gav

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

From the Raos' personal angle, a smart move.

Gives them more control over a major asset in the event of the football club being sold or entering insolvency.

If the football club ceased to exist or the remainder of the Brockhall complex was sold off then I think you would find any restrictive covenants re land use would be managed out!

As a Rovers' supporter, would have been far happier if this had not happened.

Think it's a pity the Raos are not as smart when it comes to selecting football managers and ceos!!!

That makes so much sense to me as a layman. If Blackburn Rovers were put into administration then Brockhall would be exempt because Blackburn Rovers don't own it. Maybe the car parks at Ewood will go the same way.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, MCMC1875 said:

No. The club could've sold all of Brockhall to the new company to put funds into the club. Look back, the earlier failed planning application shows it wasn't Waggott's decision. Thought they'd have another crack at it. Go back a bit further, they must've had designs on Brockhall to employ a top firm of London solicitors to fight the ACV application. Smells of a sell off. Why else split the assets of the club? 

If this is the post you're on about......

1) Can't see an issue with only part being transferred at this stage per se. The option is still there if we need a further injection of funds in the future over and above that permitted under FFP.

2) What shows it wasn't Waggott's decision? He admitted in the LT he was the driving force behind the original scheme.

3) I was not aware that Brockhall was ever the subject of an ACV application. I was under the impression it was generally accepted it could  not be classed an ACV as it was a private facility.

And so it should be. Can you just traipse through Liverpool or Manchester United's training ground at will? Plus any facility fot public use would be unlikely to meet Category 1 Academy requirements.

[den]

Thinking out loud again..,

This happened 4 months ago. Could it be that it was Venkys intention to transfer the STC into their own hands, sell it off and pay themselves the money from the sale without reinvesting very much at all in a new training facility? We know they were looking at cheaper sites nearer to Ewood?
I know it says they paid £16m for the land but that might have been paper money to satisfy the sale legally. Could the reason that nothing has been said about this be because it’s in abeyance?

All conjecture - but the fact that it’s only the STC and not the whole of Brockhall is a clue here.

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, Gav said:

This board has been drip fed a steady stream of how things are changing for the better behind the scenes, posters have been asked to show patience.

If that is the case, why does nobody know what the hell is going on here? Fans are speaking to club are they not? Did the club just forget to mention this little nugget? 

@1864roverite

@Revidge Blue

Devil's advocate mode on:

The owners have confirmed their continuing commitment to the Club by pumping in a further £16m worth of funding and have shown for the first time that they are prepared to be creative in an attempt to get round FFP.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

They didn't employ a top firm of London solicitors to fight the Brockhall ACV application for nothing. 

It's a private facility!

[Mike E]

I hope beyond hope this is what's happened:

Venkys: Why's the training ground being sold, you smug bastard?

Waggott: Er we er we need to raise funds for the summer to comply with FFP. I swear it's not like the swindling that happened at Cov! I swear!

Venkys: Well we can just sell it to ourselves to generate the funds you daft sod. Are you SO dense? Does light actually bend around you?

[blondie]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Devil's advocate mode on:

The owners have confirmed their continuing commitment to the Club by pumping in a further £16m worth of funding and have shown for the first time that they are prepared to be creative in an attempt to get round FFP.

At last a bit of common sense.

[den]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

I hope beyond hope this is what's happened:

Venkys: Why's the training ground being sold, you smug bastard?

Waggott: Er we er we need to raise funds for the summer to comply with FFP. I swear it's not like the swindling that happened at Cov! I swear!

Venkys: Well we can just sell it to ourselves to generate the funds you daft sod. Are you SO dense? Does light actually bend around you?

They can only sell the STC once. That’s not a plan.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, blondie said:

At last a bit of common sense.

I hope that's the case anyway. Needs further clarification mind.

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, den said:

Thinking out loud again..,

This happened 4 months ago. Could it be that it was Venkys intention to transfer the STC into their own hands, sell it off and pay themselves the money from the sale without reinvesting very much at all in a new training facility? We know they were looking at cheaper sites nearer to Ewood?
I know it says they paid £16m for the land but that might have been paper money to satisfy the sale legally. Could the reason that nothing has been said about this be because it’s in abeyance?

All conjecture - but the fact that it’s only the STC and not the whole of Brockhall is a clue here.

I'm suspecting they've wanted some security for extra money they'd had to find quickly. Probably already spent and couldn't be put through the usual channels.

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Can't pay Nyambe what he wants yet can pay Richie Smallwood and Jason Leutwiler to stick around on the bench.

It's not clear at all. There are alternatives - maybe the club has chosen not to offer them new deals or the players won't stay because of the manager?

Firstly that was 18 months ago. Blimey move on. 

The club has offered Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell new improve contracts. Why they haven't sign them but its coming to crunch time where its time they either sign them or sell them. 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, den said:

Thinking out loud again..,

This happened 4 months ago. Could it be that it was Venkys intention to transfer the STC into their own hands, sell it off and pay themselves the money from the sale without reinvesting very much at all in a new training facility? We know they were looking at cheaper sites nearer to Ewood?
I know it says they paid £16m for the land but that might have been paper money to satisfy the sale legally. Could the reason that nothing has been said about this be because it’s in abeyance?

All conjecture - but the fact that it’s only the STC and not the whole of Brockhall is a clue here.

The owners wouldn't actually gain anything by transferring all or part of Brockhall to a different Company though would they?

If they leave the STC out of any future sale they get correspondingly less money!

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

1. 3rd attempt at ring fencing Brockhall from ACV/housing/division. 

2. Read above. He would wouldn't he. Do you trust him?

3. Rovers Trust submitted an ACV application for Brockhall which Venkys employed a top firm of London solicitors to fight. ACV not granted. 

By the way, there is a public footpath through the lower training ground which I have walked (or traipsed lol) many times.

2) Not as far as I could throw him.

3) Rightly not granted imo. It's a private facility.

A public footpath which happens to run through part of the training ground is a bit different to having liberal access to the training centres and their facilities!