v Bristol City (a) - 21/1/23

[roverandout]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

There seems to me to be a bias towards pointing negativity at our own players who we've "developed". People seem to jump to those players rather than the ones we've spent money on, or have already "made it" and I don't really get that. In my world, it should be the other way around. The heaviest criticism should come to the players who should know better, who should BE better by this stage. Sam Gallagher has probably 200 professional games to his name, it's fair to expect more of him.

Only Vale.  I've praised garrett and Wharton to the heavens. I would love nothing more than 11 academy graduates playing every week 

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, JoeH said:

Sure 😆

Look if we're going to micro analyse Jack Vale in a negative way, then I'm going to add some positive micro analysis to the debate in return. Jack Vale wasn't the problem yesterday for me, I think plenty had poorer games. And Ben Brereton Díaz seems to be getting a very easy ride for what was probably his worst performance in a Rovers shirt for a few years!

I haven't micro-analysed him, and I understand if your frustration is that players are written off too easily - I agree. His goal at WHU showed Vale has something. However, we're clutching at straws if we're biggin' up a 10 yards slow trundle sideways towards the touchline as evidence of his worth to the team!

BBD is off form. He's becoming a waste of space like he was in the 2nd half of last season. 

JDT needs his own players. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

However, we're clutching at straws

I agree that there's a lot of that going on. We don't have a good enough team and people are trying to find the scapegoat, more often than not it falls to a player with very little experience who's in my opinion not even the main issue. The focus is odd and I can't understand it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

JDT needs his own players. 

Agreed but do they exist within a reasonable Championship budget?

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I agree that there's a lot of that going on. We don't have a good enough team and people are trying to find the scapegoat, more often than not it falls to a player with very little experience who's in my opinion not even the main issue. The focus is odd and I can't understand it.

I agree, it's just as shame you didn't quote me in context. 

Until then, I look forward to Vale's next intelligent dash into space!

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Agreed but do they exist within a reasonable Championship budget?

No idea, we'll leave that with Gregg. But the fact we have the 2nd least amount of shots on target per game in the league suggests that it isn't just a personnel issue, it's also a problem with the way JDT sets us up to play. 

[arbitro]

Did anybody hear officially why Markanday wasn't in the match day squad yesterday? 

[Oldgregg86]

37 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Agreed but do they exist within a reasonable Championship budget?

Yeah with the right scouting

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Yeah with the right scouting

Rovers have a more extensive scouting set up than almost every team in this division. But even if they didn't, there are only a certain amount of players available to us within a specific budget. Better scouts aren't going to suddenly discover a player that nobody else has seen or thought of. At every game I attend there's 10+ scouts in attendance from clubs all round the UK and sometimes even the rest of the world. It's not an issue of discovery it's an issue of attraction, players aren't choosing Rovers over other clubs and a lot of that comes down to finance. We've got quite a small wage structure. 

[Oldgregg86]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Rovers have a more extensive scouting set up than almost every team in this division. But even if they didn't, there are only a certain amount of players available to us within a specific budget. Better scouts aren't going to suddenly discover a player that nobody else has seen or thought of. At every game I attend there's 10+ scouts in attendance from clubs all round the UK and sometimes even the rest of the world. It's not an issue of discovery it's an issue of attraction, players aren't choosing Rovers over other clubs and a lot of that comes down to finance. We've got quite a small wage structure. 

I agree but you asked do they exist and they do

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Did anybody hear officially why Markanday wasn't in the match day squad yesterday? 

A better question would be : Has anybody heard the real reason why Markanday wasn't in yesterdays squad.

[RoversTilliDie]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

We don't score our goal without Jack Vale's movement dragging Atkinson to the byline, pointing inside the gap and holding position.

We need a proficient goal scorer, one who scores reguarly. I know we have BBD when he's on form but he will need replacing if he leaves. Bradley Dack looks a bit more like his old self these days, good news for Rovers.

[Sweaty Gussets]

30 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Did anybody hear officially why Markanday wasn't in the match day squad yesterday? 

On Markanday: “He felt not 100 per cent yesterday so we didn’t take any risks with him.

“We trained yesterday in Birmingham, he came with us, but he felt something and wasn’t 100 per cent so we didn’t want to take any risks.”

[RoversTilliDie]

58 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

I haven't micro-analysed him, and I understand if your frustration is that players are written off too easily - I agree. His goal at WHU showed Vale has something. However, we're clutching at straws if we're biggin' up a 10 yards slow trundle sideways towards the touchline as evidence of his worth to the team!

BBD is off form. He's becoming a waste of space like he was in the 2nd half of last season. 

JDT needs his own players. 

What about when BBD is on form 20 plus goals a season. He was left out the team last week for personal reasons, maybe this and doubt to wether he's staying or going in the transfer window are affecting his game. An on form BBD is a must for Rovers.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Scores goals whenever there's a chance. Proven that in the 21's and at West Ham and Norwich. He can finish. His movement is top, he can drop in and play. He's not the finished article and he's far from a Top 6 Championship goalscorer. But I don't believe we have any better. Sam Gallagher is infuriating to watch and does much more wrong, but occasionally comes out with a Middlesbrough away performance. 

As I keep saying, there's clearly a player in Vale somewhere - he's tidy with the ball at his feet, his movement is decent and he's taken to nice goals in the FA cup.

However he's weak in possession and lethargic out of it. If he just fought to retain the ball, rather than being easily brushed off it, and sprinted to pressure / run into space he'd be much more likely to succeed as a pro footballer.

[Sweaty Gussets]

10 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

What about when BBD is on form 20 plus goals a season. He was left out the team last week for personal reasons, maybe this and doubt to wether he's staying or going in the transfer window are affecting his game. An on form BBD is a must for Rovers.

Yeah, but he isn't on form, which was my point. No disputing he's a very good player at our level but he hasn't scored for about 10 matches and he's missing the few chances he's getting. 

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Vale has scored every chance he's had

Blackpool away?

To be fair he was about as useful as Gallagher yesterday. Both are generally shite. It makes no difference to me where they have come from before they find their way to our starting xi, whether it’s a big money signing or academy.

Brereton was also Shute but has far more credit in the bank than those 2. Admittedly, Gally has been banking here much longer than Jack.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hasta

[rigger]

17 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

What about when BBD is on form 20 plus goals a season. He was left out the team last week for personal reasons, maybe this and doubt to wether he's staying or going in the transfer window are affecting his game. An on form BBD is a must for Rovers.

The problem being Diaz has not been "in-form" for over a year. He just has the odd good game.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Vale has scored every chance he's had

Give over.  If you are arguing he's only had 2 chances and scored them both then that clearly highlights

1) His positional awareness  must be non-existent. 

2) A complete lack of ability to create a shooting opportunity for himself. 

[arbitro]

31 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

On Markanday: “He felt not 100 per cent yesterday so we didn’t take any risks with him.

“We trained yesterday in Birmingham, he came with us, but he felt something and wasn’t 100 per cent so we didn’t want to take any risks.”

I guessed it was a knock or something like that otherwise I think he might have started. He was good in his half hour at Rotherham as he was the following day in the under 21's which Tomasson saw.

[BankEnd Rover]

52 minutes ago, rigger said:

A better question would be : Has anybody heard the real reason why Markanday wasn't in yesterdays squad.

?? 

[goozburger]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘But, but Mark Atkins said’ is the new ‘he needs a run of games’

Knock Super Atko at your peril. I like a lot of what the man has to say.

[Mattyblue]

Me too. But I certainly don’t just parrot what ex players, managers, DofFs say on a forum instead of my own views.

What’s the point of that on a fans message board?

Edited January 22, 2023 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

So fans who watch Vale every week have less opinion on someone who watches him once in a blue moon? And yes vale was non existent yesterday 

I watched Rovers every single week and if you look at the goal yesterday he plays a part in creating the space for Morton to run into and the cross to Dack. 

How do you know Mark Atkins doesn't watch them regularly? 

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

We don't score our goal without Jack Vale's movement dragging Atkinson to the byline, pointing inside the gap and holding position.

I made this point this morning but several people have actually overlooked his involvement in the goal. 

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

The only movement with Vale is his bowel movement.  And he was problem running away from the ball because its like a grenade to him

Shocking comments

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Scores goals whenever there's a chance. Proven that in the 21's and at West Ham and Norwich. He can finish. His movement is top, he can drop in and play. He's not the finished article and he's far from a Top 6 Championship goalscorer. 

Vale is a good finisher. Create chances and he will score goals. You have made several quality points on Vale and I agree with every single one. 

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I listened to the game on Radio Lancs with Bayes and Mark Atkins commentary team. 

I have watched the extend highlights this morning on the game on Sky Sports Football channel this morning. I usually watched the game on Sunday Morning on Rovers TV. 

I think we need a striker with pace and box striker who can poach and score goals

Rovers legend Mark Atkins gave his opinion on Vale performance so I will take that one thanks. 

On Vale, if you look at Rovers' goal its his movement out wide then drags Bristol City defender out wide creating the space for Morton to run in and cross for Dack to score. 

5 Rovers players should have done much better including Vale, Morton, Ayala, Kaminski and Scott Wharton. Vale should have fouled him but after that Morton is weak in the challenge and Ayala should have done better then half turned his body in trying to block the shot. Kaminski should have done better with not pushing it out to the middle of the penalty box. Scott Wharton didn't react to Kaminski mistake. Only 2 players who did which was Dack and Pickering. 

As I said, you had no constructive reason to suggest that I was being over critical of Vale having at the time not seen the game.

He may aswell have not played, and until you actively say what Vale offers to the team, at which point a normal debate can occur, then I will presume that the riddles you talk in about him are covering the fact that deep down you know that he offers nothing.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

We don't score our goal without Jack Vale's movement dragging Atkinson to the byline, pointing inside the gap and holding position.

Absolute rubbish. He slowly stepped out of the way, if you are crediting players for literally moving then all 11 players warrant praise in the goal.

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

There seems to me to be a bias towards pointing negativity at our own players who we've "developed". People seem to jump to those players rather than the ones we've spent money on, or have already "made it" and I don't really get that. In my world, it should be the other way around. The heaviest criticism should come to the players who should know better, who should BE better by this stage. Sam Gallagher has probably 200 professional games to his name, it's fair to expect more of him.

What paranoid nonsense. There is pretty much a widespread desire on here for Adam Wharton to play more games on here than he does. Nyambe was rated on here probably in excess of his ability. Hirst was criticised just as much if not moreso than Vale. There are plenty of examples that prove that your theory is totally fabricated.

Gallagher is criticised as much as anyone but as limited as he is, he is quite a few levels above Vale who couldn't score goals in non league last season. Of course he is more experienced and I accept that but he is just a bang average Championship forward who will get you close to if not double figures in a season from a mixture of attacking players.

Like chaddy, can you tell me anything that Vale offers to the team when he plays?