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roversfan99

Rovers v Hull

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Now can someone please go to Brockhall and wrap our back 5 in cotton wool. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Based on what for this potential signing? Doesn't look interested at Hull and if he after what wages wise he wont be here. 

I would be looking for right winger in the summer. Deffo not Maddison tho. 

Well Armstrong didn't stay wide yesterday when we went 4-3-3 last night. Let him move around the pitch. 

He didnt do much but to say he didnt look interested is just going out of your way to try and justify the non signing. Lets not pretend that he wouldnt be an improvement on Bennett or a striker in a wide role. Not even necessarily saying that we should sign specifically him in the summer.

If we start playing 433 it opens up the possibility of strikers regularly shunted out wide. 442 (with Downing and Rothwell wide from next week) just gives us the rigidity of 2 banks of 4, and it gives us the chance to play a second central striker in the absence of our number 10s and give Armstrong a freer role.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

"Easily" get into our side due to his "track record" steady on man. We aren't talking about Messi here. A better than average league 1 player who has ended up at a dreadful Hull side. 

Last night we had Elliott Bennett on the left hand side, lets not pretend that a player with the statistical output of goals and assists that Maddison has consistently had wouldnt improve on him. It remains to be seen whether he will make the step up and I dont think hes going to tear up the League but youd rather see him wide than Bennett, than Samuel, than Brereton, than Gallagher.

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There are a lot of assumptions about Maddisons personality which seem to have snowballed from very little. His former big mouthed chairman was very stubborn about his price for a while and 2.5m is quite a lot for a League 1 player, think thats the reason why he didnt move. Lots of wild speculation but aside from aforementioned attention seeking chairman suggesting that part of his move choice was financial (as if thats a unique and dreadful thing!) I have not seen anything else to suggest he has such a disruptive personality. All wild fabricated speculation unless i have missed something?

Im glad he didnt do anything yesterday and dont think hes going to be the second coming or replace a player like Bowen but he would have almost certainly improved us in a weak area. Theres no need to go out of your way to try and exaggerate and speculate to defend our lack of signings by making him into this lay about with a terrible character constantly causing disruption!

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He didnt do much but to say he didnt look interested is just going out of your way to try and justify the non signing. Lets not pretend that he wouldnt be an improvement on Bennett or a striker in a wide role. Not even necessarily saying that we should sign specifically him in the summer.

If we start playing 433 it opens up the possibility of strikers regularly shunted out wide. 442 (with Downing and Rothwell wide from next week) just gives us the rigidity of 2 banks of 4, and it gives us the chance to play a second central striker in the absence of our number 10s and give Armstrong a freer role.

Last night we had Elliott Bennett on the left hand side, lets not pretend that a player with the statistical output of goals and assists that Maddison has consistently had wouldnt improve on him. It remains to be seen whether he will make the step up and I dont think hes going to tear up the League but youd rather see him wide than Bennett, than Samuel, than Brereton, than Gallagher.

If we turned down both Ronaldos due to their denim wear some would retrospectively say they were no good for us

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9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He didnt do much but to say he didnt look interested is just going out of your way to try and justify the non signing. Lets not pretend that he wouldnt be an improvement on Bennett or a striker in a wide role. Not even necessarily saying that we should sign specifically him in the summer.

If we start playing 433 it opens up the possibility of strikers regularly shunted out wide. 442 (with Downing and Rothwell wide from next week) just gives us the rigidity of 2 banks of 4, and it gives us the chance to play a second central striker in the absence of our number 10s and give Armstrong a freer role.

Last night we had Elliott Bennett on the left hand side, lets not pretend that a player with the statistical output of goals and assists that Maddison has consistently had wouldnt improve on him. It remains to be seen whether he will make the step up and I dont think hes going to tear up the League but youd rather see him wide than Bennett, than Samuel, than Brereton, than Gallagher.

Debatable. Depends on his application. Bennett and Gallagher work very hard. If Maddison wouldn't match that output, plus the step up means he wouldn't have the goals or assists, then he wouldn't be much use. He is unproven at this level. 

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5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are a lot of assumptions about Maddisons personality which seem to have snowballed from very little. His former big mouthed chairman was very stubborn about his price for a while and 2.5m is quite a lot for a League 1 player, think thats the reason why he didnt move. Lots of wild speculation but aside from aforementioned attention seeking chairman suggesting that part of his move choice was financial (as if thats a unique and dreadful thing!) I have not seen anything else to suggest he has such a disruptive personality. All wild fabricated speculation unless i have missed something?

Im glad he didnt do anything yesterday and dont think hes going to be the second coming or replace a player like Bowen but he would have almost certainly improved us in a weak area. Theres no need to go out of your way to try and exaggerate and speculate to defend our lack of signings by making him into this lay about with a terrible character constantly causing disruption!

So the chairman's word isn't good enough for you? Mmm, ok then. I think you are the one refusing to acknowledge the issues. The fact he has ended up at Hull is telling. It was being made out he was a super player, I am sure if he sets the world alight at Hull, a few will be back on pointing out we should have signed him, Mowbray messed up etc etc. As things stand, he doesn't look anything .Unproven at this level and joining a club in free fall, not even a promotion chasing side. Very, very telling. 

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Maddison might have had a poor game last night but that doesn't mean squat. He'd have been a handy player to have around our squad he's shown what he can do in the past.

Wouldn't have wanted to overpay for him though so it's not one to cry about either way now really. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Debatable. Depends on his application. Bennett and Gallagher work very hard. If Maddison wouldn't match that output, plus the step up means he wouldn't have the goals or assists, then he wouldn't be much use. He is unproven at this level. 

I wouldn't use Bennett as an example of anything, shit footballer, no physicality, no pace, but a mean fist pump eh? Working hard is a given

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I wouldn't use Bennett as an example of anything, shit footballer, no physicality, no pace, but a mean fist pump eh? Working hard is a given

It's a given, but not all players do it 

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1 hour ago, DaveyB said:

Hull were poor, yes. And it's true to say that we might not have won so comfortably against a better side.

But last night could/should have been 5 or 6 nil, and I'm not sure what else Rovers could have done (except obviously taking a few more of their chances). Certainly very far from a 'very poor' performance as you described 

Were you happy at 70 minutes? Added to that the performance against Fulham and it’s happening again. Happy we got the win but now need to back that up against Charlton 

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That was Waltons 10th clean sheet this season. If possible I would sign him in the summer. If not I would go for Rotherhams Daniel Iversen.Insert other media

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Just now, neophox said:

That was Waltons 10th clean sheet this season. If possible I would sign him in the summer. If not I would go for Rotherhams Daniel Iversen.Insert other media

He’s shown plenty of recent improvement ,  however he like raya has a mistake in him and unlike them I don’t have faith in our coaching to iron it out 

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21 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So the chairman's word isn't good enough for you? Mmm, ok then. I think you are the one refusing to acknowledge the issues. The fact he has ended up at Hull is telling. It was being made out he was a super player, I am sure if he sets the world alight at Hull, a few will be back on pointing out we should have signed him, Mowbray messed up etc etc. As things stand, he doesn't look anything .Unproven at this level and joining a club in free fall, not even a promotion chasing side. Very, very telling. 

I wouldn't pay to much attention to the Peterborough chairman he seems to love publicity and he is certainly fond of his own voice. Maddison has gone from being picked up on a free at a National League team 5 years ago to now being worth £2.5 Million and playing in the Championship. That say's to me that he's got something about him as plenty of talented players in the past have been released from a academy and ended up in the lower leagues and despite having plenty of ability they have not had the mentality to get themselves back up the leagues.

I wouldn't judge him too harshly on his performance last night he was playing just his third game in what looked a poor team. I thought Hull were the worst side we played last season and I think they have probably been as well this season. Bowen was what kept them away from the drop zone and they need Maddison to fill that void which is no easy task as I think Bowen was the best player in the division.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Did he beat Bell repeatedly? Ya, I don't get people booing Maddison , because we were never really that interested. As for Bauer, well he straight up picked PNE so whilst I wouldn't do it myself, at least it makes a bit more sense. 

As for Maddison, did you not expect him to move to a better club? I recall you mentioning WBA. The way Hull look, he could be back in League 1 next season. 

He's a good player, didn't really get much chance to show it playing in that Hull side who had 30% possession...

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27 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

If we turned down both Ronaldos due to their denim wear some would retrospectively say they were no good for us

I'm trying to work out if you genuinely meant denim wear or meant demeanour?

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9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So the chairman's word isn't good enough for you? Mmm, ok then. I think you are the one refusing to acknowledge the issues. The fact he has ended up at Hull is telling. It was being made out he was a super player, I am sure if he sets the world alight at Hull, a few will be back on pointing out we should have signed him, Mowbray messed up etc etc. As things stand, he doesn't look anything .Unproven at this level and joining a club in free fall, not even a promotion chasing side. Very, very telling. 

 

16 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Debatable. Depends on his application. Bennett and Gallagher work very hard. If Maddison wouldn't match that output, plus the step up means he wouldn't have the goals or assists, then he wouldn't be much use. He is unproven at this level. 

What word? What specific thing did their chairman say that indicated that he had a really bad attitude? He might well do, but it just seems to be unsubstantiated myth that has escalated from very little. The only thing was an insinuation that his choice of Hull over Charlton was partly down to money as well as location. Is that a particularly bad thing? Do you think most footballers or indeed people in general are not influenced by money? If I had the choice of 2 lower Championship sides that I had no affiliation to, money would be a big deciding factor in my choice too. Doesn't affect the effort that I would go on to put in.

I dont think that Maddison was necessarily a specific individual that had to be signed, we just needed general reinforcements especially capable of playing in wide areas. But his track record albeit at a lower League is very, very impressive.

He has struggled to get a move away from Peterborough because he had a clause of 2.5m in his contract and their chairman refused to budge, and that is quite a lot of money for a League 1 player especially considering that the best teams in the League possibly would look elsewhere rather than into League 1.

There seems to be a lot of revisionism and desperation to justify not signing anyone, not even specifically him. Not only are you not assuming that he can make the step up (undoubtedly a big unknown at this point, I have never said otherwise) but now he also wouldnt be willing to put effort in either, and could be even less effective (I am not sure that its possible) than the likes of Bennett and Gallagher out wide, especially the latter who is being shunted there even though he is a striker, when neither offer any attacking threat at all, pretty important as a wide man.

If their chairman has specifically said that he had a bad attitude then please feel free to show me the tweets, or alternatively wherever else you have seen that he has attitude problems, and it isnt just an assumption. He was publically delighted when he ended up staying in the summer, saying how good he was, so you have to appreciate that he always has a PR spin in mind anyway, but I am still in the dark as to why he has this reputation as this disinterested, unmotivated coaster that we did well to avoid.

 

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38 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Someone can quote you and then change the text within the quote. See the text added above.

Therefore someone could quote you, and then paste somebody else post into the quote box. Not sure why anyone would do that though.

Thanks Hasta for that. I do recognise the post which was attributed to me and I have a strong feeling it appeared after the Fulham game but I can’t remember who wrote it. Even weirder that it turned up in the Hull thread.

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

What word? What specific thing did their chairman say that indicated that he had a really bad attitude? He might well do, but it just seems to be unsubstantiated myth that has escalated from very little. The only thing was an insinuation that his choice of Hull over Charlton was partly down to money as well as location. Is that a particularly bad thing? Do you think most footballers or indeed people in general are not influenced by money? If I had the choice of 2 lower Championship sides that I had no affiliation to, money would be a big deciding factor in my choice too. Doesn't affect the effort that I would go on to put in.

I dont think that Maddison was necessarily a specific individual that had to be signed, we just needed general reinforcements especially capable of playing in wide areas. But his track record albeit at a lower League is very, very impressive.

He has struggled to get a move away from Peterborough because he had a clause of 2.5m in his contract and their chairman refused to budge, and that is quite a lot of money for a League 1 player especially considering that the best teams in the League possibly would look elsewhere rather than into League 1.

There seems to be a lot of revisionism and desperation to justify not signing anyone, not even specifically him. Not only are you not assuming that he can make the step up (undoubtedly a big unknown at this point, I have never said otherwise) but now he also wouldnt be willing to put effort in either, and could be even less effective (I am not sure that its possible) than the likes of Bennett and Gallagher out wide, especially the latter who is being shunted there even though he is a striker, when neither offer any attacking threat at all, pretty important as a wide man.

If their chairman has specifically said that he had a bad attitude then please feel free to show me the tweets, or alternatively wherever else you have seen that he has attitude problems, and it isnt just an assumption. He was publically delighted when he ended up staying in the summer, saying how good he was, so you have to appreciate that he always has a PR spin in mind anyway, but I am still in the dark as to why he has this reputation as this disinterested, unmotivated coaster that we did well to avoid.

 

I would say there is reverse revisionism too. For example if @chaddyrovers was saying Maddison would have been a great signing, I have a sneaky feeling some of you would be making the exact same points I am now to counteract him. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would say there is reverse revisionism too. For example if @chaddyrovers was saying Maddison would have been a great signing, I have a sneaky feeling some of you would be making the exact same points I am now to counteract him. 

Tbh though, Chaddy thought BB was a steal, so him not rating Madisson after a single appearance means he will probably go on to do well. 

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2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would say there is reverse revisionism too. For example if @chaddyrovers was saying Maddison would have been a great signing, I have a sneaky feeling some of you would be making the exact same points I am now to counteract him. 

You havent answered my question. If there is suggestions that Maddison is a bad character, he doesnt work hard etc, these assumptions surely have some sort of foundation. At the moment, they seem like wild assumptions made to justify not signing him, even though it was specifically Maddison that was suggested, we just needed a couple of attacking players notably a wide man in general.

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

Those weren’t boo’s aimed at Maddison, it was Tattooooooooooo - just letting him know why we didn’t sign him 

Sounds like it was job done last night. Beating a team at home who Rovers were supposed to beat.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

You havent answered my question. If there is suggestions that Maddison is a bad character, he doesnt work hard etc, these assumptions surely have some sort of foundation. At the moment, they seem like wild assumptions made to justify not signing him, even though it was specifically Maddison that was suggested, we just needed a couple of attacking players notably a wide man in general.

Well the not working hard piece is easy, obviously people get that from watching him. Is that fair enough?

The bad behavior, ya speculation pretty much, but it's not an accusation I have really made. 

Why has he ended up at Hull on loan with a potential free transfer in the summer if he is so good? Surely a team chasing promotion would have gone for him? Why do you think that is? 

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23 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

He’s shown plenty of recent improvement ,  however he like raya has a mistake in him and unlike them I don’t have faith in our coaching to iron it out 

Thing is, every keeper has a mistake in them inc most premier league keepers, Man U, Liverpool etc, the difference is, if they make one mistake the team is good enough to win the game, and it’s forgotten.

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5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well the not working hard piece is easy, obviously people get that from watching him. Is that fair enough?

To go from being released from Newcastle's academy to playing in the National League to 5 years down the line be playing in the Championship takes plenty of hard work. In the National League system or even lower down than that in the Northern Premier or Northwest Counties, there are plenty of talented players who have like Maddison have been released from good academies but very few make it back up the league. To do that takes commitment, hard work and a good attitude.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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