There are better managers out there than Tony Mowbray, but Steve Kean is basically the anti christ where our club is concerned. I honestly think any comparisons are a gigantic stretch. Mowbray has his flaws and I regularly point them out, but Kean is in a different universe.

Comparisons between TM and Kean are weak at best. For all Mowbray's faults he is an actual manager rather than a coach pretending to be in charge. Agency links are what they are but Kean was a complete and utter fraud as a manager, whereas Mowbray is just one of many average managers with flaws he is unable and/or unwilling to change. Even on his worst day TM is a better manager than Kean could ever hope to be. Also unlike Kean I don't sense any outright deceit from Mowbray, only a stubbornness and questionable ethos at times when it comes to tactics and team selection. The only time I think Mowbray has not been entirely truthful is the 'defenders are coming' debacle where something seems to have prevented him from fulfilling that promise, but we never learned whether it was direct Venky mandate or other issues. Two loans towards the end of the window was not what anybody was hoping for and one of those loans only lasted a month or so before being injured for the rest of the season. Granted there was also the Mulgrew situation which was odd to say the least, and I still don't think we've heard the truth about that. By and large though I think Mowbray is honest with the fans about most things, even if at times very frustrating to listen to, whereas Kean came up with a new lie every time he was interviewed - to the point where we had the classic #SteveKeanLies trend on Twitter for a week or so.

Quite hard to reconcile those statements with looking at it objectively when there's plenty of room to disagree. Even if we were to accept the basic principle of those statements as true, the difference in scale between the two is enormous. There's plenty of room to criticise Mowbray and even want shut of him without throwing around ridiculous comparisons to Kean.

She’ll say “Tyrone that film was f*cking brilliant you c*nt”

Suprised the Venkys are trusting Tony with a 15 million striker deal after Brereton and Gallagher

Hands up who'd kick out Mowbray and bring in Pearson?

So we give up striving for a better manager just because we missed our chance with Warnock? Stick with TM and sure, we will probably bumble along for a little while and become a regular mid-table Championship club but with our debt, there has to be more urgency. The whole nice guy ethos is reflected via our manager and our team and it is to the detriment of results. Be a good pro, kiss ass a bit, get to training early and leave late and you are are nailed on to start despite ability or form. I just feel that TM is not the man to take us up a notch...his teams generally have a soft underbelly. We need winners, not pros happy to be where they are and to plod along (ala Bennett, Mugrew, Evans, Smallwood). We need hungry players that aspire to playing in the PL, not happy to sit on a nice contract at a mid-table CHamps club. I think we have some youth coming through that will help with this but I think there are plenty of managers out there that could do a better job with them.

Well that was entertaining, though in some respects I wish it wasn't as we almost made a pig's ear of it! A great start when we were looking lethal, some of the interplay amongst the forwards was very fine indeed. Their free kick; it couldn't have been more in the corner, it kept low and was judged to perfection. I can see why Walton is being criticised as it had to travel a long way, but sometimes you have to credit the scorer rather than diss the keeper. Had Walton saved it, it would've been a top drawer save. Thereafter we still looked the better side & should have got another 2 or 3 before Rothwell's effort after a sustainedspell of pressure on their goal (well deserved on today's showing from Rothwell). Then we just capitulated, inexplicably. We conceded to two good headers, the first was bad enough, but for the second, what was Travis thinking? He'd just got away with overplaying in his own box a couple of minutes earlier, then did so again calamitously. He needs to cut that out. For a time we were on the ropes, but then got our composure back & finally got the 4th goal & 3 points that we deserved overall; a fine cross & finish it was too. I thought Carter look excellent, albeit he was not pushed too hard. He wasn't in any way to blame for the goals, and he looks a unit. Best compliment I could pay him is that it didn't really feel like Tosin wasn't playing. JRC looked competent but is obviously really itching to play further forwards. Travis was good bar his kamikaze tendencies, Johnson Ok, but Rothwell, Holtby, Arma & BB were excellent. Just a little bit more clinical please. At first I thought the subs struggled. Davenport especially (who I'd hoped would start) looked off the pace. But we got the composure back, started playing neatly again (Buckley looked v tidy), then Chapman - who played like the Chapman we remember in his little cameo - put in a superb cross inviting Gallagher to put his head where it hurts with a great diving header (see Herbie's photo earlier). Would've been great to see Vale hit that shot 6 inches lower to round things off. There's real promise in that young squad that was on show today. Defensively there's work to do to be more solid & cut out stupid, naive mistakes (I guess that comes with youth) and offensively we need to be more clinical. But i saw some exciting signs today, albeit in a game in which there was nothing huge at stake.

A world away really? They finished just 4 points ahead of us last season and they sold three of their key players from last season. The difference is that they have looked to go on and progress whereas Mowbray has looked to stay treading water.

As far as i know Venky's have never put a penny of their own cash into us. It has been loans and mortgages from the Bank of India using the 1000's of acres of prime land and real estate they own as collateral for these loans. This is all well and good so long as the land assets continue to increase, to enable them to remortgage every couple of years and they pay the interest payments. Issue arise such as 4 years ago and our relegation from premier league when they can't remortgage quickly or land prices have not gone up sufficiently. This is when, such as during the last summer of Gary Bowyer and the Coyle summer, when we had difficulty paying our wage bill on a number of occasions in those 2 seasons. So long as the loans stay with Venky's everything is ok, if the loans are transferred to the UK holding company then that is when we will be put into administration and quickly. This summer i expect it to be very tight again, as land prices have fallen and the Bank of India is calling in loans and not lending at present.

Watford about to sack Pearson, according to the BBC. Seems daft in my book but Watford seem to change manager every 5 minutes. Pearson's a man who knows how to win promotion from the Championsip and is a definite upgrade on Mowbray. Like Warnock, a no-brainer to me....

Having seen Luton several times they are a hard working, robust side with big lads up front and in defensive positions. I am not really concerned about Lutons or Wigans points but from our perspective it would do the seven Academy players we had out yesterday the world of good to play in this game. I don't want any sentimental team selections from Mowbray using players who won't be here next season. Our future is these youngsters.

What a strange day! Plenty of sublime, plenty of ridiculous. Called the Brereton goal early on in this thread and won a nice little bet. I think a lot of the praise he is getting today shows just how low a bar he set for himself. There was improvement, but there was also still some comically poor play. I was really impressed with Gallaghers goal today - what a ball from Chapman (who up until that point I thought was turning in a horrific cameo). Love a bit of proper wing play. Things came off for Rothwell today. Reading stood off him and he punished them. When he gets closed down quick he runs out of ideas. Promising stuff though. Their first was sublime. What a free kick that is! No blame for Walton there. I’d actually be really happy if we went for it with these youngsters. And I mean really went for it. Regular game time for Carter, Buckley, JRC, Wharton, Davenport... Put a massive show of faith in them and built our team around them. They have all played a lot of football with each other, so any bedding in should be relatively pain free. I’m sure we’d get the odd hammering, but long term it could work. There would also be some relief of the financial burden, and it would be exciting! Still need to invest in a good keeper though.

I'm pretty sure you were telling us all to get behind Coyle FFS.

Don't be so feckin stupid. Just imagine, you are in hospital, lying in a bed and fighting for your life and the one consultant who can save you is a Burnley fan................ I don't give a monkey's about race, colour, creed, religion or football allegiance - can they do a feckin job and improve you. If the answer is yes, then bring them in!

Mowbray seemingly wasn’t under any pressure to sell Raya. He wanted shut, or at the very least saw him as expendable, we got a pathetic amount for him and failed to bring in a better replacement for whatever reason. Before anyone says “but Raya wanted to go” that is absolutely no defence for anyone at the club... If players are seeing Brentford as a step up from Rovers that’s absolutely damning of the entire management setup and ownership. Mowbray isn’t our biggest issue, but I’d replace him with Pearson in a heartbeat. Sadly it’s never happening.

Mowbray took over a West Brom team with quality already in its ranks plus he sold several for good money and was allowed to reinvest. They also had the luxury of parachute money for wages etc. Different world altogether than here there's no resemblance so it shouldn't really be held up as anything. He also did it in relatively short time then oversaw relegation again. It was a decade or so ago and time has moved on. It ain't happening here under his watch for a variety of reasons some out of his control obviously. Crucially though even given the tools i don't think he's remotely bold enough or savvy enough anymore. I don't even think his remit here is promotion anyway that's why he's so comfortable. These lot and their advisors are wanting youth blooding, player value increasing and their own investments on players factoring in. First and foremost they want the conveyor belt of sales to recoup costs and transfers it's always only been a matter of time before that begins.

To be honest at 26 I don't think we can call Lenihan a youngster anymore. He should be entering the prime of his career at this point. By and large he's a solid Championship defender but at this point that is probably his limit. His best chance of playing in the PL is probably being promoted with a Championship club.

Let’s not pretend that we wouldn’t have Dyche at Rovers tomorrow.

We can see what’s in front of us though, if you want to take stats the one I worked out earlier is That since the restart Walton has faced 36 shots on target and conceded 15 times. So he’s let in 42% of shots on target in those 8 games, that’s shite. He May one day become an ok keeper but he’s average at best currently I know I’ve said it before and it’s anecdotal evidence but I have severe doubts about Benny Ben Benson, I just don’t see how he can have the lived experiences to coach a young goalkeeper

Sorry you didn't enjoy the win and the promise of some our youngsters. Personally, I had a very enjoyable afternoon watching it so, yes I suppose I must be easily pleased when I see Rovers win - to be honest it's never been any different for almost sixty years of watching now. The performances of our youngsters was an added bonus.

What's your point? We all know Raya has that in his locker, but he's still a superior keeper to Walton.

Chris, when you start giving straight answers you can start on your high horse. It’s hard to know which Chaddy I’m posting with from one month to the next.

That's what happens when you get up the side of teams. A deep cross from wide, left full back gets turned around watching play, Gallagher comes steaming in out of sight and gets the drop on the defender to head a good goal. You can play in front of teams all day long and not much happens, get their back four turned around and it's another story all together. Of course we'd usually prefer to play blokes out there who can't cross a ball or beat a full back with the ball at their feet so we don't create many chances like that one.

Seems nearly everyone agrees we need to play the youth and drop players that arnt going to be here next season. I also remember plenty of our fans raging at Huddersfield for something similar the year we went down even hoping they were to get relegated because of it. It’s a funny old game isn’t it

There are legitimate criticisms, and I accept that not everyone is going to have the same positive view of the manager as I do. I was pointing out that even if were to accept those similarities to be true (clearly not objective, but putting that aside) there's a world of difference between whatever degree of under-performance that we might arguably be going through presently and the unmitigated catastrophe of the Kean years. If I have shares in a company and they lose value, it's very easy for me to complain and apportion blame without comparing it to the Wall Street Crash.

Let’s look at it objectively. And it is impossible to compare their Championship records as Kean’s limited stats are better but had a better squad. Similarities: - Mowbray and Kean (we are told) come from the same agency stock - They are both happy to work for Venkys despite the apparent conditions - Both have been in charge when we were relegated - Both are unable to get the best out of their players - Both make excuses for failure and are never themselves culpable - Both have stayed/stay beyond the time they would have been allowed at any other club - Fanbase split and in both cases there were fans believing we would only end up with a worse manager so we shouldn’t change - even pointing to Kean’s start to the championship season. Differences: - Managerial experience in the UK (credibility) - Kean’s tenure was at the height of anti-Venkys feeling (possibly one of the causes of it) and fans cared enough to take a stand while Mowbray’s time is at the height of fan apathy (possibly one of the causes of it) and fans are turning away in droves - Perception of them as human beings / motives Some subjective musings: If we are to go along with the “there’s no point in changing” argument (as there has been no decent argument for keeping him based on his own record/performances/direction) then we have to accept the club is still just as rotten as when Kean was here and the current incumbent must be satisfied working in such conditions. The only plus for Mowbray (and by association Waggott) is that we will now finish higher than we did last season. 60pts (15th) vs 63-66pts (8th - 12th) On the one hand that could be called “progress” but as we have now just ended the FFP cycle (despite the COVID-19 deferral) and we are told the cupboard is bare (Mowbray blew all of the money on two players) then the counter-argument is that 8th is the absolute peak before the next rebuild. But some may say that Mowbray’s first year was promotion from League One, so the decision then is, do we believe that over the next three year cycle, starting with a championship platform, he will fare better? My view, based on his record and his stubborn misuse of players out of position and rotation and transfer policy is ‘no’ but others may say he is building for the future. I guess the acid test is whether he keeps our key players this Summer and shores up our goalkeeper and defence. Based on what happened last Summer and the lack of any change in January I don’t believe he will but that is the question for me. The next three years then: - Will Venkys keep footing the bills for the duration - let alone fund a promotion push? - Will Mowbray tell them to keep their powder dry? - Will we have any fans left if we are faced with watching this brand of football and mediocre WDL results for another three years? - Will it actually result in promotion? Clearly he is going to be given yet another transfer window so it will be interesting to see what happens. Even more telling will be if anything changes above Mowbray. If Venkys were given a target of reaching the play-offs and 70 points then objectively this is failure - is anyone culpable? Will we see a John Jensen style sacrifice in the coaching staff? The key difference between the Kean and Mowbray eras is that most fans have reached a point where they feel there is absolutely nothing they can do but watch, while not necessarily buying a ticket to do so. We all love the club but right now we have the owners, board and manager we deserve. If more people had stuck together to oust Kean while we were in the PL, maybe if the FF had been united in front of Balaji then we might be sat where Burnley are instead of heading down the Bolton Road.

Wish Rovers could get a Wilder type manager. Proper manager with no bullshit and proper tactics. Sheffield United are a team to follow. No 12 million pet projects or favourites in the team. Mowbray out.

His appearance was brief but I can tell Vale has a bit of intelligence about his play, sweet strike aside (unlucky not to score) I feel like he picked up pockets of space really well which is usually a very good sign. I do think Buckley will end up being cream of the crop out of our youngsters, real football brain and good technique to boot.

I honestly couldn’t give a flying f-uck where they came from as long as they improved the side. I have no time for Burnley Football Club, obviously, hope Dyche fecks off and they fall back down to whence they came. I rue the day they stumbled on him. But I just do not get disliking their players to such an extent you’d turn down quality footballers, they are just mercenaries that happen to be wearing a claret and blue shirt, instead of blue and white, they go where the best contract is. Always makes me laugh at Ewood: Opposing player comes to take a corner... ‘booooo!!!’ ’why we booing?’ ’Oh that’s Joe Bloggs, came off the bench for Burnley once whilst there on loan in 2007’ ’oh’

Mowbray with some interesting quotes: “Harry Chapman is sick of me moaning at him, ‘find the right position, find the ball’. When he’s on the pitch he has to have the ball, beat people, cross is in to the box." Today was one of, including in the Cup, 5 cameos hes had this season, never longer than 15-20 minutes. How is he meant to do that? Also about Sam Gallagher: "It’s not been tough, or challenging, but difficult, he hasn’t had as much end product as we’d have liked, but he’s tried really hard, he puts a massive amount of work in to every game and he has to get in to those positions, arrive like a steam train at the back stick and a bullet header. It hasn’t been the most productive period for him, I’ve spoken to him. For a lot of players they have to get settled, they have to feel part of an environment." Absolutely no acknowledgement as to how playing him wide so often will make getting headers between the post much harder. And bollocks about settling in, yes theres finding a house but hes been here before, he knows many of the players, its hardly as if hes joined an alien team in a far flung location.

Surely big cutbacks needed there with their squad. Very rich owners yes but piling more onto the losses and wages will cause chaos for them and FFP. Plus they've also got the costs of firing managers to account for. Parachute money will halve this summer. After 2 years down. I don't doubt you are correct they could easily afford it, as could Venkys, but surely they will have to reign it in a bit.

Klich was on the scrapheap until Bielsa came in. The perfect example of a player that he has transformed into a top Championship player.

Did you miss the signings of Brereton and Gallagher and their costs? Spoiler alert, they weren’t free....

Friedel never came for crosses... but then again he had defenders who would head a ball in front of him. Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on that. I think he was worth a lot more. And his stop gap replacement has been massively inferior.

My personal favourite is using another clubs failure to somehow justify our own failures as success. Well Bristol city have spent millions and we’re ahead of them long live Tony.

Here of his transfers for that season https://www.transfermarkt.com/west-bromwich-albion/transfers/verein/984/saison_id/2007 Bought players like Barnett, Brunt and Morrison, etc. Total 22 mill spend Sold players like Koumas, Ellington, Kamara, etc. Total 32 mill

All debt is owed to the owners so by putting themselves into administration is pointless, players will be let go, Brentford have proved by selling your assets doesn't always end bad, Recruitment needs to be right

Walton Nyambe Lenihan Tosin JRC Travis Johnson Gallagher Holtby Rothwell Armstrong Whilst I would like to see more of our young players given a chance I believe that we have a duty to those other sides battling relegation to play our regular first 11.

But Mowbray has shown nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of managing Premier League players. He had one season managing in the Premiership and finished bottom. He had an good squad of players at Celtic and failed badly. Mowbray is a mid table of the Championship manager.

Cowley has done a decent job there at what was a crisis club facing relegation to League One. Sorted their defence out. Wonder if he will be on the radar at Bristol City, Birmingham or Middlesbrough now. That chairman at Huddersfield is odd and not very popular with their fans.

Well we all know who Kean agent was Stuart so don't start rewriting History. The last 4 four managers have apparently from the same agency. What are these apparent conditions Stuart that these managers have to work in? Kean took us down in a full season in charge whilst Mowbray came in February. But Mowbray got us back up at the 1st attempt whilst Kean resigned in September in our 1st season in Championship. Funny enough his last game was lost to Tony Mowbray Boro team at Ewood Park on Friday 21st September. Mowbray has failed to get his best out of their players? have you forget Dack's scoring record since joining the club, Or Armstrong having his best scoring record since his days at Coventry on loan again under Mowbray. Or that the fact that He has got the best out of Lenihan and Travis this season and are now part of our best players. Mowbray has stay beyond his time that would have allowed at other club? Outrageous statement to me when you have no idea what others owners have done. So Stuart please can explain how you can come to make such a statement? Fanbase split? The fanbase might be split on here but if you read other social media sites plenty of support for Mowbray out there. Also I would point to @K-Hod post on fanbase support towards Mowbray. Have you heard any chants for Mowbray to be sack at the games you attended this season? You sit hear the dugout in the family stand so you would hear these chants? have they been any? Venky's have so far footing the bills. So what suggest they wont in the future? Mowbray ain't going to them to keep their powder dry but more the owners telling him his budget and Mowbray will get on with it. As Mowbray said yesterday post match interview the owners have to decide how we go forward whether they want to push for promotion by spending to push up into the top 6, or Bring through the young players or balance approach where we bring through our talented players and sign few players. Mowbray has said he has different transfer budget list of players we can sign so we will see. on Fans, they have to make their own decisions. Will you still be there Stuart supporting the club in 3 years time? Who says the Owners target was reaching the playoffs? Do you know this as fact? or was the owners looking for challenging for a playoff place and will they look at Dack injury costing us a place in that top 6 as a major factor like other posters have suggested like myself. Mowbray isn't Steve Kean type to throw his staff under the bus like he did. Do you think Mowbray would throw his staff under the bus? The fans forum have been united in front of Balaji? you mean the trip to India which some members spoke to Balaji about Kean's future?

It's all going to depend on how Luton handle the pressure. It may not technically be a 'must win' for Luton but they know a win is the absolute best chance they have of staying up and will obviously be aiming solely for that. We will be our usual selves with some good play and some bad play, and we'll give Luton opportunities to score as we do every team we play. It will be a case of whether Luton have the bottle to take those chances and put themselves on the front foot. If they don't then we have enough about us to punish them. A very interesting end to the season regardless and I'm glad we're involved in a match with some stakes rather than a dead-rubber.

Not a Tv series but I watched 3 Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri again last night on C4, went to the pictures to see it back in 2017. Absolutely superb film, I can't find enough superlatives to describe it, has you laughing one minute and crying the next. (Not me crying obviously, because I'm a tough working class Lancastrian ) Probably the best film I've seen in 10yrs, certainly rivals Django Unchained, both in my top 10 best films ever.

Yep. money on Luton for this one. A MUST WIN game for Luton who will be too hungry and have too much desire for us - a great result for them yesterday. Best thing Mowbray can do is pick a team with players with things to prove and who will bust a gut for us. Tear into them from first whistle and give it a feckin good go. Sadly, Mowbray being Mowbray, I doubt he will do this. I'd go with: Hilton or Fisher / Nyambe, Carter, Lenihan, Thompson / Chapman, Travis, Rothwell, Rankin-Costello / Brereton, Armstrong

Prior to Derby we were in a strong position to secure a play off place and what has followed has been utterly mediocre leavened by beating a Bristol City side that had lost its way, a very good win at Cardiff and nearly screwing up against Reading. We have leaked goals for fun. Mowbray mistakes are always going to cost us at least ten points a season so unless the Raos (and FFP is scrapped) are going to fund a squad good enough to get 90+ points, Premier League is impossible under Mowbray. The Academy is yielding results. Time to say thank you Tony and let Damien Johnson finish the job.

Good fuck em, both shite.

Nevermind the fact Gallagher was already here for a year before joining permanently. If there's one signing who'd take less settling in, it should be him.

Exactly. I just don't understand people's argument against this. You're paid handsomely, given a decent budget for this division, can pretty much do what you want without repercussion. What's not to like?! You just need to bake Madame the odd lemon drizzle here and there.