Thursday deadline.

[Garage Flower]

I think it’s fair to say we don’t have the money to sign strikers and wingers who are better than what we have so we’re in the loan market for those. If we can stay up this season using loanees that’s fine by me, we’ll look to bring in the right person next summer.

We’ve signed two midfielders which was an area we were clearly short in, both are young enough to get better and Mowbray has improved several players since his arrival.

If he feels he can spend what bit of a budget he does have on quality defenders as they’re cheaper than attacking players then we’re making progress.

We’ve been an absolute mess for years, finally someone comes in with a long term plan that isn’t throwing money around we don’t have and people are getting all negative again. He’s said time and time again it’s a slow build and he wants the right kind of players at the right age to build a better squad.

Give the bloke a chance he’s only had one full season here and get got us promoted. For me this season is about staying up. If he keeps us up maybe he’ll get a better budget next summer, unfortunately for us there’s fuck all we can do except wait and see. 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

 

I would have accepted it if they where honest about it.But we have been told all summer that we have a competitive budget, we will see some exciting talent coming in etc etc 

 

It's a tricky one. If Maggott (genius portmanteau) came back from India saying they'd been given enough to renew the contracts of our players but not much for permanent quality signings then everyone would have shrugged their shoulders and said 'typical Venky's'. However, that wouldn't have sold ST's or carried on the good vibe that has surrounded the club for the first time in nearly a decade. Understandable from that point of view.  The flip side is that once you start spouting about being happy with a  'competitive budget' and are 'excited' about the players you can bring in then it raises expectations beyond Mark Beevers, a Citeh junior and a bloke from Oxford Utd who had run down his contract.

Still, in Mowbray we trust? 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

7 minutes ago, Biz said:

It’s about wording “Mowbray got as many wrong as right”... it’s hard to say Leutwiler (brought in as a backup GK) or Caddis (backup RB) are “wrong” since they came to backup the main squad as cheap options. I agree they aren’t particular “right” either but it’s important to have that scope.

Weve spent actual fees/money on 3 players in the past 12 months and all of them will be of use in 18/19

I get what you're saying and squad fillers are just that however, take Dack out of the permanent signings and overall, they aren't great.  Loan signings on the other hand have on the whole been very successful.  

Devils advocate for a second.  If Mowbray does have a reasonable transfer/wage pot,  perhaps he is being spoiled for choice and is bottling a decision...so opting for loans instead?

 

 

[Neal]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

My guess will be Nmecha, Palmer and Armstrong on loan and a centre half permenant. 

[Ruaney]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

I wouldn't say disappointed but I would be frustrated more than anything. Just all of this competitive budget talk to end up with all of that just signal's a complete lack of understanding as to what is competitive. Knowing Armstrong is ready and available and wants to come back here and we want him but then to not even afford to buy him is laughable. £3mil may be too much for him? But if our budget WAS competitive we would be making a deal work for him.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

Yes, I'd say so.  No winger in there.  Now if you added Chapman or Armstrong  to that list as a permanent then that would be as good as I could have imagined

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

Very, seeing as that would leave us unbalanced and lacking width. And I dont want Gallagher back.

Seeing as Gallagher was mooted with a 7m move last week, safe to say that wont happen.

[J*B]

Prediction time... I reckon he's spending the majority of a budget on a striker and put Palmer and Nmecha on the wings.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not trying to bash Mowbray here. I've already said that his success in leading us to promotion vastly outweighs poor transfers and justified everything he did. He's in credit, significantly.

But coming back to those players he has brought in I think it is wrong to suggest that his recruitment has been brilliant and that he's revolutionised the club with it. As explained above the likelihood is that 7 of our 11 at Ipswich will be players who were here before he was. The 'big ones' of Mulgrew, Lenihan, Bennett and Graham were given debuts or in Lenihan's case given a central role under the very unpopular Coyle and Lambert.

Dack was a massive success and will probably make the owners a lot of money when they sell him, much more than the cost of our transfers over the last 4 years combined. That alone makes it even more odd that they won't fund Mowbray to a higher level. Surely they know that Dack has been a big success and will make millions in profit and they want some more of that from other signings? Surely they know that they won't ever profit from borrowing other club's players?

When Rhodes arrived he was unproven in the Championship and a gamble, particularly for the cash we paid, yet there was confidence he would do it as he had done it to an exceptional level for several years in League One. Almost immediately following his arrival it was clear he was going to score a lot of goals for us. Hopefully Samuel and Dack will follow and be good Championship players, but at the moment they aren't.

 

The quote you initially replied to was a post responding to a suggestion as many signings are "wrong" as "right". That is "bunkum" in my very honest opinion.

We both agree that many of the players who made the difference last season are the same lot who took us down the season before, but I think we differ on the relation of the impact new players had in that scenario. Likes of Bennett, Mulgrew, Raya and Nyambe look like they've been playing with Dack, Smallwood and the loans for years - that takes research, thought and effort in the office and training pitch. We let 12 leave last summer, we had hardly any preparation or time to react. In my book, thats a pretty successful ad professional rebuild.

We had a decent league one budget, which obviously helped - but he put the biggest chunk of it into Dack and he had the biggest impact by far, and that will likely (as you strangely put "make venkys money", that type of terminology is ridiculous in a scenario where our club "owes" their family an 8 figure sum, and is likely costing them another few million this year to keep it ticking over) be a huge profit, especially if he is a hit in the Championship. On that very recent and basic evidence, I'd suggest any delay in permanent transfer business this summer means that TM doesn't think he is getting value for money. I'd trust him on that.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

I wouldn't say disappointed but as Mowbray said, you don't build a club on loans. I'd rather buy Armstrong or Chapman than constantly sign players on loan then have to do it all again the following summer. Next season we'll probably have to replace Graham as well. Ipswich signed Harrison and Edwards this summer for a total of £1.5m. They'll both be worth a lot more next summer, just as Dack is worth 10 times than what we bought him for. But then Venky's always did do it on the cheep cheap. Nothing has changed there.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

Prediction time... I reckon he's spending the majority of a budget on a striker and put Palmer and Nmecha on the wings.

Rich Sharpe disagrees.

Edited July 30, 2018 by blueboy3333

[J*B]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Rich Sharpe disagrees.

Rich Sharpe may well be right. I'm predicting, not promising.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, J*B said:

Rich Sharpe may well be right. I'm predicting, not promising.

I didn't say you were.

[Neal]

They must be pretty confident of getting the deals they want done with this Bennet thing on twitter... Because a couple of signings certainly will not be a 'busy week'. 

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I get what you're saying and squad fillers are just that however, take Dack out of the permanent signings and overall, they aren't great.  Loan signings on the other hand have on the whole been very successful.  

Devils advocate for a second.  If Mowbray does have a reasonable transfer/wage pot,  perhaps he is being spoiled for choice and is bottling a decision...so opting for loans instead?

 

 

More than half the budget went on the one player who effectively made a lot of the difference. If you take half the budget out of any teams investment in a scenario where 12 players are leaving, you are going to impact the team!

Loans are something we can build an advantage with compared to the likes of Bolton, Preston and a few others in this league. Premier league clubs aren't sending their prized assets to just anyone - our academy and facilities will benefit us on that, so I think its going to be a key for our push up the league. We are also very close to Man City, United, Liverpool etc - I personally would be all over that - the constant bumping up of cash in the top level is dragging all the talent to the top 5's u23 teams.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

The only logical conclusion is that the money isn't there to bring in good enough players.

Exactly. We've been Venkyed again.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tom]

13 minutes ago, J*B said:

Prediction time... I reckon he's spending the majority of a budget on a striker and put Palmer and Nmecha on the wings.

That would work for me but Gallagher was meant to be valued at £7m a week or two back

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, Biz said:

More than half the budget went on the one player who effectively made a lot of the difference. If you take half the budget out of any teams investment in a scenario where 12 players are leaving, you are going to impact the team!

Loans are something we can build an advantage with compared to the likes of Bolton, Preston and a few others in this league. Premier league clubs aren't sending their prized assets to just anyone - our academy and facilities will benefit us on that, so I think its going to be a key for our push up the league. We are also very close to Man City, United, Liverpool etc - I personally would be all over that - the constant bumping up of cash in the top level is dragging all the talent to the top 5's u23 teams.

 

It was the manager who said that you can't build a club with loan signings. 

I have no problem with us loaning players but if they come in alongside permanent deals.

Are you not dissapointed that we have only spent roughly 400k this summer?

Do you not find it odd that the telegraph are suggesting that our only permanent signing will be a centre back?

[Pedro]

26 minutes ago, J*B said:

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed? 

I want Nuttall to stay and see what he can do. I also had hopes that Gladwin would add something. It seems like a weak mentality thing with him though.

[islander200]

Jack Harrison having a medical at Leeds.

Mckay close to joining Swansea for 500 k.

Fair enough Harrison is only a loan deal but McKay at 500 grand is a very good signing .

[pomster]

Was it not Armstrongs wages that was the stumbling block?

Nobody, even those supposedly itk know whats going on behind the scenes. I think possibly the main problem he's going to be having is the wage structure?

Has he's already said on numerous occasions it's not right to pay x player £x more than the players who got us promoted.

I also think he will be holding back £'s for the January window 

 

[JBiz]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

It was the manager who said that you can't build a club with loan signings. 

I have no problem with us loaning players but if they come in alongside permanent deals.

Are you not dissapointed that we have only spent roughly 400k this summer?

Do you not find it odd that the telegraph are suggesting that our only permanent signing will be a centre back?

I agree but we’re talking about adding 4/5 loans like last season to the squad, which actually helped hugely. I don’t mean the “Watford” style borrow a club. 

I’m not dissapointed about spending money because it guarantees absolutely nothing. I know proven quality costs a lot but take Rothwell for example, if he has a big impact for 6 months - that’s a free transfer potentially worth 10m+. It’s gone mental.

If one thing I am not worried or dissapointed about, it’s the squad as a whole. I’ve said all summer I think this teams better than the last one we had in the championship, and that’s without any signings. I’m also convinced the management will get the most of any budget they are given after last seasons transfer business.

Just to add - I would obviously love the Rao’s to stump up more cash, but that, FFP, share capital and the continuation of our academy is a different discussion entirely.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Biz

[islander200]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

I agree but we’re talking about adding 4/5 loans like last season to the squad, which actually helped hugely. I don’t mean the “Watford” style borrow a club. 

I’m not dissapointed about spending money because it guarantees absolutely nothing. I know proven quality costs a lot but take Rothwell for example, if he has a big impact for 6 months - that’s a free transfer potentially worth 10m+. It’s gone mental.

If one thing I am not worried or dissapointed about, it’s the squad as a whole. I’ve said all summer I think this teams better than the last one we had in the championship, and that’s without any signings. I’m also convinced the management will get the most of any budget they are given after last seasons transfer business.

We are a week away from the start of the season and I would say one injury away(Graham)from being in a relegation battle.

Could accept loan signings if our "competitive" budget had to go on a striker which left us short on funds. 

What I can't understand is if we are only bringing in 1 perm,then why are we spending what little funds we have on an area in centre half where we are well stocked. 

If Mowbray didn't think Downing was good enough to step in why was he signed on a permanent deal in the first place?

[AAK]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

We are a week away from the start of the season and I would say one injury away(Graham)from being in a relegation battle.

Could accept loan signings if our "competitive" budget had to go on a striker which left us short on funds. 

What I can't understand is if we are only bringing in 1 perm,then why are we spending what little funds we have on an area in centre half where we are well stocked. 

If Mowbray didn't think Downing was good enough to step in why was he signed on a permanent deal in the first place?

Exactly my thoughts in respect of Downing. He probably isn't good enough for the championship so why sign him, unless it really was a cheap deal.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

We are a week away from the start of the season and I would say one injury away(Graham)from being in a relegation battle.

Could accept loan signings if our "competitive" budget had to go on a striker which left us short on funds. 

What I can't understand is if we are only bringing in 1 perm,then why are we spending what little funds we have on an area in centre half where we are well stocked. 

If Mowbray didn't think Downing was good enough to step in why was he signed on a permanent deal in the first place?

You’re basing this on Rich Sharpe? Don’t get me wrong I think he’s pretty good but I always prefer to see what happens with transfers and not rush to cement rumours - even Palmer isn’t confirmed yet and that’s a Sky one.

Id hope the priority is a winger personally. I’d start the season with Graham/Samuel/Nuttall for that one lone striker role and be quite comfortable, but then rather concerned that our only wide players are Bennett and Conway! I know he wants to play Rothwell further up and has used Samuel out wide, but we need some more in wide area imo.